Forager

I wonder why you stopped there. If white salvage can go, it can all go... because it could all be influence. It's not truly a different currency. Why didn't you just argue to remove the salvage system?

Yes. Right. Great job. That is what is happening. No other way. That's what I said. That's what I meant. You are spot on. You understand it exactly. You're crushing it. Ooh, so close. I expected pushback. In a way, by suggesting something like this, I am inviting it. I'm saying that something people do is stupid. Of course there will be pushback. I just expected the pushback to be about how it's not stupid.

That's perhaps the best argument against it. It's just not a good system, or even a real one. It's busy work, not a mini game. There's no skill or strategy to it. It's not even luck or chance based because everything is on the auction house. It wouldn't be tolerated in a new game. The problem is that you're arguing that it's not fun with people who are not arguing that it is fun. They'll say you're trying to force them to play your way, or they will imply that the game economy will suffer, or they will point out other things white salvage does or even how easy it is to sort... but nobody is really saying it's a good system or "I enjoy sorting salvage." It is a boring, tedious, extra step that does not really qualify as gameplay. Nobody is actually arguing against that idea.

Ehh... it's not a terrible summary, but the reason it went so long was the whole "allowed" thing. I said it was stupid and we shouldn't do it... but they spent all these pages arguing that they're allowed to. That was never on the table, but lots of folks wanted to imagine it there. So yeah, I do think it's stupid and people shouldn't do it. (BUT YOU'RE ALLOWED TO!!!)

Would anyone care to take a stab at my actual point? I'm saying it's pointless to discuss something that you have no knowledge of, and the arguments have been "but we're allowed!" and now "but some people do know about it!" I'll even help. A good example of players contributing in this area is in the eye blast thread, with players looking for animations that already exist in game. That's players with a grasp of the limitations using their knowledge and experience to improve on an idea. Has it occurred to anyone of the hit dogs hollering that maybe I'm not talking about intelligent, informed posts? Maybe I'm just talking about intellectually dishonest people with no knowledge and experience retreating to this argument when they don't have anything to add and can't refute any points, but shooting down ideas is their hobby. I thought it was like 3 or 4 dudes. I was posting about 3 or 4 dudes. I was going to cite the flipside of "a hit dog or holler" which is "if it don't apply, let it fly" but after pages and pages of... this... I don't know what to think. Maybe the current culture of this forum is one that the development team is happy with? It's weird to me, but it appears I'm the minority on that.

So the new objection is "Some people do know about these things!" Cool..? Good for them?

I used to do it that way. But now I pop pills a handful at a time like a pro so now my columns are cocktails.

It is mindless busy work. Some people enjoy that, though. In a newer game, I don't think anyone would be defending this system. It's clearly a fake salvage and crafting system. You're not looking for flowers in their native region or hunting a certain part from a specific clockwork... it is definitely fugazi. Think about the glowies we use for "clues" and mechanics in the heist part of the Summer Blockbuster event. You might be surprised at what other people think is fun. A lot of players like sorting their salvage and pretending it really is salvage. What would you replace that with.

I got you. It's the part where you using a power means another player can't use theirs. That is control. You believe that it's a control "for their own good" but it's a control nonetheless. Your dissenters are arguing for their right to waste the power activation.

I think the talking point is allowed, but pointless. If you don't think the mod and dev response supports that opinion... ok? I don't personally think it takes a lot of histrionics to get to that interpretation, but you're totally allowed to think that too.

Yes! Exactly.

People with no knowledge or insight into the development process. People who don't know what the devs can, can't, will or won't do. People who don't know how those decisions are made. People that don't know that they don't know these things.

So we have some evidence that the talking point could be put to rest. You're allowed to continue using it, of course. I understand that it's very important for some of you that we reiterate a few times that you're allowed. You're allowed. It's allowed. Just because something is pointless doesn't mean you have to quit. It's your time. Have fun!

And...

So what we've learned so far.

Please tell me how you outgrew reds! I keep a lot of the others disabled on some characters to avoid the tray filling with trash, but how did you kick the red habit?

That's right! You did respond to that thread! Great job. But I wonder... if you don't think the criticism applies to your post, why you would defend your post against it. You're allowed to do this, of course. Hey man... have fun.

Don't forget that Kallisti Wharf was unpopulated for 5 years...

Lol wut? Ok, man. Have fun.

If you go look at the (Future) Echo Founders Falls thread you can see them at work. It's a great example. The responses in that thread are so mind numbing and pedantic... it seems almost malicious, like they do this for sport. I really can't tell if these people are genuinely that obtuse or they're pretending to be... and I'm not even sure which is worse. The poster even couched their example with the fact that the assets already exist in game, but the Idea Police still found a way...

The irony was not lost on me. But if it's going to be tragic... at least it's poetic. I knew that there would be people who experienced difficulty with what I said. I've used the internet before. I did NOT expect the consistency, numbers and intensity, though. There was a guy in the thread earlier who said that the many outweigh the few when it comes to perception... and he meant it unironically. Like that was the defense of his point. More people said it. His group was bigger. Again, I'm not new to the internet... but I do get surprised every once in awhile. I knew the plot was gone when the fact that I reply meant that I'm wrong lol. Think about how chilling an insinuation that is.

That's right! Echo zones are old versions of zones. OP is proposing an echo zone that's not an old version of a zone. It would be a... new? Alternate? Different! It would be a different version of a zone.

A bit of a non sequitur there... but answering in good faith: I'm participating in the conversation because I started it and I want to.

I asked the guy... then I... what? And even if I was "still trying" whatever that means... so? You actually outlined reasons to try... you said I think it's stupid, you said the dev avoided answering, and you said I know that a dev's stated stance will affect discourse... yeah... what? Lol. Yeah. You've got it. I think people should quit using that argument. I think if a dev said people should stop using that argument, that some of them would stop. Right. You got it. Right on. Nailed it. That's my position. And to try and avoid going around again, YOU CAN STILL BE ALLOWED TO MAKE THE ARGUMENT IF YOU DESIRE. I fully support your free speech and right to make... any... kind of argument.

I accepted it. I accepted it over and over. I never didn't accept it. You are allowed to do it. You've always been allowed. You'll always be allowed. Nobody ever thought you weren't allowed. Nobody thinks you shouldn't be allowed. Everybody agrees you're allowed to do it. I've maintained this. I've repeated it. This reply might even seem familiar. And yet... the argument persists... it's practically supernatural at this point. I'm very surprised that people would still type something like that and hit send. You're allowed. You're allowed times a million. I just think it's stupid.