Maelwys

IMO it's really the same deal as most MMs: Alpha = Musculature Core. The ED-ignoring Damage Boost is always worth it. Destiny = Barrier (you shouldn't need Clarion - you already have Mez Protection and none of your your Defence buffs are powerboostable). Ageless Radial can sometimes be useful to weather Defence debuffs and grant a little more Endurance/Recharge; but the latter shouldn't really be needed with a properly tricked out build. Hybrid = Support Core or Assault Radial (Support is guaranteed to affect your pets without any activation time juggling; and is probably more useful against anything other than a pylon) Lore = either Talons or Arachnos Radial Superior Ally (Talons are consistently good throughout their duration; Arachnos gives a major survivability spike for 90s once per summoning via "Mind Link" Judgement = not particularly vital, but personally I like Void Radial's damage debuff. Interface = either Reactive Radial Flawless or Degenerative Radial Flawless.

I prefer to be an ass. (There's a campaign speech in there somewhere; surely...)

Darkness! (It might be "Controller only", but it's consistently touted as one of the best all-round defensive sets... think Dark Miasma but with the cracks filled in) Other than that, my vote would be to go Marine. A Marine/Dark Defender would be better only if you REALLY care about pushing you teammate's effective Defense as high as possible... and other than that go for a Corruptor (any primary works really; but Ice, Fire and Elec are the typical gotos) for maximum damage. The reasoning here is that IIRC the Absorb and Recharge buffs are the same values on a Corruptor and a Defender; so the main draw from going Defender are the slightly higher Defense and Damage buffs. Electrical Affinity is OK... but I find it underwhelming and annoyingly slow if you've played the likes of Thermal (for example) before.

1. It used to be that Medicine pool was essentially required... but between the revamped "Serum" from Mercs (which can resistance cap your pets) and /FF's ability to get everything comfortably past the Incarnate Defence Softcap; you're not going to need that much healing. Realistically Mercs' medic should suffice - you could choose to grab the Sorcery Pool for "Spirit Ward" to help keep them alive if you find you need it. 2. It's very useful for certain primaries - my Bots MMs in particular feel gimped without it. Mercs have a good lot of Ranged attacks as well and so should also benefit; but it's not outright required. In my experience Robotic pets are equally likely to get caught on indoor geometry with or without Group Fly toggled on... often repeatedly toggling it off and on will "free them up" but occasionally they'll need dismissed and resummoned (or manually teleported back to you). 3. Maneuvers is probably skippable in a /FF build, but it's still a great spot for a LOTG +7.5% Recharge. Assault is very worthwhile, as is Tactics (for the ToHit debuff protection as well as directly counteracting the T1 and T2 pet Purple Patch level scaling issue!) 4. Besides Damage? Typically (assuming that your keybinds are already good!) the main goal is Pet Survivability. Getting the pets to the "regular content" Defence Softcap is important, then get their Resistance as high as possible. Both are easy with Mercs/FF as long as you have Serum on a low enough recharge - you may not even need Power Boost. Then have a source of "spike survivability" available (like Barrier Destiny, Support Hybrid, Arachnos Radial Lore pets, etc.) for whenever you encounter heavy debuffs or particularly troublesome enemies, and always keep your Inspiration tray loaded up with Team Defence + Healing + Break Frees) Incarnates for MMs is also something worth considering carefully - Barrier Core Epiphany essentially grants another +5% constantly (spiking much higher on first activation) but Radial Clarion is souped-up power boost every 120s. Support Core Embodiment grants another 12% whilst it's up (your pets *can* technically gain the benefits of Assault Hybrid, but it takes a lot of fiddling with the order in which you activate it and summon your pets - I typically don't bother!). You can also pick something like Arachnos Lore for spike survivability (via Mind Link for 90 seconds once per summoning) or Talons Lore for sustained survivability (via Soothing Song) if needed. - - - - - - - - - - Last time I rejiggled my Mercs/FF builds (March '24) I came up with these, in case it's any help: zMastermind - Mercs - FF (Hasten).mbd zMastermind - Mercs - FF (Spirit Ward).mbd Rough Pet Defense Numbers: 11.87% from Dispersion Bubble +10% from the two +5% Pet Aura IOs +17.61% from Deflection/Insulation Shield = 39.48% Defence to all With Power Boost (+24.99% from Deflection/Insulation Shield) = 46.86% Defence to all With Power Boost and Radial Clarion (+33.99% from Deflection/Insulation Shield) = 55.86% Defence to all (having Radial Clarion available can be useful for getting non-henchmen teammates to the softcap; since the Pet Aura IOs won't apply to them!) 🙂 Serum is hardcapping most Pet Resistances for its duration (better uptime with the Hasten build, obviously!) Spirit Ward is granting a ~43 HP buffer to one pet (typically Medic) every 2 seconds which stacks up to ten times.

😉

Looks like Fortification is also rather woefully underslotted; especially since you're taking Tough/Weave? You're currently sitting on ~26%; but it's rather straightforward to push >65% resistance to S/L on a Crabbermind without overly impacting your recharge/damage buffs. Hitpoints look rather low too, but I suspect you've not got the accolades toggled. You should be well north of 2k MaxHP, not hovering in/around 1.8k... RE Knockback protection, a single Steadfast IO in the Lv1 Armor Passive (-4 KB) and/or 3 pieces of Gladiator's Armor in Fortitude (-3 KB) will suffice; but both are better. I'll also echo what 2$Bill said about overreliance on ranged defence - personally I tend towards a Melee/Ranged Spread (as my Crabber mostly acts as the "tank" to let their summons survive for longer) but Ranged/AoE is fine if you're always staying back. I've found the sweet spot is *either* ~45% Melee/Ranged (if taking Mace Epic for Shatter Armor) or ~39% Melee/Ranged (if taking Soul Mastery and spamming Dark Obliteration)... and going for Soul has the additional benefit of further reducing the chance of enemies hitting your poor pets. The Widow from Soul Mastery is Melee focused, but can also hit softcap to all positionals with your double-maneuvers plus the two +Def pet aura IOs. All other pets will cap out in/around the 31% defence mark before -ToHit debuffs and Incarnates. Using an Overwhelming Force: Chance for KD in Spiderlings can help keep your followers alive for a little bit longer - and once you get access to Incarnates you can increase their survivability a lot further via Barrier Destiny, Support Hybrid and either Lore Talons or Arachnos Radial Superior Ally (Talons are consistently good throughout their duration; Arachnos gives a major survivability spike for 90s once per summoning via "Mind Link"). zArachnos Crab Spider (Aim + Assault + Weave).mbd zArachnos Crab Spider (Assault + Tactics + Weave).mbd Arachnos Crab Spider (Soul).mbd

(Flashbacks to live before the "EB downgrade" option was available and my Sonic/Elec Defender's answer to coming across a surprise AV was just to summon a Shivan Decimator and slap them with a set of Warburg Nukes...)

CotM's aura buffs pet AOE defence, which is useful... but it's quite possible to hit the softcap to all positions (eg Melee, Ranged and AOE) without using it. Plus, since enhancement slots in pet powers are limited often it can come down to a choice between using it or a "better" option (damage procs etc). Personally, I dislike it but it still has a place in many people's builds. The real aura IO to avoid like the plague is Commanding Presence: Taunt/Placate Resist. Regarding other ATOs? Sentinel and Brute have a few real Stinkers; but the rest range from "worthwhile" (Controller) to "utterly game changing" (Stalker)

Clue: it's (thankfully) got absolutely nothing to do with a certain ex-president. In short, it's a deck of playing cards with various statistics listed upon each card. They get dealt out, and players takes it in turns to choose a stat on their current card and declare it. A larger stat on your card beats a smaller stat on your opponent's card. Wikipedia has a decent entry on the phenomenon. Personally I became aware of them circa 35 years ago with these:

Perhaps the stated topic is a ruse and this is really a test of the Forum's anti-one-shot code/streak breaker...?

That extra Ice Mistral is a Lv50+5 Acc/Dam/End and is pushing the power's accuracy up considerably. Remember damage procs require a ToHit check in any autohit powers/pseudopets and due to rather convoluted coding, Sleep Grenade's lingering Slow and Sleep effects don't inherit Accuracy Set Bonuses or refreshing buffs like Tactics, so you need to ensure that it can hit reliably with just the inherent slotting. Personally I ended up swapping out the ATO for a Javelin Volley proc; but with 5 regular damage procs it's rare that at least two of them don't fire off. And I've seen all five trigger on activation lots of times (with a few more triggers occurring after 10 and 20 secs whenever the slow set procs get additional activation chances!). Like most AoEs though you really want to be using it against the maximum number of targets for full effectiveness...

> It was more or less impossible to do a TF without a tank and healer. > Auras are often not sufficient to hold aggro. i.e. the main power of the tank is the taunt.

"French Fries" = "Skinny Chips" These are the pathetic strawlike strangled slivers of potato that you get shovelled towards you by Fast-Food drive-through attendants. (usually crying out for some proper condiments) REAL "chips" are thick cut, golden, and delicious. These range from the upmarket "triple cooked" sort that you get in restaurants (a bit like really good 'duck fat' roast potatoes: dry and lightly crunchy on the outside; yieldingly soft and fluffy on the inside) to more traditional fare (Deep Fried, just once, see below for examples!) The latter can be DIVINE if they've been cooked with sufficient levels of skill and they're reasonably fresh rather than reheated. Any UK resident worth their Salt (and Vinegar) has a favourite "chippy" (Traditional Chip Shop) - but in general the closer you get to a seaside fishing village the better they are. There are a few in particular here in Northern Ireland that I will happily drive many, many miles out of my way to visit; such as "Mortons" in Ballycastle.

My three year old calls those "Triangle Crackers" (I call them "Dammit looks like we're out of proper crisps again")

Aside from all the fun globals/procs, I tend to use Eradication (Lv30 cap PBAoE Damage) quite a bit for +Energy Defence and +MaxHP... ..and sometimes Cloud Senses (Lv30 cap Accurate ToHit Debuff) for +Energy Resistance and +Global Recharge.... and Reactive Armor (Lv40 cap Damage Resistance) for +Smashing/Lethal Resistance and +Energy Defence... and Touch of Death (Lv40 cap Melee Damage) for +Smashing/Lethal Resistance and +Melee Defence... and Kinetic Combat (Lv35 cap Melee Damage) for S/L Defence... and Shield Breaker (Lv30 Accurate Defence Debuff) for +Smashing/Lethal Resistance and +AoE Defence... Yeah, there're actually quite a few low-level-capping enhancement sets that provide very useful set bonuses. I very rarely 6-slot an enhancement set into a power; it's all about the build goals and set bonuses so Frankenslotting some lower-capped enhancement sets are fair game.

Agreed. The -MaxHP component of Brine could really do with being flagged as Unresistible (and possibly Unaffected by level differences) in order to be worthwhile against exactly the sort of tough single targets that you'd want to use it on.

This has been dropped from the patch note description since Build 2. Honestly? that's a real shame IMO. The Labyrinth genuinely looks like a very fun addition to the game and a viable alternative to AE mission spam - and I really would prefer if the majority of the CoH playerbase did not end up avoiding it like the plague just because "yeah that place is effectively an instant death zone unless you can get >X people together". (Again, basing this on experiences on a Server with a lower active playerbase than usual at odd hours of the day. Perhaps on the higher population servers at primetime it'll be viable as-is; but even on live it was unusual for our Coalition on the EU servers to get a dedicated team of more than 8 people together at a time...)

Bit of a strawman there. This game has always involved the player being a cliché powerful hero (typically a "super" one, although building a "normal skilled human" is quite possible via natural origins and weapon based powersets etc). And core progression sees the player climbing up from level one (catching purse snatchers) to level 50 (saving the world and parallel Earths). That's the setting, that's the story. Then ON TOP OF that you get the opportunity to boost your inherent abilities further via enhancements and inspirations. Later Issues have seen power levels creep higher via leveraging Inventions; then boosting them; and finally gathering additional legendary levels of power from outside sources (Incarnate abilities). Mission Arcs and TFs see your character being the big damn hero multiple times; and whilst powerful nemesis exist in the game (one who is even appropriately named!) they're always survivable and beatable; because ultimately that's what heroes do - the story of how they win just needs to be entertaining. IMO (and I know I'm not alone here) the main draw of CoH is that playing it makes you feel like a hero. You can easily survive fighting huge hordes of foes; you can take on Archvillians; you can save the world. Or you can become a Villian yourself, or some mixture of both. Unlike most MMORPGs; CoH favours creating lots of alts, and its lower-than-level-cap TFs and Story Arcs have a lot of replay value because simply playing the game as it is is fun and engaging. Hardly any of the people I've encountered since 2004 have cared about "loot" or "difficult challenges" - instead they're in it for things like making new fun costumes, trying out different powersets, and enjoying the bedlam that comes from a bunch of friends steamrolling their way through a fun storyline where they don't have to overly worry about being punished for misclicking or going AFK for a few minutes. Personally, one of my very favourite things to do after a hard day of work is to run "The 5th Column Overthrow" mission from Mender Lazarus, because I find mowing my way through endless hordes of Undead Nazis to be fun and incredibly cathartic. There are always a few outliers, but I firmly believe that it's the storyline and experiencing all the different playstyle combos that is mainly what keeps people coming back (rather than constantly just farming for money, loot and shiny things). And yes, the friends and community - because even decades later whenever we've lost a lot of the old hands, the community here still isn't quite as much of a Wretched Hive of Scum and Villainy as other MMORPGs. In other words, this game is primarily about being a FUN PLAYGROUND rather than a DIFFICULT GRIND. My mild rants here are not just a wordy way of saying "I hate challenges". Challenges are fine. Heroes thrive on challenges. Superman has his Kryptonite just like (most) INV Tankers have holes against Psychic damage. The trick is getting the level of Challenge right so that it's "tricky but achievable" rather than "I keep getting kerbstomped" - because the latter is simply not fun. And it's extra tricky because of the wide variation in build effectiveness and skill levels across CoH's playerbase. Higher difficulty levels have been baked into the game from very early in Live... however enabling those higher levels of difficulty has always been optional. Later on during Live we got "Master of" badges (and I was one of the first to get a good few of those in the EU) - good for bragging rights... but once again, optional. On HC we've now got "HardMode" TFs and Incarnate Trials. Great! Yet again, optional. They've even given us "Ultimate Boss Fights" like the one in the HM4 LGTF. Still optional. Outside of Hamidon Raids the rewards from completing these optional difficulty challenges have always been limited - a bit more EXP and some minor currency bonuses, badges, vanity items, accolades that do not contribute to making your character "mechanically better" such as Excalibonk. Realistically the only "loot" in CoH are enhancements that anyone can save up and purchase with merits or buy from the Auction House; and it is so easy to gain large levels of currency that a lot of long-term players have resorted to inventive methods of getting around the 2 billion-per-character influence limit (like placing large bids on non-existent inspirations; or sending it via email to your global chat handle and never "claiming" it again). This means that the "casual armchair" crowd do not notably end up left mechanically miles behind the "elite hardcore" crowd; which is something that I greatly appreciate - I'll always be very thankful that the devs in CoH have never "gated" loot. - - - - - - My big problem at present with the Labyrinth is that whilst going there is optional, it's accessible from the Midnighter Mansion rather than one of the very high level hazard zones, and you initially get thrown in at insane practically unbeatable levels of difficulty right off the bat if you venture in there solo or with only 1-2 friends. And unbeatable challenges is not, IMO, what CoH is about. By all means ramp the Labyrinths' difficulty up drastically if someone chooses to enter it with a big team; or if the zone is highly populated by a large number of unaligned players/teams (RWZ is a good example here)... but if the zone lets you enter solo, and describes how a determined solo player can handle it, then at the very least a munchkin fully purpled T4 Incarnate build attempting to enter it solo should not get instantly one-shot without being able to do anything about it. There are other ways to implement variation in difficulty here- you could let the level shifts linger for longer (something I'm in favour of) or you could grant everyone that enters a passive "temporary power" that gives them additional level buffs whenever there are <X people in the zone; or provide an optional setting that if someone is unteamed can make the Minotaur much less damaging towards them (or outright fail to lock onto them and/or become untouchable to them). It is quite possible to provide a "challenge" here without letting soloers and smaller teams on low-population servers get kerbstomped into oblivion. Ultimately the Labyrinth looks like a very fun addition to the game and a viable alternative to AE mission spam - so I really would prefer if the majority of the CoH playerbase did not end up avoiding it like the plague just because "it's effectively an instant death zone unless you can get >X people together".

Foes of +4 and higher have, sadly, always been unpractical for MMs to fight. Unfortunately because the T1 and T2 pets are lower level than their owner they get disproportionately hampered by the Purple Patch. That disadvantage gets offset in incarnate content by automatically level shifting the pets up to become the same level as the Mastermind. But (despite the Minotaur having Incarnate tier buffs) the Labyrinth is not incarnate content. By Default the only level shift you'll have in there is the one that applies in all content (from a T3+ Alpha slot)... and getting more requires completing the various zone objectives. But as far as I'm aware your henchmen are always going to remain lower level than you within this zone. It's apparently on the Dev's radar to eliminate the pet level differences across ALL content, but we've not heard any updates on that aspiration recently (rebalancing is hard) so I'm not holding my breath for a magical fix any time soon. To make matters worse, a powerset that relies on debuffs (like Dark) is hampered much more than one that relies on Buffs due to the same reason - Purple Patch means you'll be dealing a fraction of your regular -ToHit to these mobs and they'll be getting additional ToHit buffs vs anything lower than -5 to them. Check what their final chance to hit you and your pets was in the combat log, if it's much higher than 5-10% then you're going to need additional help/buffs.

...and in most MMORPGs I'd be a fan of incredibly overpowered bosses where half the server has to club together to stand a chance of beating it. But not in CoH. I play this game to feel like a *proper* superhero, dammit. (OK, even if I'm playing a Level 50+1 T4 Incarnated fully-Purple-IOed-out min-maxed toon it might not always have to be a case of 'Superman vs Random Mooks' or even 'Superman vs Doomsday'... but stuff like this feels more like 'Snapper Carr vs the OG Juggernaut'... 🚑 ) I like the idea of trying out new content. But I don't like it being gated behind assembling a league simply in order to avoid being one-shot by a macguffin steamroller; especially whenever it's the one thing in the zone that I can't feasibly beat or at least survive an encounter with as long as I'm well-built and careful. But it seems that's much easier with the likes of Hamidon than the Minotaur. If I need to keep running older TFs and Ouroboros arcs in order to maintain the feeling of being "super" then... fine; I guess. Perhaps my head's just still stuck somewhere around Issue 7ish? 🙂

Aye the big killer is the effective level difference between the Minotaur and whoever he's hitting. The only way I can get Crushing Blow's ToHit chance to balance out at "89.24%" vs my VEAT is if the Minotaur's attacks are getting additional buffs on top of the big cow's listed base stats (+63.75 ToHit/150% Acc) and the level differences (against my VEAT who was -8 to the Minotaur it'd be getting +15% ToHit and +50% Acc). Whilst the exact values involved are tricky to pinpoint from a single data point (the required Accuracy decreases as the ToHit increases; but one example is roughly "+7.5% ToHit plus +50% Accuracy") the same attack versus a foe which is only -5 to them (e.g. your SR Tanker) would get its chance of hitting floored at somewhere between 60%-75% defence. Therefore with around 70% Defence to start with, I doubt you even needed the buff from Mind Link! So I'm in favour of lessening the level differences between Players and the Minotaur or making it less damaging/slower/etc whenever there are very small numbers of people in the zone (e.g. It's fine for it to be a major threat, but I dislike the idea of it being completely unbeatable and unsurvivable whenever the rest of the server is asleep...)

If you were Lv50+1 (Standard Incarnate with T3+ Alpha) and the zone was giving you another +3 then a Lv54+5 Minotaur would conn +5 to you. That's *just barely* squeaking into soloable territory for AVs - you'd be taking 155% regular damage and hitting them for 30% regular damage. So "Crushing Blow" should have been dealing about 2935 base damage to you; which a SR Tanker could theoretically get down to ~293 with enough scaling damage resistance - definitely survivable even without any outside healing. I'd be interested to know what the ToHit rolls were like though for you to be flooring their accuracy... there were no zonewide level shifts in play when my Bane encountered the Minotaur, but I was sitting at a smidge over 50% defense to all positions before being attacked (suppressing to a smidge over 45% whilst attacked). The combat log shows the Minotaur's "Cursed Plague" power apparently had a 95% Hit chance against me; and their Crushing Blow had a 89.24% chance. Even with 63.75% Incarnate ToHit chance and 150% inherent accuracy plus another 15% ToHit from the +8 level scaling, that still seems a tad high to me...

Have to say this was my experience too - the rest of the mobs are soloable slowly... but the minotaur ignores stealth (and largely ignores defence too due to the level scaling and inherent 150% Accuracy and 63.75% ToHit bonus) and kerbstomps you. It's not even a "slowly moving unstoppable steamroller"... the darn thing supersped towards me; and their very first attack would have one-shot me even without the effects of the "Diseased" debuff. In my second encounter with them a regular attack (Crushing Blow) dealt 3560HP worth of Negative Energy damage before my damage resistances; and that was at their minimum level of Lv54+5. Sure it's technically killable... but without oodles of friendly Level Shifts in play you're talking capped Tanker levels of MaxHP and Damage Resistance to survive even a hit or two from them - and that's before their apparently considerable amount of -MaxHP debuffs

Crossposting this here at the request of the One that Moogles and Googles: (In Short: a brief study in getting repeatedly punished by the Minotaur for daring to venture into the Labyrinth solo as a fully decked out level 50+1 T4 Incarnate VEAT. Although I did at least manage to record his inside leg measurements whilst he was continually stomping on my corpse...) As per this brief test and my earlier comments in the above linked thread: "I do not enjoy "random" severely punitive mechanics, even when offset by potential rewards (a classic example is a roulette wheel or "mimic" treasure box setup in other games where you are randomly either instantly killed or given a reward) and as a result, I do not enjoy running around in a maze with a level 54+10 archvillain behind me. That makes me feel like I'm a mouse stuck in a cage with a cat, not a powerful superhero.A [My Current Level]+5 Archvillain - who I have a chance of surviving and beating - sure. That's fine. And I understand that the objective of the zone is to team up and gain level shifts so that things get easier to manage.However those level shifts currently decay too rapidly for a small squad of heroes, let alone a solo one - I'm simply unable to put up a decent fight. On the larger population servers this might not be a huge deal, but not on Brainstorm in UK primetime hours it seems; and I expect the same will be true on Reunion once this hits live. So personally it would be very much appreciated if you could allow the Labyrinth level shifts to last 30 or 60 minutes, not five... or alternatively let their duration scale in inverse proportion to the number of active players in the zone." (I appreciate that this content is not intended for soloers/small teams, but unfortunately that's often what happens on lower-population servers; particularly whenever the bulk of the people on the Western side of the pond are asleep) 👍

Just hopped on to Brainstorm to retest. I was the only one there. My experience went pretty much like this: Pick a Glowy portal. Enter. Engage Stealth abilities. Run as fast as possible through all the doors. Last ~10mins before getting to a sufficiently open area to find a "Gladiator in the Fog" and be given a "Draft of Fog". After screenshotting the text of the Draft (below) I began to make my way back out into the main corridor, and spotted the Minotaur lumbering quickly towards me up the corridor. As I backed away it supersped towards me and one-shotted me despite all my Stealth, Fully T4ed Incarnate powers, +MaxHP accolades/set bonuses and considerable amounts of defence and damage resistance. My VEAT Bane has 1704 HP, >45% Defence to all positionals and 16.72% Toxic Resistance. "Cursed Plague Howl" from this thing still had a 95% chance to hit on me, and it dealt a base 2140 points of Toxic Damage with just the FIRST hit, plus the below debuff which lingered for several minutes after the fight (I suspect it's a 5 minute debuff but couldn't see a duration listed in the powers text) I was however able to raise and activate Surveillance; so I took a snapshot of the offending oik's powers before faceplanting a second time. Hurrah! I then raised (again) in the hospital, entered another (red?) coloured portal; popped up all my stealth abilities (-85ft in PVE total) and waited. Less than a minute later the minotaur appeared, ignored my stealth, and faceplanted me again. (I've 18.97% Negative Energy Resistance so that's a base 3560HP worth of Negative Energy damage he poked me with!) - - - - - - - - - - FWIW, here's what I got from Surveillance: (Note their perception radius is lower than my 85ft stealth radius, and their current level shift is apparently only "+5"!) And the "Draught of Fog" inspiration text: ...so yeah. Feels pretty much like I've just had a cheating (since they could see through my stealth and ignore my defence) nigh-unkillable Juggernaut repeatedly play Whack-a-Mole with my character's head. And whilst I understand the mechanics behind it (Purple Patch + AV scalars and resistances + Level Shifts), it was not exactly a Heroic or enjoyable excursion. If that is *really* the minotaur only at Lv54+5 (e.g. conning +8 to my poor Lv50+1 Bane) then I'd hate to see them at Lv54+10... 🤯