Black_Assassin

Yeah same 😂 I was dirt poor for a serious length of time until I read some guides on how to use the market. This was all before AE made it easy. Correct, but only because that was the meta. Like proc loading is meta today. Both had their own inherent issues that can be called "broken" if you want to call it that. Perhaps, perhaps not. Guess it's speculation at best. I could be wrong, but my understanding is that the original PPM system didn't take slotted recharge into account and that was something added by HC. So perhaps the devs intended originally for full sets to be slotted but the ppm system would mean that that slotted recharge didn't affect proc rates and therefore we wouldn't be punished for it. I will say that very quickly people would have begun proc-loading so there would have had to been a decision made quickly if that was something that is wanted or not. Perhaps there would have been a 1 damage proc per power limit imposed, maybe they would have been totally happy with the damage limits being pushed with procs like they are today. 🤷 Yeah I hear you on that. I personally cannot pin down and put my finger on exactly what has moved the meta towards where it is, but I think there are a few things at play that I can say have helped. PPM is one, as it has opened up builds to have the option of slotting more procs instead of set bonuses. Full set bonuses are only really useful for chasing two things. Global recharge and defenses. The former is still something that is in favour in the meta to some degree. You still see 5 set purples/full set preventative medicine reactive defenses etc. However it's changed somewhat due to the PPM system making FFB +rech proc grow in usefulness and removing alpha spiritual from usefulness due to it lowering proc rates too much. So perma hasten just isn't that important when ageless core and FFB exist to close that gap that grew from spiritual falling out of favour. Regarding defense bonuses, the slot tax you have to pay to reach them no longer confer the survivability they used to. This is due to another HC change (i27p4 typing vector changes) that really put the nail in the coffin for the old S/L defense build meta that used to cover almost everything in the game. Accept your amplifier and inspiration overlords 🙌😂 I guess we need to define broken. I don't think it's a good word to use because it's quite emotive. I don't have issues with reeling in performance outliers if it makes sense though. Hard agree on this. Also need to bring up the usefulness of the low level procs that aren't useful due to their low ppm and low mag. The various mez procs come to mind, like the various stun procs etc.

Can I suggest that you gently probe the group for a volunteer who runs ahead to sacrifice themselves for the good of the other members. They get the special title only for them "Vengebait"

According to the wiki IOs came back in i9 which was 2007, so we had normal SOs for 3 years before IOs came along, and then IOs until sunset circa end of 2012. So really IOs have been around an awful lot longer than you think. Procs back then were just flat rates. 20% I think was the equivalent of the current 3.5ppm ones but I could be wrong. Then PPM changes was set to come out in i24 but then game closed so it wasn't until HC that we got it AFAIK. Well the super secret server, but that's beside the point. That's partly true, cannot fully refute that. The case in points are defenders and scrappers. Defenders really don't benefit much from slotting damage into their powers, the scalar is weak and it just doesn't do an awful lot. Scrapper damage on the other hand benefits quite a lot from max ED dam. Defender damage can be really supported by lots of damage procs, scrapper damage is lower on 6 damage proc slotting than 2 acc/dam and 4 procs. That's fair. For most of the existence of IOs, procs were Bob Ross' happy little accidents that were nice to go off when they did. They didn't bend the damage curves much since they were random and either did or didn't happen. The PPM changes were part of i24, which was the patch to "fix all things". So one assumes that PPM was they way the OG devs wanted the game to go in. We have that system now, albeit in a slightly nerfed format. I do appreciate this point you are making though. I guess we are talking here about vibes and concept and, to some extend, head cannon/RP/immersion. That's never been my cup of tea, for me procs = more orange numbers exploding above my targets and therefore my dopamine addicted monkey brain likes them. Would procs be "fixed" or "less broken" for you if their damage and the power damage was all combined into 1 single number over a targets head purely for the purposes of decluttering visuals? (it would have no impact on damage logs) Reading the wiki, it does seem like the original devs wanted to do something with procs and to have them go off with a larger chance in longer recharge powers. So really they are part of the game and we are expected to use them. We now have that, but as always in games the player base finds the best ways to utilise in game systems and maximise their outputs. So now we have a situation where everything that can most effectively utilise damage procs has been or is in the process of being nerfed/removed/neutered. Which is a shame imo, but there needs to be a line drawn somewhere I guess? But then...we are super heroes, why shouldn't we be strong? Rambles from me, but I do welcome others views on it. It's an interesting subject.

My standard pool choice on everything that isn't a melee character and therefore probably has fighting is Hasten, SS CJ cTP, TP, FS Man/Tac/Veng Always gotta be teleporting to target and spamming veng to get it off before they rez 😂

It's not so much that extra damage is being chased here but the extra mag 3 confuse cloud. If the proc rates are affected then the question is: does the effective doubling of the area coverage constitute a net buff or a net nerf when you consider the lower proc rates will essentially mean the proc goes from firing (on a 16 man spawn) on 6.4 $targets vs 4.5 $targets. That confuse mag cloud can really help spread mag about a group if they are tightly clustered on you for the 8ft radius to be leveraged, but obviously you need much less positional awareness with a 15ft toggle but the mag spreading is diminished. 🤷🤷🤷🤷

Will this increase in radius of the non-damage portion of the toggle lower the proc rates of said power? Looks like 39.5% proc rate vs 27.9% proc rate in coersive persuasion for 8ft vs 15ft toggles.

I'm interested to know how procs are "broken" tbh. I hear this kind of sentiment a lot but there's nothing beyond that anywhere on the forums that actually lays it out.

The hate on vengeance when it's just the perfect single slot lotg mule 😢

Titan weapon axe skins are sweet as too

Kinda sucks but it's not wrong. Changeling is the only thing that keeps kheldians afloat.

No bloody wonder I couldn't find this today 😠

Well, you tank 17 targets. After that the Blasters take the rest of the aggro, so hopefully they don't pull more than 1 mob, because at that stage you want damage so you can kill your targets to take new aggro on. 🤷

Bear in mind this post was from 2023 and it was technically an underlying bug that others could apparently abuse, just that it was quite visible on Kheldians. So it wasn't something unique to them, they just were well known to be able to visualise this bug easily. But clearly it is not an issue with the developers or the huge number of people who use it so take from it whatever you wish. I will continue to laugh the the player the OP highlighted who has a massive rage boner over changelings and cannot help but talk about them nonstop at every opportunity.

Whilst you guys were busy with this thread I did some digging because I was interested. Apparently there was some kind of game breaking "exploit" that was being used by some other people in the game for other purposes but I couldn't find any specifics on it, I do have the numerous Dev posts in the discord referring to what are now known as changeling binds/macros.

Probably easier to just put he who shall not be named (but we all know who it is) on ignore list then you don't need to worry about his hate boner over changeling binds/macros.

@Maelwys has been renamed to @CandyCrush

Whoever designed this specific UI configuration needs to be soundly paddled. Anyone who uses this UI configuration needs to be admitted to hospital.

Shield will shift upwards in the pecking order.

So we just target things "top tier" Looking forward then to the cold nerfs and the kinetics nerfs (we already having the marine nerfs with this patch) Probably elec affinity and force fields to follow shortly after once they become top tier? Do we follow up bio nerfs with reverting stone, elec, dark buffs and shield buffs? Because they would then become top tier since we are trimming bio and rad from the top? I'm being facetious, but my point stands and has been said by others earlier, why nerf what is "meta"? How does bio being as good as it does affect the wider player base?

@Maelwys sure sure. But now we just shift over to shield defense scrappers. Or stone scrappers. Or fire scrappers. Why nerf anyway? The game isn't competitive, nobody gets affected by bio doing what it does do they? Why isn't the effort in picking things up vs pushing things down? Feels a bit meh investing time and effort into something to have it nerfed, now I'm in the process of PLing shield scrapper to replace the bio one.

What data? We never get provided any data. It isn't like a normal game where you have win rates or some other metric to use to determine things like "performance". The best we have on COH is DPS measurements. Which Bio wins because that is what Bio does. If there was some kind of survival metric I doubt bio would be in the line to be taken out back. The damage boosting capabilities of the set is why it is so popular. It was why Rad armour was so popular. Fire armour would be more popular if it had a touch more survival, but I think these upcoming changes will bring it back to forefront. Although I am happy to change my mind if there is some kind of data metrics or testing protocols out there that I have missed, that is always a possibility.

seems weird to make changes that affect all applications of playing bio armour based upon a completely and totally optimised singular application of playing bio armour skewed by the assumption of 7 barrier rotations, 3 sets of cold shields a permanently saturated fulcrum shift and a team of tactics.

Can you see anything if you're in a tropical storm? I think not. I approve of this concept too, gimme yuge tohit debuff on that big ol storm and some trawl to counter act the mad running away that happens. (are more lightning 😢)

I do also have a storm/storm corruptor I could copy across to beta to compare too if that is wanted.