Monos King

Yeah, Acid Arrow is definitely in a good place either way. I think it could use slightly higher values to compensate, but outside of the to hit bumps noted earlier...everything else is really just putting ideas out and about. Great power.

Seen this suggestion before, would still love to see it.

Yes, but it is a minor thing so if it appeases everyone I don't see any reason not to do that. If it doesn't happen, TA players will still play TA, and if it does the same will happen, so it's not that big a deal. More importantly though... Currently we have from this power, zero affect on improving the survivability against 90% of bosses, lieutenants, and some elite bosses. And on those it does have affect on will resist the affect to the point it is trivial - which applies to all attributes of Acid Arrow. Fighting against a level 54 AV on a level 51 mastermind, archvillain to-hit went from 40.16 to 39.92. This is a difference of a mere 0.24 to-hit from something offering -30%. It would be more effective to actually just give Flash Arrow or any other debuff in the set an increase in values of something as low as 2.5, this would make them more effective than what Acid Arrow is offering at this moment factoring in the Rank and Resistance to Resistance isssues noted thus far. Of course, this is exactly what ordinary resistance debuffs already have to go through, and similarly just increasing an attacks damage would definitely do more than looking at it's influence under -resistance. If it were not for the fact this is the only source of -debuff res, and the fact that a large amount of enemies are simply unaffected by the survival increasing element of Acid Arrow, these wouldn't be as much of an issue. But if the goal is to make the debuffs empowered by Acid Arrow more effective, then them not being made much more effective or not at all more effective when they are most needed to be exactly that (mob of hostiles, fighting AV/GMs with a ton of health) isn't too helpful. When we actually need Acid Arrow most, it isn't doing anything, so I would think it should be made unresistable in exchange for lower values, perhaps. Then it wouldn't be as much of a loss that Lieutenants-EBs aren't much affected (to-hit wise), because AV/GMs actually are. Let it be clear the issue is still primarily the fact that not enough enemies can be significantly affected by Acid Arrow's -to hit changes. Everything else is somewhat a byproduct, and this just reveals another group that is not affected significantly.

That is good to know. Have you tested the differences in AV ability to hit using Flash Arrow vs using Flash Arrow + Acid Arrow?

Ok, so, here's a fun observation. Exactly like ordinary resistance, debuff resistance resists resistable -res. Looks like the tags need to be hit with the unresistable tag, unless this was intentional. If it was intentional, I do think it needs to not be, this isn't quite what I was expecting.

My apologies, as I noted, I saw that you were already agreeing with just swapping Disruption Arrow and Acid Arrow's effects but I just wanted to rebuke that statement before continuing, in the event someone else had a similar stance. Aside from the Flash Arrow portion and -def on entangling arrow, I enjoy your current proposals. This is great to know; I thought that the flag not to alert mobs and the fact that the attack did no other effects were working in tandem to prevent aggro. That changes a lot.

Malta Robots have To-Hit Resistance though.

They do, but as I was saying, leaving the -to hit debuff resistance debuff to something that situational is a bit problematic. Sort of like benumb, which only shines in PvP and against AVs/GMs. Considering it is still very effective against minions (bulk of mobs) and AVs I wouldn't call it priority; the combination between new Flash and Acid has been doing wonders for my survivability at all levels, but if something can be done to fix it I'm gonna say it should be.

It was not abundant in Trick Arrow, now it is. I acknowledged that Disruption would be a better thematic place for the debuffs Acid provides exactly once, and it was not nearly the bulk of my argument. It was just an observation. This would never happen. I really think you should re-read my post and positions in previous posts because I am one of the people most against entangling arrow being given -resistance due to thematic reasons, and stated it would be better off as -to hit. This will, however, not be rescinded anyway, and I made note of it here because while you were denouncing Acid Arrow for thematic discrepancies, I did not see any comments about your position on entangling arrow until now; I must have missed them. I know for a fact that this is an issue to precious little, though I am one of them, and Acid Arrows logic is far more agreeable having debuff res than entangling is having -resistance. Entangling having -def makes slightly more sense, but not enough performance to warrant the compromise in logic. People really don't want this. Much of the discussion about Trick Arrow has been actually condemning how Trick Arrows affects are everywhere; most desire one arrow for one task, and for these tasks to be easily determined...an arrow for everything. I personally don't care that much either way, but a quick look at this and other TA threads confirm this position. That wouldn't necessarily make sense. Acid Arrow is acid of unknown variety, Poison/envenom are just toxins (of similarly unknown make). There is room for exploration. Flash Arrow having chance to disorient isn't a bad idea. I like it. But it ruins the stealth of it. I think that a chance to hold in PGA would be a bit better. It definitely does not give anything to team-play to the extent acid arrow currently does, and the argument of "well there is already a lot of synergy in the game" being used to prevent Trick Arrow from gaining the ability to contribute to that (or actually have compatibility with the Primary/Secondary it's paired with) is a bad one. I feel it necessary to recognize this. Using your phrasing, your argument boils down to "let's keep Trick Arrow bad because it makes more sense that way". Without acid arrow's new effect, none of your proposals help Trick Arrows survivability, or patch up the weaknesses that the set is known for (like organization of affects), and you want the changes solely for thematic logic. You can make extrapolations and approximations of how these things would work, especially when it's for saving the performance of a weak set. It's a comic book game. I also think that when we do, they should be evaluated on a case-by-case basis the way we are now. Here is an example: Acid Arrow's origins are ambiguous, the current beta effects are better, alternatives are worst for the set currently in both solo and team play. It checks out. Entangling Arrow -res doesn't make much sense, the effects are currently better, alternatives exist. That one is iffy.

I believe that's what he's saying. If the lieutenant or boss had an additional source of -to hit resistance, acid arrow would still be useful, but the goal isn't to be situational in that way. As it stands, since all lieutenants and bosses both start and end with 10% or 20% -to hit resistance, using it will relegate the -to hit res portion of Acid Arrow completely ineffective...unless they for some reason have focused accuracy or something of that nature. So their floors are their base values. Interestingly enough, the -to hit res portion is useless 98% of the time on lieutenants, bosses, and most EBs, but still effective on minions, AV scaled EBs, AVs, and GMs - for different reasons. Don't think that's the ideal position.

I agree. With ice blast it'll definitely be kind of mundane no matter what and that's that, but I suggested earlier it should stack. That would help with other power combinations. Along the lines of making it more unique, I could only see it getting like a reverse gauntlet that reduces AoE potential, which would be somewhat niche, but as it stands Glue Arrow isn't bad at what it does.

I had suspected this might've been the case, similar to the inherent accuracy modifiers the NPCs receive. The original game literally never had subtractions to debuff resistance, so that's probably why it was never looked at. It's pretty troublesome though. Unless it somehow requires something crazy, like manually adjusting this for each NPC group, I think it's a good idea to get rid of the low cap, while keeping the values. Besides Bosses-beyond, all of them should get to be taken down to at least zero to-hit resistance.

Don't have much to say on the matter of immersion, technically disruption arrow would be a better candidate for acid arrows affects (besides -def) based off of the precedent this game has set for sonic and toxic powers. But that could be done by a quick swap. Are you suggesting restoring the -res to acid arrow would be an improvement as to the totally new and effective attribute it has now? You would be wrong there, extremely so. Trick Arrow doesn't need anymore -res. You just stated that you could only see Acid Arrow being a filler power for if the existing debuffs were not strong enough, and that this would be a sloppy resolution, but at the moment you are suggesting the same be done to prop up the sets -res. Entangling Arrow was actually given -res for essentially that reason, and as a t1 priority power anyway, it holds fine. Simple, not sloppy. Interestingly enough, though, your original claim is correct in one instance because... 2. This power secures mastermind. survivability. Corrs just need to contribute to the team, but masterminds need to keep their funeralphilic pets alive as long as possible. Acid Arrows -debuff res keeps MMs debuffs relevant and effective at higher levels with it's lower effect modifiers, while also allowing them and any TA character to be exceptionally desired. This is because... 3. Trick Arrow promotes synergy Acid Arrow is currently the most team augmenting debuff in the game. If acid arrow just gave some aisle 1, counter-top -resistance, then it would have minimal significance when enemies are already being debuffed by sets like cold and sonic or even other TAs, and would only be improving the teams damage. You can already do that. But with acid arrow? Acid Arrow you can improve EVERYONES -to hit, make their endurance drains matter, and for the first time EVER make their -regeneration, -recharge, and even +endurance cost more effective. This same power is the FIRST to be able to cut down the nigh immunity to debuffs archvillains and some GMs posess. It is synergy beyond the likes of Oil Slick Arrow, or PGAs interaction with -res. Get a band of TA together, and you'll be able to shut down AVs like never before. Would you really want to trade off a totally new way to affect enemies for a run-of-the-mill -res the set doesn't even need? In synopsis, Acid Arrow is necessary for MMs, allows entire teams to debuff stronger and effect enemies better, and is just generally better than -res. I am certain you will see this in due time.

Bug Report Enemies with built in To Hit Resistance are not affected by the debuff to their to hit resistance. This includes Crey Tanks and Circle Death Mages. Possibly a display bug.

Being a click heavy set, TA is bound to drain a lot of end. An issue arises, though, that it does drain quite a bit of end, but many of the powers are erroneously not even receiving the correct endurance penalty. People will actually be training and using many of these powers now, and with a mastermind that will be an endurance deficit hauntingly swift. That's one of the reasons EMP should probably receive a short, but substantial, +recovery buff in its repertoire. Perhaps even Disruption Arrow can take a page from EMPs dual-effect function and instead of decrease enemy max end by a little, increase ally max end by a lot. That might be a bit much though.

Trick Arrow: Bug Reports & Commentary Taken with perspective of a well-performing (Demons/TA) and decently performing (Ninjas/TA) Mastermind. Will begin with observations and will detail my findings and opinions towards the end. With this in mind, powers in Red are not affected by the mastermind endurance penalty, which is telling for later performance. These are also the first 4 powers listed, for ease of viewing. Those listed with an asterisk (*) have distinctly larger commentary. Disruption Arrow Fails to spawn in air (entity falls and takes damage, this is in stark contrast to live) Continues to Increase Max End rather than decrease it Maintains a brief (1-2s) stacking period Is not affected by mastermind endurance penalty -Max End is mostly useless if not a percentage value. Since it is unlikely to end up like Curse of Weariness, it should be replaced or just removed. Is not intended to stack. Could possibly stand to see increased -res for MMs and Corrs. Performs well. Ice Arrow Duration of -special is too long, and should be divided in half. Values for masterminds are good, recognizing eventual schedule changes these should be maintained. Is not affected by mastermind endurance penalty Is the prime form of mitigation for masterminds, particularly those whose AoE ruin Poison Gas Arrow. Needs a moderate duration increase. Debuffs are powerful and useful. Acid Arrow Is not affected by mastermind endurance penalty Doesn't include -resistance to defense debuff. Would not hurt to include, but is not necessary. Very powerful, requires no changes whatsoever. Attack Type tagged as "unique". Just an acknowledgement that this is a description most toxic powers are given. EMP Arrow* Is not affected by mastermind endurance penalty Could use a short (15s) large recovery buff Removal of self debuffs was excellent, and existing debuffs are fantastic. However... The conditions of its new buff, EMP Field, clashes with mastermind playstyles, and puts additional pressure on them. Currently, the ideal sequence of events to keep your pets alive would be to open with Flash Arrow -> PGA -> Acid Arrow (-debuff res) ->Go-To Command into the area of attack -> EMP Field. You would also like to use Ice Arrow on bosses or hard hitters in preparation of the EMP Arrow. However, EMP Arrows purpose as a CC actually clashes with its purpose as a AoE +res because CC is preventative damage mitigation, and the +res is to be granted in the midst of the fight. Essentially, you cannot buff your pets until you have already put them at risk. Not to mention, you are for some reason, unable to buff yourself. This could be remedied a few ways. Activate EMP Field at the casters location and not the location of EMP Arrows release. This would make it easy for the caster to receive their own buff, as well as prep pets before they are sent into the fray. This would, however, remove the newly added ability to buff from a distance. I do not consider this significant as this is how debuffs already function, and the alternative is superior for controlling how your allies are buffed. Would be more logical than currently; rather than an arrow that is hostile to enemies also being helpful to friendlies from the same impact, the local pulse is galvanizing and the receiving end of the arrow is debilitated. Convert EMP Arrow into a Select Location ability Downside is this would become another macro for people to create, which is apparently frowned upon. Would permit the ability to choose EMP as a buff before battle, or a debuff initiating it. Other downside is the former proposal and existing application both offer the possibility of both. Faraday Cage mechanic instead of click Downside is it would be a buff that lasts only one spawn, as EMP Arrow's recharge is too high to be used wave to wave. I consider Proposal 1 to be the best solution to this issue. It allows for control over who is buffed far easier, as allies don't need to be in the thick of battle to receive the benefit. It is also more realistic. Returning to individual powers: Glue Arrow Awesome power concept, works splendidly. Does not stack; needs to. This power is far from spammable, and would be perfect allowed to stack -recharge from the same user. Similar powers do, and this should be one of them. Entangling Arrow Awesome power concept, works well. Would be better off doing -to hit to help with survivability and theme. -Res definitely does add some damage to sets that require it though. Flash Arrow Perfect Power Concept. Resistable portion of -to hit could stand to be improved a bit, as mastermind sets that are not already survival strengthened are still a little bit doomed. This should also be done due to pets compatibility with Poison Gas Arrow. Poison Gas Arrow* Re-applying sleep patch is very useful. However... Poison Gas Arrow is still a totally useless form of mitigation for primaries such as Thugs or Bots (mostly when Assault Bot is acquired, and ineffective for most other primaries once they are a high enough level. When pets do not use AoE to continuously ruin Sleep, it is actually quite good for the pet survivability. Now, the goal of a power is not to be excellent with every other power, and some combinations (and archetypes) will simply be far more compatible with some powers than others. The nature of TA makes it not the best secondary for masterminds no matter how it is spun, and the improvements to this set are allowing masterminds to use Trick Arrow without it being any form of penalty. The most that could be done to help offset this is: Give Poison Gas Arrow tiny (~5%) chance for hold. (Masterminds Only) Increase Rech appropriately Slightly increase duration Since the gas is a re-occuring patch, the low chance will not be trivial, and could even stack with itself potentially. This is a change that would make it a far more effective power for masterminds. Oil Slick Arrow Operates perfectly, excellent extra damage. Like all masterminds, my demons and ninjas Trick Arrow characters survived and killed well at lower levels. They did notably at higher levels as well. With nothing but SO's and no incarnates (2x5 mission settings), playing a ninjas/TA MM had surprisingly decent survivability and fantastic damage. For those of you that do not know ninjas, this is ASTONISHING. They could benefit very little from PGA, however, and could die instantly if not monitored. Demons/TA under the same conditions also survived very well and did good damage. I am soon to test with mercs as their existing CC should make them the perfect combo with TA. It is also likely, however, they will die instantly when put into more challenging circumstances. Here are primaries that I predict will, simply by nature, have poor survival with TA. 1) Zombies (nothing to patch resistance holes well, no innate defense, but -tohit would be bolstered by Acid Arrow) 2) Thugs (should somewhat be remedied by their defense buffs and CC) (AoE ruins Sleep CC instantly). Definitely should dps to death enemies before they are killed, like ninjas, so should be fine. In short, TA is actually doing pretty well for most masterminds right now, though it could be made better with minor changes. It will not be super with any of them (outside of DMG) because it doesn't offer the best protection, but it is no longer a skip. It is now just another set with a specialty and some downsides, and that is fantastic.

Here is a note then: perhaps be more careful with your hyperbole. Going that far is easily subject to false comparisons and digression.

This is an entertaining addition. To avoid going off topic, why don't you DM me with the builds you are using to be an effective petless mastermind, I am genuinely interested. Please don't disappoint me!

That is news to me.

I've had some time to look at it, but I'll be doing more team play now as well. Right now it's MM survivability is still lackluster. Sleep is not usable to MMs, and the -dmg is pitiful if you do not have another source of further AoE -dmg. This other source however, often coming from pets, is subject to purple patch and rarely capable of keeping up pets. I am looking forward to trying this with (hilariously) mercs and demons, which should have the best compatibility with TA.

It's definitely odd. I call the fact that you ordinarily would stay at a distance irrelevant because in this unusual case that would be very unideal. You would want to enjoy the benefits of you debuff-buff. So in this case, and as long as it is, you just sorta have to dismiss that familiar approach. Just like -res in entangling. The buff pulse was added to EMP purely to amp performance. To that end it should also affect the caster. It doesn't make the most logical sense, but assuming we are going down that route, the feedback I have is in support of the EMP AoE affecting self, regardless of if we are used to staying at distance.

Oh. Well, yeah, giving an AoE powers affects for hostiles and homies alike was gonna be odd but if it works I suppose we'll just have to settle in. Not the first logical compromise I've accepted for this set to succeed.

You are saying you do not want the buff arrow to affect the caster are you not?

You definitely missed the updated patch notes so I'll deliver the good news. Oh it does -res, alright. Acid Arrow is now TA's set defining move. No joke. It does -debuff resistance. You know how AVs are practically immune to debuffs? Not if you get some TA's together, they aren't. It attacks their debuff resistance directly, making those immune vulnerable and those vulnerable even more vulnerable.

That doesn't make sense when the user is unleashing a beneficial power though, logically the user would want to be in radius of it too. Now that EMP offers a buff, for that power, whatever long distance affinity was engrained in theme is not relevant.