Monos King

@Tyrannical I am inclined to agree with Grey on that matter. I don't think he's a troll or anything. Since I've said what I needed to say here, I'll be bowing out now. Mercenary proposals are calling to me.

Interesting strategy, separating your summation from your thesis. Listen. Your initial post, as Ruby so kindly iterated, is littered with dissent. This is not a problem in of itself. Your proceeding refusals to acknowledge the constraints of the developers with comments like what you ended with, and your disrespect of them with comments like are what I am informing you of, are bad, and construe contempt whether you intended it or not. And your obvious rebuke to my statement that you made a contemptuous comment, was obviously a rebuke. I believe that you are conflating two different conversations. I am not angry - you could say that's in your head. But I already stated that your feedback element was perfectly fine. You are more than welcome to deny, to defy, to dismiss and to decry what I have said. But I'll put it very simply, and repeat myself. This comment right here - you'd be better off not making. You're barking up the wrong tree with this kind of comment. Here's the advice: Don't do it. Take it or leave it.

Don't state the obvious and frame it as a rebuke. Contempt, as with all feelings, are captured through interpretation. And there is a lot of reason to interpret contempt through what you said. Lead of which, is how you expressed that the volunteer development team with limited time and hours "isn't doing well to release content". There was nothing constructive in that sentiment. Do you think that you offering that opinion without feedback to the internal process is criticism? You are simply lampooning them for factors outside of their control. I say this for the sake of your good and well criticism being further acknowledged. Regardless of how you feel, your comment was not useful, nor something any developers so limited would like to hear. You hurt your chances.

I think your opening reasoning is very correct and your criticisms are to be considered, even if I disagree. But this comment right here - you'd be better off not making. You must not realize how absurdly wrong note it is. Think about why, at least from your perspective, that might be. Realize that what you just said was not criticism, it was contempt.

I will be clear, the potential issue is that the two powers clash and not any measure wanting more stealth. The example of Superior Invisibility and Arctic Gust is the prime one, as the only reasonable cause of them not stacking originally would be to prevent too much stealth, but Superior Invisibility already does that on it's own. This is interesting because right now it it is mostly powers whose primary purpose isn't stealth that are subject to the lack of stack. Such as arctic gust, steamy mist...whereas Hide, a true stealth focused move, does. This is besides the point, though. It seems outdated that stealth moves that are not explicitly the same (Shadow Fall vs Invisibility, Steamy Mist vs Superior Invis) can't be used with each other. Whatever reasons for that don't hold up. There are those that are the same and shouldn't stack (Superior Invis vs Invis, Tactical Operative vs Stealth, idk about VEATS), but the AoE stealth moves might as well.

Pretty much that. It occurred to me that this would occur with superior invisibility and secondary AoE +stealth and went and tested it for myself. It is rather lame that you're forced to pick one or the other for essentially no reason considering what the powers offer and the state of concealment powers and options currently.

Yeah it is the first, but what's really puzzling is that stealth stacking couldn't be the reason they are prohibited from stacking because Superior Invisibility is the strongest in the game and automatically puts you at the cap.

I must say, I'd like to see that for quite a few temporary powers. Probably not the super OP ones...but that'd be cool. Edit: Not something I'm calling for myself, but with things like warburg nukes? If you still only get one charge per missile launch itd probably actually be fine. The nukes have long recharge and are unavoidably tedious to get.

I get Stealth + Invisibility being a no-go. How do we feel about powers like Arctic Gust still not being able to be used with powers like Superior Invisibility? Steamy Mist and Invisibility? I always thought having powers from secondary and primary just outright clash was odd. Is this something that should be reconsidered?

Ok we're off topic a bit but real quick...I don't know about that, and tanks really don't need to be more impervious to harm than they already are. On paper sure, hitting the soft cap and beyond will let only 5% of damage in, but it's not like the damage is a constant stream. There are attacks that slip through that will just instant murder you, which becomes more and more likely the more enemies you are surrounded with. You only have so much health, and as this very threads purpose is in proclaiming...luck is not always on your side. In fact, it's inevitable that it won't be. Try facing AVs with damage buffs like Statesman TF Lord Recluse, Miss Liberty, Aeon, or even the ones with build up or -res. Or even run into a fire farm. You're not about to be doing better with SR or Energy armor than you would with Radiation or Elec. I think you have a point about it being better for squishies due to the nature what not being hit can protect against, but it's definitely not the case for the melees. Res with some def is nearly always better than def with some res.

This is the funnest thread in a while. Here's something to keep in mind. The game is a fictitious simulation of reality; because it is fiction you can abridge physical reasoning infinitely to fit or dismiss anything *cough* Entangling Arrow *cough*. You can argue whether or not it makes sense in real life all you want but it won't matter because in translation to game, both sides will be right. This is why when making logic related changes you instead look at precedent and balance. Example: it mostly makes sense for psychic attacks to never miss, but as it's a game and that would be poor balance since there are other powers that would still miss, it's off the table. Instead, very few armors have def/res to them. Example: various powers could (and do) apply -defense logically, but the game primarily thematically limits it to moves that explicitly pierce or bypass armor (radiation, swords, bullets, etc.) In the end though, the logical criteria for -def and -res become so interchangeable in many places, that you see overlap. Logic can not be universally applied into games because you can't factor every straying element of reality, so you stick to what you can control. You leave your game mechanics to be an approximation of the infinite possible factors (like what if they slow down, or slip, or has a burst of energy) and move on. The only argument to really discuss here is whether or not removing the cap is OP. Personally, no opinion. This is exciting though.

Hilariously enough, I was just talking to Galaxy Brain about this exact idea. We were also discussing more weird ideas like defiance adding status resistance or other inherents adding health-scaling status protection. I'm personally all for increased Mez Resistance; people don't really talk about it and it's much more manageably potent.

The major concerns there are on top of everything I stated before, some of which you have yet to respond to. I mentioned in that very post that mez applications are generally "one and done". This means you rarely need anymore than one, or enough to shrug off 1 or 2 applications. You don't get assaulted that often. Powers like Clarity are there to allow you to fight through and survive mez. When you can already do this, you are contributing as normal, attacking enemies, likely from a distance, or escaping, and not getting mezzed again. I know this very well because I have the funds to have experienced Defense Amplifiers, which if everyone always had, would do the same and already raises brows. That is the effect of +4 status effect protection, which will shield you from up to 2 mezzes ordinarily, and when combined with existing methods it infringes on their territory even more. Not to mention, the below applies. As has been noted in various previous responses, squishies have other options. It is not laughable, you are ignoring the many other available options squishies have because you desire a melee playstyle on them, and fail to realize the significance of increased mez protection that is extremely coveted for this very reason of how potent it is. You should begin reading those responses. There is a reason a properly specced corruptor is a god of soloing. Because of the design of the game, it is not even remotely subjective. Your opinion on it is literally that, and thus subjective, and you need to do a better job addressing the above two concerns if you expect to get the squishies any additional protection outside of what they have. The "it's not fun" argument is the only one that has had any remote relevance thus far, as you have been rinsed with examples of how squishies can and do address mez, and dismissing the balance problems above so poorly doesn't add to it.

It's interesting you say that, because a thought came up to me while I mentioned the "team play is how the game is balanced around" note earlier. I wondered, "if that's the case, then why does mez protection on squishies matter?" They already get it in teams, and unlike res/def buffs it's essentially one and done unless your under intense enemy fire. Why not provide it in solo play too? But I realized it's still exactly because of the team play based balance. So here are my major qualms for everyone. Granting squishies greater and inevitable mez protection steps on the toes of the support classes. Why would you even pick up a power like Clear Mind or Clarity when everyone already has the protection. If the OPs suggestion, it would be locking these powers usefulness to only lower levels, and if a more universal installation of mez protection were given, it would be be useless entirely. It would be useful only to Masterminds for their pets (who rarely get them), or in the AoE powers that offer a mez protection along with resistance/defense. We can discuss that issue. Granting squishies greater and inevitable mez protection will make squishies too potent. This is ok in team play with the corresponding increased difficulty (lets forget incarnates we already know difficulty is erased by it) but just isn't the intention for them in solo play. They have other options. Squishies not having mez protection isn't a flaw, so any available options to give it to them can't be poor solutions - they are not seeking to remedy a problem. Just offer additional options for those particularly interested. This one is aimed more specifically at @arthurh35353 Anyone trying to get something like this through, the first 2 above are probably the first to address.

Ok that's what I expected. There's no way a non armor class would out solo an armor class without themselves having armor, but once they get defense and survivability from like IOs and epics it'd be a different story. Summary of my feelings on this topic: I don't mind blasters and other squishies getting some sort of and or greater mez prot options in a separate power like Indominable Will and Acrobatics, but still don't think they deserve or need any additional mez protection from the basic epic armors. The ATO mez protection idea being proliferated is also pretty cool.

VileTerror. I often see your profound efforts to assist the devs and address community concerns. You are probably one of the most involved players, and I am certain you're appreciated greatly. But I imagine this feedback is too general to be helpful to anyone. You are essentially stating the developers should "do what is good because otherwise people will be upset". This isn't anything they don't know. Because of those factors you noted, and so that they can be closest to legitimate, there is a process. Not everyone can be involved in every step. Those that are paranoid will continue to be paranoid because they don't trust the process, but they don't trust the process because they are paranoid. It is an interesting statement to the profoundness of the accessibility of the developers that the community can even gain insight into more internal activities to complain about to begin with, something that really doesn't exist in other games, and very telling to those same developers that there is still so much resentment. The developers have been so forthcoming, that if there is any withheld information at all, regardless of purpose, it is clandestine. Only a mentality shift will fix that. There aren't any rewards for "good behavior" that could ever be meaningful or even appropriate in that they wouldn't seem child tailored. People should behave courteously, or be removed. To that end, I do agree with letting people know why posts have been moderated. There should be a reactionesque notification immediately with reason, that pops up on a new tab next to messages and notifications called Moderation, and there the removed comment and reason should be documented. Hidden posts as well. This would do little to alleviate peoples disdain of being moderated, because obviously 90% of people think it wasn't in violation of rules (hence posting it), but it would offer some of that ever cherished transparency. But there is no place for anyone who assumes they are right, and ignores the evidence of the other side. Someone who believes there is or were a "secret club" answer me this, I am violently curious. What purpose would there even be to this structure on a video game? Do you believe there to be an exclusive sect where a few players tailor the game to their interests? How would this help the HC team? I do not understand.

Well, that's because the roles are divided by AT and not strictly position (melee vs ranged). Low damage high survivability is really only tanks, and kheldian dwarfs, literally everything after that will do medium to extreme damage with the exception of defenders and most trolls. What keeps that damage potential in line are limitations to survivability - health, armor, and especially mez. You see that observation in the OPs complaints about mez lowering dps, who didn't realize it's a very intentional balancing element. The classes with armor will definitely be soloing better because they don't have to be as watchful. But the game isn't based on soloing, it's based on what you can bring to the team. More importantly though, what level were those runs conducted at? And what difficulty settings. This is important because there are challenges squishies simply aren't entitled to triumph in.

Side note but I would love to see confuse come into play more it. It would ruin people.

This is actually the first counter suggestion I made, and I believe it would work fine. No. It's been stated previously, but ranged ATs have their own means of defending against mez via the nature of their play styles, which melee classes do not. Much much more importantly, melee ATs act as tanks. It would not do for them to be getting mezzed without great effort or power on the enemies end, and thus they have a permanent source of protection. Inspirations are a convenience to help fill in for the intended weaknesses of an AT or build, which is why he stated break frees to be there for the OPs usage.

Most do, yeah. Devices, mental, electricity, and temporal are the only ones that do not get some type of mez prot. Blasters get all that going for them, and defenders do too in the form of their AoE toggle protections.

Well, to that I direct you to what I said before about means of dealing with mez. Like I said, there are strengths and weaknesses to playing certain ATs. To make a long story short, you aren't entitled to any degree of mez protection playing a squishy because that's one of their attributes with their role in mind, and even so you can still receive protection from various different sources. It's up to you to invest in them, and making it essentially guaranteed in the form of armor is both too strong when paired with some of the other means available, and really just not appropriate to begin with. At the end of the day, you're a squishy, not a tank. Don't know what else to say but that.

@arthurh35353 Ooooh that ones my bad, I mispoke. Definitely defense amplifer. What's your global, I'll send you 10m to purchase the right ones.

Do this for your sake!!

No objections here. Defenders getting a mez ATO shouldn't be an issue even though they can already get indomitable will. People were even just talking about possible ideas for a 3rd set of ATOs (max of up to 2 ATO sets per character) this could be a possibility for one if people really wanted it. It still isn't necessary, though. Edit: You definitely need to do research into amplifiers though. Their cost scales to level and they have various benefits.

You just described what you don't like about being mezzed and not why the existing means for avoiding being mezzed are not to your liking. I'll also include a small example of balance issue with this suggestion, since you asked. You stated you don't want to have squishies becoming immune to mez. Well, if you factor in some other available mez protection/mitigation options to a blaster... Defense Amplifier +4 Mez prots (all) Blaster ATO stackable +3 Mez Prot (all) Acrobatics + hold prot Blaster knockback not resistable by bosses Blaster mez, stackable. Will affect bosses Blaster damage, will shred bosses and everything else And now you have a very much immune to mez blaster who murders everything. This is how it can already be without your proposal. Obviously not everyone is going to get acrobatics, but every other option is possible for any build, and that's just blasters. This is why I don't think it is necessary. There is, even with the above, some degree of strategy that is still preserved (amplifiers are honestly OP), and it is sufficient for mitigating the leveling pains better than adding it to epic armors. With it in epics, it's too much.