battlewraith

You can absolutely blame them. Some of the funniest exchanges ever just vanish into the ether. It's relative. If there are a group of people that are all on the same page, they will be given a lot of leeway to describe things the way they want. There are posters who will be very upfront about ideas they don't like being so stupid that they must be driven off the forums. If there's a dogpile going on, typically about issues that forum regulars consider to be settled, people will be toxic as hell. They will mock the shit out of someone or some idea. It's just not considered toxic because there's a substantial group of people on one side who are in agreement. The issue recently is that the update has created more discord along ideological faultlines. So there are more dissenters in play arguing against the status quo. Now when people can no longer just laugh or scorn something away, they start to complain about toxicity. The forums are too toxic, we need to watch how people talk to each other, etc. etc.

Okay, so you have a 50+3 character--obviously you put an effort into getting the character that far in pve. But you don't want to make any effort setting that character up for a zone. Which is fine but it's not an issue of I can't do anything. It's simply that you don't want to bother actually doing any preparation. A tank especially shouldn't be dying to zone randos unless it's actually an arena team or something. You have additional character slots and I believe that you have plenty of resources. Pvp builds are more strict than pve builds, but there's plenty of info on the forums about what to build for. It's a moot point anyway. It's trivially easy to get these badges now.

That's one of the joys of pvp: if someone trash talks you, you can do something about it. And it's appropriate. In real life, I am not going to punch somebody out because they didn't give me the respect I think I deserve. Whether or not you like trash talk in competitive ventures, it's going to happen. The same way any time you have social gatherings with human beings, there is going to be litter. If I'm organizing a social event, I can provide garbage cans and admonish people not to litter. But until I develop mind control powers, I can't stop littering from happening. But I view that as an issue related to how human beings are. Not an issue related to an outdoor concert, or a Santa Claus parade, or whatever event drew people together at that location. Likewise, I view complaints about abuse and whatnot in pvp zones as a smokescreen that is a cover for other issues. Personally, I learned very quickly not to say anything to people I didn't know in a pvp zone. Despite that, it was very common in the early days of zone pvp for people to fly of the handle, call me a griefer, report me for harassing them (supposedly, nothing ever happened), insult my mother, etc.

Skirmisher/Bard.

Doesn't sound likely. He'd knock on the door, get yelled at, and then start wildly waving his fingers in the air---frantically looking for the real life ignore button.

Well, you're soloing Ghost Widow. So you're character is probably pretty tough, no? Should they then wait for you to finish, and then duel you one at a time? What if you killed the AV and then turned around and ran out lol? Zone pvp has nothing to do with fairness or balance, and it's generally imo the worst type of pvp in any game I've played (other than like a Battle Royale style game). But the vast majority of complaints about coh pvp treat the zones as if they are representative of everything.

Nah. I don't even pvp in this game any more. I don't care if you like it or not. But this kind of characterization is a joke, on many levels. An old, endlessly rehashed joke. First of all pvpers are individuals. The few people in this thread disagreeing that pvp in this game was a mistake, or that pvpers are inherently toxic or something, do not represent some collective of evil pvpers that are out to gaslight you. Other pvpers may or may not agree with me. I think the oldschool ones that are still around don't even post on the forums much. Conversely, I'm very skeptical when someone claims that their viewpoint is in line with 90% of the playerbase. Here are some details about pvp in this game that I think are pretty straightforward and uncontroversial: 1. There was a faction of players that were anti-pvp from the get go. Some of them claimed to have been attracted to coh precisely because there was no pvp. They were pissed when arena pvp was added. 2. I think there were few, if any, complaints about toxic pvp behavior from the early period because it was completely gated off. There were no important things that pvers wanted that they had to pvp for. Also, the system was simpler. People were using SOs or Hammis. A build that favored single target dmg was better, but you didn't have an entirely different ruleset in play. I didn't have problems recruiting regular people for kickballs and matches. There was toxicity, but it was pretty much between specific groups of pvpers, not between pvpers and regular players. Anti-pvpers were still pissed, but their complaints generally had no teeth. 3. Along comes zone pvp. And the decision to add badges in the pvp zones. Now there is a heightened interaction between people who really have no interest in pvp and people who are only interested in pvp. This, I would argue is the source of the trauma that persists in some people to this day. 4. Conflict between pvpers and badgers, etc. did not kill pvp. Castle's disastrous changes did not kill pvp. Lack of development. Outright game breaking bugs like the arena not working. Extremely slow response to imbalanced powers (pvpers basically ruled out things that were a problem when they ran events). A lot of different factors went into the decline. Mistakes were certainly made. Was adding pvp therefore a mistake? No. Yeah I remember it. I also remember that a lot of the abuse boiled down to...getting killed in a pvp zone. "I just went in there to get a badge and this person killed me. I told them to stop, I just wanted the badge, and they killed me again! So I said hey asshole, I'm not here to pvp! Toxic pvpers!" If someone was insulting you, you had tools to deal with it. Ignore them. Disable zone chat. Report them if they broke the EULA. The underlying issue is that, in a game were most things are easy to accomplish, pvp was a serious obstacle for players who were not willing to become skilled at it. Even then there were workarounds. Go in when a zone was empty. Get friends to help you. etc.

Read what I actually said. I said your assessment or account of pvp was ignorant. I was clear from the get go that it wasn't meant as a slur. Moreover, the fact that you don't see a lot of people doing something now, doesn't mean that something was a bad idea or shouldn't have been added to the game.

The topic is issues related to this game and it's past and future development. Not the League of Legends community sucking or pvp brimming with bad apples in general. You gave a really skewed account of pvp in this game which I described as ignorant--because it was, You clearly didn't spend much time pvping. I suggested you have confirmation bias--that seems reasonable given that you claimed to have warned the devs about adding pvp in the first place. If my purpose was to insult you it would be obvious. I try to handle people like you as gently as possible, since anything that rankles you is assumed to "prove your point."

Or it's you and your confirmation bias. Generally when people hop into a topic on the forums, and diverge off of a relatively innocuous comment about dev mistakes to start badmouthing a type of player--they have some emotional axe to grind.

No. It doesn't. Even something like PUBG, where the avatar has the same hp and whatnot, features players using different guns and armor with different stats. There are a ton of MMOs and other games that have pvp and don't feature some generic character. I stuck with coh because of pvp, from I4 to close. It wasn't a "hot minute." I didn't get back into it with Homecoming, but the fact that you don't encounter any pvpers doesn't mean there's no interest. Redside and Goldside are pretty dead as well from what I hear--that doesn't make them mistakes or bad ideas either.

Generally speaking, people that don't have much artistic ability tend to be wowed by realism. It's pretty common for people with a high degree of artistic ability to be bored by it.

I'm not saying this to be insulting, it's just the most accurate term I have to use: this assessment is incredibly ignorant. Like someone who never ran a TF saying they sucked and were a bad idea. When the arena was added, there were so many people queued that it took me a couple days of trying before I could get into a match. There was regular activity in the arenas for quite a while, including server battles and leagues and tournaments. When the zones were added later there was a renewed interest as well. The problem with pvp was a combination of bad decisions and neglect. Castle's reworking of the pvp system was extremely unpopular and made it more difficult for pvers to get into pvp. Add to that the fact that there was little in the way of subsequent updates for pvp AND the fact that the arena was actually non functional for a couple of issues (leading to a patch stating something along the lines of "arena is working again" as new pvp content). Despite all of this, there is still a pvp community. I think they recently ran a season, and there is another event coming up. Edit: also forgot about base raids. They half assed that as well then dropped it completely.

That's fine. You do you. My issue is this: You have three general ways of earning income: running content, farming, and playing the market. Players in the game are doing at least one of these things and most are doing a combination. Farming has been nerfed more than once and the gist of the rationale seems to be that these devs don't want players to feel that they have to farm in order to keep up. Okay, but if that's the idea why is it then alright to assume that everyone will be playing the market in order to keep up (and if they don't, fuck them)? I can't roll a level 30 farmer and make billions over the course of a week. I can't also run normal content with a lvl 30 and make billions over the course of a week. So doesn't that indicate some sort of imbalance with respect to how rewarding this activity is? Based on their statements, I think the devs are not viewing these three approaches as wealth acquiring strategies. They seem to be viewing them as earning (farming, content, etc.) and redistribution/destruction (market). And because the market is regarded differently, it's absolutely fine that people can trivially acquire large sums of money through marketing. But then what happened to the initial complaint against farming--that players would feel they needed to do this. Playing the market to generate wealth is akin to using steroids in sports. If it becomes the case that most players are using them, players who don't will be at a severe disadvantage. A lot of players not only seem to acknowledge this, but strongly embrace it as well. "I got no sympathy for you man, just take the drugs."

LOL. This is like an SNL skit. "Bob, I know you've been living here for close to 20 years. But this is a certain kind of town, with a certain kind of people. Maybe it's just not right for your heathen ways, and that's okay! There's lot's of other places that might fit with your sinful lifestyle. But if you do decide to stay, you are perfectly welcome in our cult." Word to the wise in general: If people start defining what the game is--they are forwarding an agenda. If people start suggesting that maybe leaving is a better option than expressing your opinions here--they are high on something. And no, they are not hanging out with Bill smoking the good stuff and living their best life.

As I stated earlier, I'm not looking for some change in the structure of the game. The changes they made in this update are fucking irritating, but I'll still play the same way. It will just take more grinding or something to achieve the same result. It won't affect serious farmers or people that make a lot of money on the market or those who run a lot of TFs on a regular basis. The changes affect people like me--casual players who solo a lot, farm sometimes, and run certain trials or tfs occasionally. I'm drawing attention to my perspective because I don't want it to get any worse, that's it.

This is pure boomer logic. When I was a child there were no cell phones. Therefore, you shouldn't complain about your wifi connection. It's that level of reasoning. I don't stress about being uber. And I have a pretty good understanding of how I like to play the game, given the time I have available. That doesn't involve lowbie teaming. It's not. And that isn't an expectation I would have in leveling an alt.

I think if people have any common sense they don't try to direct others away from playing the game. It's not a good look for the forums. YMMV.

I don't know what the council of thirteen is, but it sounds like they need Bilbo.

I was playing before the market was a thing. Which makes this notion of the market as the essential thing pretty stupid. I think if you are at all invested in the game, it's worth giving negative feedback if things go south. And I think in a way it becomes more important when people in the community start pointing to the door rather than actually listening or acknowledging dissent. Usually when I make a new character, I run around Atlas for a few levels killing things. I might do a couple DFBs. Then I'll Pl it in stages. Get some levels. Then do missions for a level or two. PL again. Do more missions. Kind of depends on the character. Don't generally PL straight from 1-50. Not sure what this is relevant to anyway.

Cmon, I think you know better than this. I agree with you. It is a superhero game. My goal in playing it is to play a super hero or super villain. The problem, as anyone who is paying attention knows, is that this game is almost 20 years old. The content I enjoy playing is 50+. I, like many people, don't want to have to slog through that leveling process for the umpteenth time just to get to do the trials and whatever content I actually want to do. Fortunately, I can farm a character to 50 in a few hours. But despite what some idiot told me last month, I did not make around 1 billion inf during that process. I made around 100 million. So there's still some work I have to do just to get my new character enhanced. I have to farm more, or run a bunch of content on other characters or start some money making scheme on the market. All of this other activity just as preparation for the character I actually want to play. Which will then need to do accolades, incarnates, etc. I'm not asking the devs to change that. I'm not complaining about it in order to get it easier. Just don't make it fucking worse. Especially when all these people are crawling out of the woodwork crowing about how easy it is to make money on the market. And then telling you to look for another game if you don't want to take their advice.

If someone is not appreciated while they are alive, how does someone else come along later and exploit their name? What value in the name is there to exploit? Art in general reflects the cultural currents of the day. Modern art is such a strong break from previous traditions because there were major shifts in our understanding and experience of reality during the modern period. The discovery of the subconscious, radical scientific theories (evolution, relativity, etc.), world wars, technological developments etc. all spurred divergent styles of representation in the visual arts. Usually when someone is discovered or rediscovered, it means that the current trends have shifted in a way that makes their work relevant again to other artists and collectors. J.C. Leyendecker for example was very popular in the early part of the 20th century and then gradually faded from prominence. Lately, I'd say he's having a resurgence because contemporary fantasy artists love him.

All I want from YOU and the people like you is to stfu with notion that "the easy path" is the solution to every problem. I don't want your money and I've paid for everything I've got, just like anyone else. The fact that I don't want to rely on the market doesn't mean I'm willing to put nothing into it. It just means that I still have a vision where this game isn't about the market. You like to do that, knock yourself out Ritchie Rich. But as long as we can still voice opinions, I'm not the only one around that never found that aspect of gameplay appealing and wants to keep it as optional as possible--not something that people are expected to do to any large degree.

But see, honestly, that's complete bullshit. I recognize that you can get rich with very little difficulty in this game. But it takes effort. Not strenuous "I'm digging a ditch" effort. Tedious, time wasting effort. Sorting items. Converting things. The types of activities that are the worst aspects imo of the user interface. Exactly the sort of crap that I play a game to avoid doing. So find a new game? Sure. But maybe instead of just writing off players like me, maybe the community and the developers should realize that some people have strayed from what this game was actually about and have bought into this "inf tycoon" market mentality.

Eh...I wouldn't put it that way. Personally I don't like Picasso's art that much. I wouldn't want one hanging in my house. But I understand why it's significant and worth a lot of money. I wouldn't call it junk. There's also a lot of art that is from highly respected, accomplished painters like Da Vinci. That's not my cup of tea either. And likewise I wouldn't call it junk just because it doesn't appeal to me.