ZemX

For the same reason, I'd always played Corruptors instead of Defenders once CoV came out. There is almost never such a thing as too much damage on a team. The more damage you have, the faster you go (and the less support you need unless it's the kind that gives you more damage). So in general, I'd always preferred to have the higher damage scalar, Scourge, earlier damage powers, and... "good enough" support secondary. There is of course no question which one I'd prefer on a team where I was the only (or maybe one of two) support ATs. Was doing some lowbie teaming at around 20 on my Dark/AR defender last night and it was super nice to already have everything I'm not skipping in Dark Miasma except for Dark Servant available to me. But we'll see how far I get before I decide one way or the other which mirror character to drop (if I ever do). Should be fun.

Sorry. I meant the part about Hamidon always spawning at a minimum of 50 regardless of the level of the team. It does sound like this was always the case and I have some vague recollections along those lines too. Just not sure of it.

Was it like that on Live? I can't recall. There's no mention of it on CoH wiki or Paragon Wiki archive. Unofficial Homecoming Wiki mentions the level now goes down to 35 for players joining but says Hamidon is "still" 50 which implies it was this way all along. In any case, I've only been back a few months and the only LGTF I've completed, the team didn't know about Hamidon being 50 either. The leader was 40 and so we ran into a brick wall on that mission. We assumed it was a bug, called a GM, who also didn't seem to know it was supposed to be 50, and cleared the mission for us. Then again, it's always been a poorly designed TF because of that encounter since it requires you to know ahead of time what to bring with you on the team, which also goes against most of the design philosophy of the entire rest of the game.

Nice! For what it's worth, I made a similar decision (so far). I have my old AR/Dark Corruptor concept from Live resurrected (pun intended since he's basically an undead knight). And I've got both an AR/Dark and Dark/AR version of him going on Everlasting right now at around level 20 so far. I still can't decide. The Defender doesn't feel weak solo thanks to Vigilance and the support has been great on teams. On paper... the Defender ATOs also look just a bit more appealing to me. In the early levels, so far, I give the nod to the Defender. Having more of the support powers earlier has made him feel safer as well as more useful on teams. But I think the Corruptor will catch up later because I kind of don't care about the later Dark Miasma powers except for Fluffy and even it just does more of what I already do. Should be interesting!

Right, but it looks like that endurance reduction starts at zero when everyone on the team is at full health and then scales up from there as people take damage. Which is fine if you only react to damage with healing or something but if your support set is about proactively preventing damage, all that endurance you're spending on debuffs goes to... sabotaging your own end bonus, no? I suppose it's mostly irrelevant though and the decision between Corruptors and Defenders (outside of a few special cases) still boils down to whether or not you want to support more or damage more.

Good to know. I didn't realize Mid's was that far out of date. It'll make me think about it some more. Dark Servant directs to two different pages on CoD but the powers all look identical in effect. Is that true or is there some difference there also between the ATs? Still not sure I like Vigilance. Definitely nice solo, but if I read things right, it disappears on a team when nobody is hurt? I get that that's about Defenders being more support focused but it would be nice if they always got something on a team. Like at least a small end discount per teammate that then scaled up when people got hurt.

This is true if you only solo. I don't find immobilize all that uncommon on teams however. Also in this case, TA has a Tier 1, mag 3 immobilize on a base 4 second recharge. That's going to be fast and easy to stack on a boss. On my AR/Dark Corruptor, I would leave it till later possibly because I'd depend on Web Cocoon which is (a) Not available until 35 and (b) Not very fast to stack mag without a whole lot of recharge and global recharge. But it does have a generous duration at least.

Really? No one has offered up "Automatic" yet? I am also fretting over the Corruptor/Defender choice but in my case it's AR vs Archery to go with Dark Miasma. It's an old character from live that I did as an AR/Dark corruptor, so I wondered if I should try Dark/AR Defender this time but... not feelin it yet. I like the damage and earlier attacks and... the support stuff always seemed "good enough" to me. Helps that Tar Patch is the same either way in my case. And yeah, Ignite definitely scourges. I used to use it with Black Scorpion's Web Envelope although you will have an immob in your secondary to keep them fleeing out of the patch. It's a slow animation but... it's going to look especially evil dropping an oil slick, an entangling arrow, lighting your foe on fire... and then walking away while they burn. The walking away part is important so be sure to have the "Walk" power at the ready! ETA: Come to think of it... maybe "Semiautomatic" as a joke since the AR side is fully automatic and the TA side isn't any automatic. 🤪

That's the hard part of the trade-off for me. I have a few Rad Armor Stalkers and on one I went healing with the two AoEs in the secondary, but they can accept damage procs, so it's popular to turn them into proc-nukes. With relatively long base recharge times, the procs tend to be pretty reliable on each activation, is the way I understand it. But I still didn't put more than one proc in them because I didn't want to lose the set bonuses.

Well first off, we're talking about pick-up teams because a regular group would have already worked this out. But second, if you're telling me you regularly join random groups that clear +4 spawns which have been immobilized over a scattered 30ft radius area in "seconds", ummm... I"ll just have to say you and I are playing different games or else I have really bad luck with pick up teams. I'm sure people will now jump in to tell me how this is possible, even though I haven't said it isn't. I'm saying it isn't common. At least not on Everlasting in pick-up TFs and mission teams it isn't.

Check out Croax's tier list and builds thread in this forum. There are a whole ton of builds in there to start with. You might also consider Rad Armor as a secondary if you want AoE. It has two powers, Radiation Therapy and Ground Zero which can be turned into proc nukes if you want to go that way. And as a hybrid resistance/regen/absorb set it's more sturdy that a simple resistance vs. defense debate would lead you to believe. Regarding any AoE though, when comparing sets to see which one has "better" AoE than another, I think people tend to ignore the A in AoE too much. Area is a big deal (pun intended). A 7ft 50deg cone is lucky to hit two enemies without first packing them together. Wider 7ft cones like in BS and NB can more easily hit three nearby attackers, but won't reach beyond them. Meanwhile slightly longer cones like in Staff, DB, IM, FM can easily hit multiple rows of enemies with a little positioning. And of course Claws and Spines have their long range cones. I haven't seen any really good comparison of melee AoE sets. The old DPS spreadsheet a lot of people will point to is terrible for AoE. You only have to see Ninja Blade at the top by a mile to know it's seriously borked (mostly because it unrealistically assumes you will always hit the target cap for AoEs and Golden Dragonfly once had, essentially only on paper, the ability to hit ten targets). Also.. DPA is kind of not as relevant for AoE as it is for ST. You don't have an unbroken AoE attack chain in any of these sets so the only damage you're hindering with a slower animating AoE is that of your other ST attacks. That's not nothing, but has to be weighed against how many targets you hit with that AoE. That is multiplying your DPS. Reliably hitting ten targets with an AoE is far more important than just hitting two or three with a tiny cone, no matter how quick it is. Never tried Spines. Can't get past the aesthetics myself, but it sure looks fantastic on paper. I've tried Staff, Ninja Blade, and Ice Melee to 50 so far and Staff is an AoE beast out of that group because of more generous areas and faster recharge, not to mention some combo mechanic add-ons. Ice is quite nice as well though seems a bit slower. Ninja Blade.. not so much. I can usually hit three with Flashing Steel and it's fast, but Golden Dragonfly is rarely more than one hit, maybe two unless things are super packed tight, and it suffers from a 50% hidden crit because it's still classed as an AoE. bleah. I've had some lowbie Rad Melee, Street Justice, Savage, and Elec Melee stalkers but none as caught on with me as much as the previously mentioned ones. Elec definitely has plenty of AoE even if you discount Jacob's Ladder for its small cone area. I'll probably ramp that one up next. Street Justice, for all its popularity, isn't that great in AoE. Spinning Strike sort of behaves like a decent cone even though it's implemented as a TAoE w/6ft radius but it still won't hit its target cap of 10. Six if you have them absolutely packed together. It's a great ST bruiser tho.

Sure, but "teamwork" isn't eight people just doing their own thing, ideally. It's also thinking about the way the rest of the team works and how things can work better that makes you more than just someone who understands their own powers and role. People immobilizing scattered mobs over a 30ft radius area only really works for teammates who can do wide area damage. That's nice and all, but if that's just you and maybe one other teammate... you kind of aren't helping. Holding off on pressing that button for a few seconds isn't that hard. Folding space around the tanker/brute instead of you doesn't prevent you from following up with your own AoE. It just means everyone else can do that same. I mean, I don't pretend to know how every AT works. I stick to the few that interest me. But I can see what they're doing on a team and adapt my play. I can see a Brute or Tanker running around gathering up enemies and hold off on running in to pull aggro with an attack right away. I can see them corner pulling out of a room that seems to have multiple level 54 groups in aggro range of each other and NOT interrupt their pull before it has gathered at the corner. Yet I would say more often than not, PuG teammates simply can't resist attacking long enough to let that properly develop. At best it just means it takes longer to clear. At worst, team gets wiped. Some in this thread are already dismissing this sort of play as being overly concerned about efficiency. I just call it good teamwork. Nobody HAS to do it... but isn't it nice when they do?

I guess the problem is what you'd drop for it. As mostly a defensive measure, you could drop Fighting and gain a slot for Ice Patch and two other picks but... that's got some caveats. While I said I'm thinking about dropping Fighting, I haven't done it yet. Ice Patch protects well against ground-based melee enemies mostly, not aerial or ranged, unless you have a means to get them onto the dance floor. It's particularly useless against CoT ghosts, for example, as I was painfully reminded on a Tarikoss SF last night that was set to +2. At that level, the CoT debuffs were brutal and the ghosts just laughed at Ice Patch as they floated above it flooring my toHit. I am also just a few points shy of capped S/L on my Ice/Rad and that's pretty nice. I am not at the soft cap, so losing Weave doesn't hurt me much. I could pick up Maneuvers instead and get a few of those points back as well as the place to slot a LotG. But losing around (if I remember right) 17% S/L? Ouch. Other than that, you might drop Unleash Potential, but it would cost you a LotG. Less than it would cost you in recharge if you lost Hasten though of course. Anything else you'd drop looks like it would walk back some of your -res goal.

Seconded. I am even considering respeccing out of Tough/Weave to see what other utility I can fit in. But I get that not everybody cares about that sort of thing on a Stalker. Still, Patch is not just defensive if you consider using it to collect and nuke groups. I was just using it last night on an ITF. I could pile up entire Roman ambushes into a neat little pack and nuke them with Frost, Frozen Aura, and Ground Zero (with a few procs). Shame I didn't have Judgement slotted yet too. With Assassin's Mark it was sometimes literally: Hide -> Patch -> Build Up -> Frozen Aura -> Build Up -> Ground Zero -> Build Up -> Frost ... etc. And through that, Patch helps keep you alive by cutting down on a ton of attacks you would otherwise be receiving. To me that's worth the 1-slotted power spot it takes up in my build. If there's a down-side, it's that Ice Patch occupies a spot in the primary usually filled by another moderate/high-dmg ST attack. As a result, when I eventually dropped Frozen Fists while leveling up, I feel like I no longer have a fast ST chain to build focus quickly. At least it seems like I see less of the orange ring around AS than I do on my Staffer. Thinking about finding room for Frozen Fists again. I might drop Fighting pool and pick up FF along with some other fun stuff. I'll have to ponder that.

Every PUG team I am ever on that runs into a Warrior mission, just after zoning in. We're all that old.

I don't think that's true in this case. Or I just got insanely lucky. If Build Up->Moonbeam from a hidden Stalker on Holtz didn't aggro Weakened Honoree, I am not sure what would unless it's an actual AoE that hits them both.

Endurance? Why run Flight if you're in combat? Or does the endurance usage get suppressed along with the flight speed automatically? I've honestly never checked because I don't do fliers mostly. I don't run Super Jump and Combat Jump at the same time because it offers TOO much control in the air for my liking. It's too twitchy. That wouldn't be a problem for flying. Nobody mentioned Evasive Maneuvers. I assume that IS being run all the time if someone takes it.

Well, now I don't feel so bad about missing out on HC's opening.

There's no need to nail anything down or be neat. I brought this up as a way to improve the odds over simply getting 8 randoms of any level and AT. That's why I said AT and Level matter more than anything else people were bringing up. I'm not saying you need to consider AT for every one of the eight slots. I'm not really saying anything that isn't already done by most PUG leaders putting together a tough TF at the very least. Get at least one Brute or Tanker at the TF level and a couple support and you pretty much have tanking and support covered. And support is a whole list of different ATs. Not just defenders. That's pretty common knowledge. It's been a whole lot of years since I've seen anybody asking specifically for an empathy defender and if you do see that... you know to steer clear. Because that's someone who doesn't really understand the game.

Again, people keep piping up to say what else beside the trinity works and I keep saying... yeah man... I know. That's not the point. It's about playing the odds, not just hoping people will surprise you pleasantly. Personally, I do prefer the latter, but that's not who I was responding to with that.

How? I join PUGs with MMs all the time. I play Stalkers mostly and there are definitely more of you guys around than Stalkers. 😛 I've never played an MM but even I know they can do damage and support at the very least so why wouldn't someone count you in those roles? I don't know if you have any aggro management though. Tanking isn't just surviving. It's surviving while controlling aggro. Brutes and Tankers have the best tools for drawing aggro and holding it. Doesn't mean nobody else can do it or do things like it (or do things that make it irrelevant). Like I said, this is about playing it safe with unknown players who may or may not turn out to be MMs that can solo ITFs at max settings. A LOT of other things work and IOs and Incarnates change almost ALL the rules to boot. These other things just aren't AS likely to work in any random pick-up team is the only point I am making. I still vastly prefer collecting 8 randos and going. It only sometimes ends up with the entire team in a +6 Arachnos jail on the FIRST spawn. (But to be clear... I didn't put that team together. 🤪)

Fair. I'm being loose with the definition of "Holy Trinity" here by saying tanking rather than Tanker and especially "support" rather than "healer". And again, this is all only if you want to play it safe as possible. I generally don't care enough. If it doesn't work, it doesn't work. It's RARE that things don't work, in my experience. In most cases it does not, the problem is levels first and AT composition a more distant second. It's a good point though. When you run into someone who is being overly specific about team needs, they are doing YOU more of a favor than they are doing themselves, I think. Same goes for team members who aren't willing to put up with your decision to run at a particular level or difficulty based on what you see happening. Tell people up front you will adjust difficulty as you see fit so they know it can happen. If they still want to complain about it after being invited and accepting... that's on them. They're doing both of us a favor by leaving.

You must have done something different. This works exactly as you specified. If Super Jump is already running, hittting its key turns it off. It does not turn on Combat Jumping. @UberGuy has just posted the same solution I did. It works. Give it a shot. If it doesn't work, try unbinding both keys and trying again. Like I said, I did experience one problem like you describe but once I made sure both keys were unbound first, I got it working.

AT and level. These will, more reliably than anything yet mentioned, give you the best chance of success if you don't know who you're teaming with. The game may not require the Holy Trinity, but that's not the same thing as saying it doesn't work. It does work. It's not the only way... but it is a safe way when you don't know the people you're teaming with and aren't willing to roll the dice. If you are teaming with people you know, then it's much easier to be comfortable with any mix of ATs. Nothing is a guarantee of course, but having some tanking, some support, and some damage at levels appropriate to the mission and difficulty is going to work nearly every time. If it's a TF, and you're unsure, don't start out at +4. Read the team on a mission first. Then adjust. Not saying badges don't tell you anything, but I don't think they're as reliable an indicator of how well a random team might work. To say nothing of... how exactly would you form a team that way? Do you advertise for people to have a minimum number of accolades? I've definitely never seen that one.

I just did this with Combat Jumping and Super Jump: I had these two powers in trays 1 and 2 in position 9 in each. I had 'q' bound to CJ and 'alt+q' bound to SJ. So I keep the powers there just like before. But I didn't ever activate them by clicking the mouse. Just the keypresses. If that's okay with you, this will work same as before the issue release (except in your case, with Hover and Fly): bind q "powexec_toggleoff Super Jump$$powexec_name Combat Jumping" bind alt+q "powexec_toggleoff Combat Jumping$$powexec_name Super Jump" Like I said, mouse clicking doesn't work this way and would still allow both powers to be active if you activate them by clicking. Mouse clickers would have to create macro buttons with the above binds in them. That would work, but wouldn't show the spinning indicator of an active toggle around the button like before. Very close though to the same functionality as before. I should note, I had some weirdness while I was doing these binds. I had to unbind both keys first and then rebind them as given above. Not sure what that was about. You can add toggleoff statements to these binds for things like Ninja Run as well, since I think that used to be exclusive with travel powers before as well. And then the Ninja Run bind would toggle off both Hover and Fly. Should work.