Replacement

You get a Thanks for being willing to engage in the conversation and to listen to another opinion. Frankly, I needed it to restore some of my faith in humanity.

@Sylar Point is, on any given page of this behemoth thread, there's a 40% chance you'll find someone complaining that the damage cap is too high. That it comes close to actual damage dealer levels, etc. The damage cap is just that: a cap. You shouldn't be able to reach it solo, you won't reach it in most party configurations, and when you do, it should put you to a level where you still perform at a certain level compared to other ATs with no sudden distortions. It would be outrageous to balance Tankers to "normally have very low damage, unless they're partying with a Kin." That would best be defined as an edge-case scenario. This is a balancing act (hence the term balance, I suppose) and it tends to boil down to two parts. 1) Expected and typical play is what you dial things around (this is why Captain Powerhouse has specified several times that testing these changes in fire farms helps him zilch) 2) You plug holes that allow for edge-case scenarios to arise. If one specific power in the entire game distorts one AT in a way it wouldn't for other ATs, there is an issue. If one armor set still isn't good enough after these changes (let's call it Stone Armor for accuracy), that's a set that should be looked at as an edge case underperformer.

How? I'm legitimately bewildered. Live Footstomp is 15'; Beta should be 16' Damage should be increased by almost 20% Target cap should be increased I'm iffier on the Gauntlet parts. My understanding of old guantlet was it was an aoe "attack" on targets hit. I always assumed this meant that if an aoe hit 3 people, then that generated 3 separate taunt aoes via gauntlet. If so, this is no longer the case: the new system aoes for single targets and "pokevokes" anyone hit with aoe attacks. The tradeoff is it should no longer have an accuracy check. If there's an ongoing conversation about the actual taunt and damage values being lowered, etc, I'm unaware of it. EDIT: OH. Are you saying in general, not in this patch, that Super Strength compared to other sets is nerfed? That, I could buy.

Most characters really can't rationalize a travel power at 4, though. It's nice they opened it up that early for those that require it for RP, but it's not optimal. I usually just aim to get mine before 20, for example, because that's when I have enough other options to get by. That's a really good point about characters that don't want a travel power at all. Perhaps an option of "do nothing" that gives you a free extra slot for swift and hurdle would be an option. If I haven't made my perspective clear enough: I'd really rather we had a prestige run that didn't affect your animations. I just don't understand people opposed to handing out thematic travel powers but not taking issue with Ninja Running Iron Man on every corner. It's easiest to see in Atlas Park, but don't think this means it disappears after that point. It doesn't take much digging around to find folks who never take travel powers because Ninja Run is too good.

@Communistpenguin @Redlynne You hold to these purist views but walk up to Ms. Liberty and look around. You will see at least 5 non-ninja characters pretending they're in a Naruto video game. This suggestion doesn't water down anything. It restores the game to its rightful fiction.

How the hell did you read what I wrote and think I was talking about Sprint? "Tom Cruise Run" does not damage anyone's fiction, lol. I was talking about Ninja Run and Beast Run.

I believe I had this pop-up when the game didn't know recognize my video card driver.

Dear Lord I would move both of those options to power pools if I could. I understand not having this be a priority for limited dev time, but consider what you're actually implying: "I am fine with needing to wait levels and expend a power selection on a heroic and thematic travel option, while giving everyone a theme-destroying ninja run for free, that is basically mandatory out of convenience." Both of those prestige travels are the poster child for revenue needs (they were sold as add-ons) damaging game fiction.

Upscaled, according to the conversation we had in the beta discord.

That's what started the never ending parade of inconsistencies. I'm sure I just should have been taking notes but it went from "I can't trust mids" to "I can't trust non-50 scales" to "I can't trust in-game tooltips."

Thanks for that. You've definitely cemented how much I wish we had 2 versions of Tanker on Pineapple. Unfortunately, my immediate and vehement response to that is a "hell no."

It's still a power choice, that should function. No one else has to earn their powers AFTER they've already purchased it. Plus, it just gets you to your target zone. You still have to hike through it yourself. So I don't see the draconian appeal of requiring all badges.

@Redlynne I would agree with your assessment if it were also packaged with a level-lowering. But the people who would actually be skipping through the world would be the people who sunk 3 powers into doing so. And it's still on a several-minute cooldown, right? I think it would be cool if LRTP only let you select zones for which you had at least one exploration badge for. This would not only ensure people explore the world (teleporters paying more attention to the lay of the land than others makes a poetic kind of sense), but it would also protect the uninitiated from accidentally sending themselves to places they really REALLY don't want to be.

The problem comes when all the numbers I'm referencing are apparently level 50. What I'll do in the meantime (and if I even get another opportunity to spend hours on the test server) is cut out all data and tools that aren't combat logs, and make and compare level 1 tankers - live vs pineapple. I was trying to validate the epic number changes yesterday but instead got lost in the woods of t1s having unexpected values. Unlike certain other posters, I'm not going to assume that means devs are lying to us about the intent of the changes (be wary of the feedback presented by anyone this willfully illogical), and will instead set to verify the numbers and report any failings.

So, obviously I wasn't there, but I think it makes sense why the SCORE devs seem so unhappy with Sentinel: it's in the midst of an identity crisis. The whole idea of changing modes reeks of a "jack-of-all-trades" character type. It's a mechanism for an AT getting to be great at nothing, normally, and it's supposed to use these mode changes to choose a specialty in the moment. It's actually a really neat idea... Except that's not what a Sentinel is. So the Opportunity effects we got were basically separate definitions of Sentinel: the Lookout, calling out weaknesses and openings (debuffs); the Sniper (that doesn't have any snipes), getting extra damage due to their keen eyes and aim; and the Bodyguard, jumping in the way of attacks, pushing their own survival tricks up a notch while they protect others. Cool, but isn't a sentinel all of these things? So they had a jack of all trades skeleton, but they put the skin of a Scout on it, and it's not a comfortable fit. Tl;dr: Opportunity is a mechanic for a generalist, and reading CP's posts, I don't think that's what a Sentinel is supposed to be.

@Captain Powerhouse -- I try not to at you TOO much but I feel this is legitimate... How hard is it to copy/paste an entire AT? I'm wondering how impossible it would be to have liveTanker and Tankertest as two separate ATs on Pineapple? I feel like it's a really tall order but I feel I should at least ask, because I spent several hours trying to test number changes yesterday and all I really discovered is there are too many variables to keep track of. I need the ability to auto-level live tankers, basically.

* stronger taunt * more endurance * better aoe radius, making it so you can effectively "juggle" the aggro cap * characters that are thematically "tankers" no longer feel like a self-inflicted nerf

You should report that as a bug. The rest of your post... I'm tired of rehashing what we discussed all last week.

Fortunately, you are wrong. (This isn't me trying to be aggressive, btw. I feel this is born from a misunderstanding and I need a way to grab your attention so you aren't spreading misinformation) Scenario #1: you're soloing. Vs ST or aoe, the results are the same: you now deal, at worst, the same damage (because Bruising's power boost has been baked into all of your attacks) and more likely, better (because the new increased damage multiplier is immune to Purple Patching). Scenario #2: you're partying vs a single big target. You lose some minor ability to increase your party's damage in exchange for contributing much more damage. And, again, any +Recharge, +ToHit, or +Damage effects from your allies are now more effective. Scenario #3: You're partying and fighting a big group. Obviously, these buffs will be noticeable. As I said a few pages back... And even this is likely underselling it. I'm guessing it'll be a minority (but still a plurality) of party setups that will see a slight hit to overall damage. And you know what? Find those setups, make them, and I bet you won't even notice the difference.

This is why you, particularly, are after a larger Taunt. I appreciate your enthusiasm for Stone Armor and your willingness to stick with it, but this is a perfect example of why Stone Armor is its own issue. Balancing the AT around this set and this limitation is asking for all other Tankers to be overtuned. I really hope Stone gets its own future pass, but it cannot be today.

@Captain Powerhouse Definitely very happy with these changes. They really open up a lot more build diversity and help with the Tanker thematics, so I feel like this is very successful. That said, it would be cool if at some point you could visit some of the tanker Epics and either buff up some of the things that were passed over (such as defense debuffs being untouched), or explain your logic in passing them over. This isn't an "explain yourself!" kind of thing. I find whenever you explain your insight, I tend to agree. About the -Recharge effects -- I agree it would be nice to buff any of these if they're underperforming and underpicked, but I am quite sure there is no "AT modifier" for -recharge potency, which means each one has to be balanced, decided, and coded by hand.

I can't believe I never thought of this.

https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Purple_Patch says an AV (which is supposed to be +5 at your level) takes the value multiplied by 0.3, which would be 6%. I'm welcome to being corrected, I just like an agreement on facts. As for losing damage vs AVs, .95 is gonna hurt them much more, and I think this point is important: offensive party buffs are no longer a waste of time to give your tanker! For every party composition that loses some damage vs AVs with this change, there will be another comp that is improved by it.

Is anyone in a position to take look at what base Mercurial Strike (Staff, t1) should look like on Live? Mid's says 37.37, I'm seeing 34.07 on Test. My live staff tanker isn't 50 so I think that's affecting it (because it's also lower), but while i'm at it, even though my Test tanker is 50 (leveled just to see if that was the problem), my training level is only ~35 atm. Could this be affecting it? Is mids' just a bit wrong here?

I feel like this conversation is 10 pages out-of-place. -20 resist vs an AV = 6-9.6% resist, and the other changes are worth it. Don't equivocate the Leadership/debuff boosts to Bruising. If Bruising is cancelled through their damage and aoe buffs (which we talked to death before this patch), then these buffs are captain powerhouse taking it a step further and giving us a gift to help Tankers feel a bit more unique. If you were the kind of player that liked being a debuff-y tanker, you now have a path to do that. Alert: I now feel compelled to point out to future generations: the next 3 pages is exactly two people against the loss of Bruising. Please do not take this as a majority perspective.