Galaxy Brain

On the self +Hp, sure. On the ally +hp powers you can waste these depending on the player so absorb is better. Kinda subjective, I think it isnt used enough.

I support @oedipus_tex's suggestion for a chance of critical-drainage 🙂

There are several consolidation threads such as Powerset Recycling, Consolidated Difficulty, Knockback Attack, and the Mastermind Suggestions thread. Topics related to these continuously pop up, and it would be nice to have those threads and more stickied to have the conversations be organized in one spot 🙂

Turn Crane Kick into a conditional cone: if you trigger the knockback, you deal a line of damage as the target is flung back into the crowd.

Chiming in with more Bot/Elec testing since the removal of Sparky, the set is still very very tanky and I like that, and having a bit more to do per mob is nice. That said, I kinda miss the little guy lol. Didn't realize just how much he was contributing all along!

This is a great idea as long as it's player only. 🙂

@oedipus_tex, does defibrillate do % drain or raw drain? That is very important as enemies go as such: Minions 100 end Lts 140 end Bosses 200 end EBs 800 end

I think brute regen and ninjutsu on scrappers?

I do think the crux of the statement is that Hasten is obscenely powerful for what it provides compared to basically any other power.

Thats mostly right, but a little off: No End Yes End Scrappers 31% 69% Tankers 45% 55% Brutes 38% 62% So, you're right that its not as "Rare" as I said though in the grand scheme of all TW combinations across AT's you still get a 62% spread of combos that include End tools. Of that 62%, its about a 50/50 split (well, 52/48) between Passive +Rec effects and Active End tools too. So make of that what you will. All that said, there is a decent chunk of combos out there that TW is kind of extra end hungry with (Granted this is true of all the combos with every set based on this criteria), and an end discount during momentum would help a lot.

I'm currently quarantined so I'm game. Just @Galaxy Brain me 🙂

Increase res cap to 80% to make the res sets worthwhile Implement the lunge to target confront that still taunts your target, also apply a -Dmg/-Def to them (unresistable). Random idea for scrapperlock: each time you crit you actually trigger (scrapperlock), which is a short lived buff to Regen, Recovery, and Crit Chance (3%). This buff does not stack but can be refreshed indefinitely. Perhaps the boost to regen and recovery can apply to allies in a range when it happens as a morale boost. Pie in the Sky: Scrappers share their melee attacks with Brutes and Tankers. We already see those two have some differences (mainly tanks) but they also share stuff like the +Def from Storm Kick. Do more of this for Scrappers Only where their versions of powers behave extra scrap that others dont. Heck, tie it to crits! Claw Crit -> DoT Fire Crit -> Harsh -Regen Broadsword Crit -> -Res Etc

Right, in fact it's actually rare to not have an endurance tool in an armor set. As detailed at the bottom of page 2, TWs issue is that even though it gets amazing damage per endurance spent, it spends endurance at a ridiculous rate.

So, one thing I want to touch on is the Damage per Endurance spent, which should be the real metric we look at. Alongside End use per Second, we can get an idea of what we are looking at: Comparing the two again, if we were to just go through each of their powers one by one in a row, we would see the above totals. TW uses about 10% more endurance total than WM did, and dealt 43% more total damage. This results in a DPE of 14.7 vs 11.35, which is 30% higher for TW. A big difference here tho, is time: Assuming you could use Follow Through and Whirling Smash outside momentum, the top time stats show all powers activated one after the other for both sets, which is shockingly close. Below is the time if you were able to swing all of your powers during momentum, which is technically possible during TW's Build Momentum power. Without momentum, and magically able to use FT and WS outside it, TW burns 5% more End/Sec than WM going through all it's powers. However with momentum, it burns end 78% faster! So, TW has 30% more Damage per End spent, but spend End 78% faster. To push the point further, with no slotting a character with Stamina (everyone has it) recovers 2.08 end/sec. In the Momentum Time, the TW character would recoup 16.64 endurance, while the WM character recovers 26.81, which is 61% more recovered! Actually, an easier way to show it would be to just subtract 2.08 from the end/sec values: With Momentum and recovery factored in, TW is actually burning end 121% faster. while only attacking 61% faster, for 30% more damage per endurance spent. So yes, TW hits way harder than any other set, but it appears to actually be over-paying for that luxury.... Thanks to @Hopeling, we have the values of how much more damage each TW attack deals: With that in mind, lets re-run everything else I've done with these new values: Lets look at the DPA: The old values were 19%, 105%, and 42% in TW's favor, which dropped down to 5%, 79%, and 24%. Still in TW's favor but by nowhere near as much going by the Avg. 43% -> 25% more total damage, and only 13% more Damage per End down from 30%. Still better, but again not by a huge margin! So, what is left here is the issue with the insane 121% faster endurance consumption while in Momentum. You know... lifting a swinging the weapon the first time should cost more endurance than when it's got momentum thematically. What if when you are already swinging you get an endurance discount? Just spitballing a number here, but lets say that we buff Momentum to include a 30% endurance discount while active. That drops the 121% rate down to a much more reasonable 55% rate. This could be much, much more manageable with simple slotting / the plethora of secondaries that offer endurance tools on top of TW still hitting harder per swing.

This has been shelved for the moment, but it is def worth looking at for the future.

Replace one of the Genin's powers with the blinding powder from /Ninja Training Give all ninjas Ninja Run dammit

I've added a page to my Melee Set comparison sheet called "TW vs WM" for this comparison: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1W6KAQFJwSP44hd1MHJiPPYCw4yFetHvTomfbMQR3z2M/edit#gid=1160580221 It's the last page if anyone wants more detailed info. The closest set to TW is probably WM in terms of a direct comparison. Both are heavy, Smashing Weapons sets that feature multiple cones, knockdowns, and are famous for big DPA. Lets see how they compare: At base lvls for Scrappers: War Mace costs 11% less Endurance per attack on average. War Mace animates 27% faster on average outside of Momentum. With Momentum, TW animates 61% faster on average. Without momentum, TW has about 19% more DPA than War Mace on average. With momentum, this skyrockets to 105% more DPA. Under the assumption that Momentum can only be a factor about 80% of the time, I averaged this down to about a 42% lead. So, TW only costs 11% more endurance but probably dishes out 42% more damage than WM on average. However, this does not include the DoT of 2 TW powers, and the -Res from Rend Armor! TW also has 9-10ft melee range where WM has 7-8ft, and it's PBAoE is a 15ft radius compared to WM's 8ft. The 11% end per swing adds up tho, as you are also technically attacking much faster than WM is... so it's really more like 25% more end cost / time. Even still, that doesn't close the gap between the damage values. So, there are a few things we can tweak with TW: Change the raw damage it deals Change the Activation times of the powers Change the duration of momentum Any of those could work to make the set feel much better all around and bring it closer to parity with other top performers.

I can post numbers a little later (got the flu, my energy is in and out lol), but the idea must have been to help the initial slow swings by having extra damage.

Since we have a new thread, I want to say that I still would like TW to be a top performer when nerfed. The issue is that it is currently *the* tip-top by a big gap for Scrapper and Brutes, incomparable to other top sets in that it out ST damages, out AoE damages, and even out safety's a good chunk of the competition. It's downside is that it requires much more attention and player-stamina to use than say, Spines or Rad Melee, and as such combined with higher end costs and a slow start can be off putting. What I would like to see is more leniency on TW in exchange for less top end performance. Lower the damage dealt by (10%) per power, but also reduce the end cost by (10%) as well. TW attacks currently deal between 18-44% more damage than they should according to the normal damage formulas, cutting into that (make it 9-22%?) And giving it back and end discount would go a long way. Take Defensive Sweep, the T1 that acts as an AoE parry, and normalize its animation. It currently iirc animates in 2.2 sec or 1sec, make it always 1.6 sec and be unaffected by momentum. It can still grant it, but it also gives TW a generally faster (but still a bit slow, and lower damage) option for new players.

Is there a general "level" you are aiming at balancing sets to @Captain Powerhouse? A good deal of confusion may be cleared up with that in mind instead of vague "this will be touched" messages.

I was under the impression that EM was nerfed due to PvP, but the effects of said nerf also had to be done in PvE since there was little to no separation at the time?

This is a situation where different versions of a set, or at least different values need to be at play. On Scrappers and Brutes, TW definitely outshines tons of other sets. But on Tankers they have drastically different attacks with their ranges and targets being different that it is hard to say TW is still the absolute top dog.

EM nerfs were archaic and heavy handed yes, as we talked about it seems to have been done due to EM Stalkers in PvP... but due to the engine at the time it was a blanket nerf instead of a PvP /Stalker only nerf. As my infamous thread said before, I think it really only needs a slap on the wrist. It overperforms even on SO's and with a secondary that gives only basic protections. The damage per swing was adjusted beyond what the basic formula says it should have anywhere from 15-50% more damage, which combined with how you will be swinging fast attacks more than half the time leads to it being objectively overperforming. What could be done in response is just tone the damage down a smidge but then rebalance the end cost / etc by an equal smidge to make the lower lvl (both in player ability and actual lvl) gameplay smoother, but reign in the top performance while still being an awesome set.

More feedback after more Bots/Elec time: This combo is excellent for tankerminding. The chain heal is fast and reliable, hits yourself, and combined with the Res and -Damage you can apply to a tougher target makes you laugh at a lot of dangerous situations. Empowering Circuit I also underrated earlier, passing the buff around once the A.Bot has the initial buff keeps everyone dealing great damage. I don't even have the Absorb Chain yet! Perf Shifter in the Energizing Circuit makes it consistently give back 25% of my end bar it seems. Defibrillator doesn't seem too good for an MM that constantly tosses out AoE missiles and Lasers.... possibly skippable. The End Drain is still not noticeable even on a tough target before they get lasered to death. What is nice is the stacking of -Damage + Faraday tho. End Drain as a mechanic could use a once-over in general IMHO (coming from somebody who mained an elec3 blaster on live), as talked about in the Suggestions Forum. Maybe it's more noticeable vs an EB? Overall it feels very solid and leads to a very tanky team. One thing I could not notice tho is that the Sentinel's Discharge states it is a 10ft radius AoE, but I couldn't notice it hit multiple targets. Is this a typo?

List out which are which. I think we all have different ideas of what sets need buffs and how badly (with some exception... like EM being universally agreed upon), but on the flipside there is a large amount of the playerbase that feels the game is very easy. Simply buffing everything without modeling in some nerfs just makes it even easier.