Scarlet Shocker

I played a Beasts/Rad MM and I found that to be really tricky because it has no shields to keep your pets alive. It has other compensations and as we know, some wicked debuffs but once a boss starts wailing deteminedly on your minions they've few places to go but down. Try it and see how it works for you

So I was trying to edit a post - and guess what happened next? Colour me extremely annoyed but thanks for all your inputs thus far. Here's a build I've come up with that I'm pretty happy with (on paper at least) - it soft caps to S/L and has not one but two panic buttons which (should) make me almost invincible in a need to run and hide scenario whilst allowing my pets to deal out a rake of good damage and debuffs. Let me know what you think guys, thanks Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Hot Dogs: Level 50 Natural Mastermind Primary Power Set: Beast Mastery Secondary Power Set: Thermal Radiation Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leaping Power Pool: Force of Will Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Summon Wolves -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(5), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(11), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SphIns-%ToHit(15) Level 1: Warmth -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(3), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(7), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(15), NmnCnv-Heal(17), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(17) Level 2: Fire Shield -- GldArm-End/Res(A), GldArm-RechRes(21), GldArm-ResDam(23), GldArm-3defTpProc(25) Level 4: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(5), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(29), LucoftheG-Def(31), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(46), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(48) Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(7) Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(9) Level 10: Weaken Resolve -- SphIns-%ToHit(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(11) Level 12: Train Beasts -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 14: Cauterize -- Prv-Heal(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx(19), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg(19), Prv-Absorb%(27) Level 16: Plasma Shield -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), Ags-Psi/Status(21), Ags-ResDam/EndRdx(23), Ags-ResDam/Rchg(27), Ags-EndRdx/Rchg(31) Level 18: Summon Lions -- SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(A), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(33), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SvrRgh-PetResDam(34), EdcoftheM-PetDef(34) Level 20: Project Will -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(25) Level 22: Thaw -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), ImpSki-Status(31), ImpArm-ResPsi(36) Level 24: Fortify Pack -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(29) Level 26: Summon Dire Wolf -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(36), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(36), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(37), PcnoftheT--Rchg%(37), AchHee-ResDeb%(37) Level 28: Forge -- GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg(A), GssSynFr--ToHit/EndRdx(34), GssSynFr--Build%(39), GssSynFr--ToHit(39), GssSynFr--ToHit/Rchg/EndRdx(48), GssSynFr--Rchg/EndRdx(50) Level 30: Call Ravens -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(40), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(42) Level 32: Unleash Potential -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(42) Level 35: Heat Exhaustion -- Acc-I(A), RechRdx-I(42) Level 38: Melt Armor -- ShlBrk-DefDeb(A), ShlBrk-Acc/DefDeb(43), ShlBrk-Acc/Rchg(43), ShlBrk-DefDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(43), ShlBrk-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(50), ShlBrk-%Dam(50) Level 41: Tame Beasts -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 44: Scorpion Shield -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(45), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(45), Rct-Def/Rchg(45), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(46), Rct-ResDam%(46) Level 47: Power Boost -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(48) Level 49: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(9) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(3) Level 1: Alpha Howler Wolf Level 1: Howler Wolf Level 1: Pack Mentality Level 18: Lioness Level 26: Dire Wolf Level 0: Marshal Level 0: Invader ------------ ------------ Set Bonus Totals: 10.5% DamageBuff(Smashing) 10.5% DamageBuff(Lethal) 10.5% DamageBuff(Fire) 10.5% DamageBuff(Cold) 10.5% DamageBuff(Energy) 10.5% DamageBuff(Negative) 10.5% DamageBuff(Toxic) 10.5% DamageBuff(Psionic) 16.63% Defense(Melee) 10% Defense 11.31% Defense(Smashing) 11.31% Defense(Lethal) 19.13% Defense(Fire) 19.13% Defense(Cold) 9.13% Defense(Energy) 9.13% Defense(Negative) 6% Defense(Psionic) 12.25% Defense(Ranged) 35.06% Defense(AoE) 3.75% Enhancement(Max EnduranceDiscount) 35% Enhancement(Accuracy) 6% Enhancement(Heal) 58.75% Enhancement(RechargeTime) 22.5% SpeedFlying GrantPower Preventive Medicine (10% chance, if Scourge) 153.6 HP (19.13%) HitPoints 22.5% JumpHeight 22.5% SpeedJumping Knockback (Mag -3) Knockup (Mag -3) MezResist(Confused) 71.25% MezResist(Held) 71.25% MezResist(Immobilized) 71.25% MezResist(Sleep) 71.25% MezResist(Stunned) 71.25% MezResist(Terrorized) 71.25% MezResist(Teleport) 100% (20% chance) 11.5% (0.19 End/sec) Recovery 52% (1.74 HP/sec) Regeneration 15% ResEffect(SpeedFlying) 15% ResEffect(RechargeTime) 15% ResEffect(SpeedRunning) 44.5% Resistance(Smashing) 44.5% Resistance(Lethal) 46% Resistance(Fire) 46% Resistance(Cold) 28% Resistance(Energy) 28% Resistance(Negative) 31.75% Resistance(Toxic) 42.75% Resistance(Psionic) 22.5% SpeedRunning | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1565;742;1484;HEX;| 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I don't think a Mercs/Rad would be so horrible. If they stay alive long enough you could kill most tough enemies

Don't hold back, say what you really think! We can handle it 😉 I've never understood Petless MMs - deliberately gimping your character seems to be deliberately stupid.

figures, thanks

Many will advise the classic Fire/Kin or Fire/Rad as being the OP trollermonsters - which is true, though I've never played them to high level. I have played many many trollers during my time, and some are so much fun it's not even funny. Some of my most potent have been; Mind/Storm - not much obvious damage but psionics is rarely resisted, and storm is great at throwing stuff about so you can get some very interesting combos. Earth/Thermal - this is exceptionally powerful as a support character, with some amazing debuffs and very solid holds but don't try soloing it - damage is sub par and whilst you can lock down the map you'll get bored tickling your victims to death. Dark/Poison is insane fun. Dark is very potent (even if you don't like the dog) and poison is great at ST debuffs. It also works very well in PVP with an ordinaryPVE build, so you get double bang for buck Fire/TA - very underrated (actually most TA is underrated IMO) as being lots of fun and remarkably good synergy, especially when you get Oil Slick Arrow. Plant/TA as above but with added tentacles and a very solid confuse. Good for soloing. there are many many others, you've got a wide combination of sets to choose from. I'd guess in principle, a controller is a team player. Once the tank's grabbed the aggro you can lock them down, and let everyone else rinse through them. Have many funs with your experimentations. I'm currently levelling my 70s disco queen "Earth Wind & Fire" who is insanely fun and remarkably robust even pre-IOs.

Thanks! So is there any indication of which is which in its description, or do we simply need to know?

Thanks, that's useful. So to be clear (not that I exemplar often) if I then catalyze my procs and special IOs they will work down to 3 levels below their minimum level? or do they just work at every level above 7?

Apologies if I've missed this in the long thread. I must admit a lot of what I read here made my brain melt, but it's incredible info. How do I know if a Proc needs to be in an active power? Is there something in its description (I've not seen anything in Mids or in game) that tells me. What about PReventative Medicine? I do not understand the "If scourge" condition. Does it only work for Cruppers or what?

Rad's biggest issue as an MM secondary is its lack of shields.

I had not realized until very recently that Freezing Rain is exactly the same as Sleet but you get it considerably sooner. On my Demons/Cold, it's an excellent tool for mitigating the damage. Send the demons in and then plaster Sleet down and nobody can fight them. I see Storm in a similar vein with a good pet buff and a few "don't come anywhere near me" powers.

I have a Mercs/TA character who I'm currently levelling and it's pretty ok. It will never be a "Solo all the things" type character but it's an excellent support toon, laying down ok damage and some excellent crowd control. On live I had a Fire/TA troller who was very effective and I'm not seeing this one as hugely different. Thus far!

I figure there's 105 different combos of MM as the game stands currently. What's the worst? By which I mean the least capable, the most horrible to play, the least effective? And why? And why did you play it as long as you did?

how does that prevent him from running in to facetank the enemy which is what he seems to be doing now?

on my Demons/Cold I have Frostwork for 2 reasons: It's a very fast recharge, and a good boost to HP/Regen. I can pop it on all my pets over a routine and I slot it with Numinas boosting my own regen with very little cost

I was playing my Thugs/Dark (aka The Goons of Gloom) last night and I noticed that the Arsonist seems to have a propensity for committing ritual suicide almost every single encounter. He just runs into mobs with complete disregard for his safety, maybe getting to lob one Molotov at them and then he's gone, wrecked by his own hubris. My other two thugs seem relatively sensible in comparison, and stay back wielding their pistols well. I know this was patched just recently but this does seem to be aberrant behaviour, what's the best way to prevent him doing that?

I've come up with this - there are obvious holes in it but it's something to go at. Constructive commentary welcome and encouraged. Feel free to post alernative builds too. Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! A Thug With No Name: Level 50 Mutation Mastermind Primary Power Set: Thugs Secondary Power Set: Dark Miasma Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Force of Will Power Pool: Leaping Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Call Thugs -- SprMarofS-Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(3), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg(3), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx(5), SvrRgh-PetResDam(5), EdcoftheM-PetDef(7) Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(11), CldSns-%Dam(13), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(13) Level 2: Tar Patch -- PcnoftheT--Rchg%(A), PcnoftheT-Acc/Slow(15) Level 4: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(15) Level 6: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(17) Level 8: Weaken Resolve -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(17), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(19) Level 10: Equip Thugs -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 12: Darkest Night -- CldSns-ToHitDeb(A), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(19), CldSns-Acc/Rchg(21), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(21), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(23), CldSns-%Dam(23) Level 14: Howling Twilight -- AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(A), AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(25), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(25) Level 16: Call Enforcer -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(A), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(27), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(29), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(31) Level 18: Empty Clips -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(31), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(33), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(33), Rgn-Knock%(33) Level 20: Gang War -- SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(A), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(34), OvrFrc-End/Rech(34), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(46), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(46), ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(46) Level 22: Tactics -- GssSynFr--ToHit(A), GssSynFr--Build%(34), RctRtc-Pcptn(36) Level 24: Fearsome Stare -- DflEgo-RecDeb%(A), UnsTrr-Stun%(36) Level 26: Project Will -- EntChs-Heal%(A), Dcm-Build%(36), Apc-Dam%(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37) Level 28: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37) Level 30: Unleash Potential -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(39) Level 32: Call Bruiser -- SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(39), SlbAll-Dmg(39), SlbAll-Dmg/Rchg(40), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), SlbAll-Build%(40) Level 35: Upgrade Equipment -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 38: Petrifying Gaze -- BslGaz-Slow%(A), BslGaz-Acc/Hold(42) Level 41: Dark Servant -- SprEnt-Acc/Hold(A), SprEnt-Hold/Rchg(42), SprEnt-End/Rchg(42), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End(43), SprEnt-Acc/Hold/End/Rchg(43), SprEnt-Rchg/AbsorbProc(43) Level 44: Dark Embrace -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Ags-Psi/Status(45), GldArm-3defTpProc(45), ImpArm-ResPsi(45) Level 47: Soul Tentacles -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(48), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(50), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(50) Level 49: Mighty Leap -- WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng(A), WntGif-RunSpd/Jump/Fly/Rng/EndRdx(50) Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Jump-I(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A) Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Heal(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(7), Heal-I(11) Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(9), EndMod-I(9) Level 1: Punk Level 1: Arsonist Level 16: Enforcer Level 32: Bruiser ------------ ------------ Set Bonus Totals: 19% DamageBuff(Smashing) 19% DamageBuff(Lethal) 19% DamageBuff(Fire) 19% DamageBuff(Cold) 19% DamageBuff(Energy) 19% DamageBuff(Negative) 19% DamageBuff(Toxic) 19% DamageBuff(Psionic) 6% Defense(Melee) 10% Defense 6% Defense(Smashing) 6% Defense(Lethal) 18.5% Defense(Fire) 18.5% Defense(Cold) 15.38% Defense(Energy) 15.38% Defense(Negative) 6% Defense(Psionic) 13.5% Defense(Ranged) 31% Defense(AoE) 4.5% Max End 75% Enhancement(RechargeTime) 15% Enhancement(Accuracy) 22.5% SpeedFlying 24.1 HP (3%) HitPoints 22.5% JumpHeight 22.5% SpeedJumping MezResist(Confused) 71.25% MezResist(Held) 71.25% MezResist(Immobilized) 71.25% MezResist(Sleep) 71.25% MezResist(Stunned) 71.25% MezResist(Terrorized) 71.25% MezResist(Teleport) 100% (20% chance) 20% PerceptionRadius 16% (0.27 End/sec) Recovery 210% (7.03 HP/sec) Regeneration 30% ResEffect(SpeedFlying) 30% ResEffect(RechargeTime) 30% ResEffect(SpeedRunning) 35% Resistance(Smashing) 35% Resistance(Lethal) 62.75% Resistance(Fire) 62.75% Resistance(Cold) 41.75% Resistance(Energy) 41.75% Resistance(Negative) 43.25% Resistance(Toxic) 54.25% Resistance(Psionic) 22.5% SpeedRunning | Copy & Paste this data into Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer to view the build | |-------------------------------------------------------------------| |MxDz;1540;747;1494;HEX;| |78DA6593C94F136114C0BF99B640CBD605283BA514680B8E94456FA28222A445129| |6BAC4341318E8C4B6D3745AA3470FFE017AF1A2372F1ED4C4B8DEA8EC9EB978301A| |770F8A073D8FAFF31E6D9399B4F9CDBC7DF9BEC8F5C99AC75337C719679F4888AA1| 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LOL I presume you're responding to my question - but it seems at odds with Seigmoraig's more elaborate answer. Ok thanks that makes much more sense. I was obviously misinformed about stealth powers - caused me to respec my Demons/Cold as a result but hey ho. So, to be clear, I could take a stealth power such as Steamy Mist, and pop a Stealth Proc in Sprint, becoming quite invisible and still not lose Supremacy over my minions?

I'm sorry but I'm finding this reply ambiguous.

both interesting choices but... Ninja/Time/Mace has two things not going for it I guess. I did read Redlynne's long post, tho I'll be honest and say a lot of it went over my head. One /Dark question - does Shadow Fall interfere with Supremacy? It seems like it should. If it doesn't, what's different about it?

My Demons/Cold is about as complete as I think I can get her, and I'm working on a Beast/Thermal for shits & giggles, though I'm not yet fully decided how that feels and it may fall by the wayside. I'm less experienced with MMs than many ATs - but I've had a Beast/Rad and a Thugs/Poison - both of which I found lacking. Beasts because the rad provided no shielding so they fall down go boom pretty quick, and thugs was waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaay back on live, pre-incarnates and really only good at ST stuff. (As a comparison my Dark/Poison controller was way superior in about every aspect and even did very well in PVP. ) So I am thinking what should I go for next. I'm kind of toying with the idea of a /Dark MM reading the boards here. So that would lead me to... what exactly? I'm not so keen on Zombies... or Ninjas... in my brief experimentations with them they seem stupid and chaotic and I'm not sure how Mercs would fit. I understand Bots are pretty tough but the concept of Bots/Dark kind of jars a bit - feels slightly clunky to me (not insuperably so...) I should also add that while I understand its power, I dislike how /Time plays and I'm not likely to look at that in the face of more interesting options, even if it's more potent. So I'm interested in knowing what you more expert readers would consider to be worthwhile - any and all MM options are on the table. What do you suggest, and why? What's good about your idea, what are its strenghts and weaknesses and if you have a build to back that up I'd be interested. Perhaps this might become a useful resource for budding MM novices in time. Cheers for now

So are you frankenslotting all your pets and that's a very interesting point about entomb. Is there anyone who can confirm/deny?

Interesting. What would your suggestion be then?

It works well, he spams hold and gives good control. Seems to be a nice compliment to the others. I don't have numbers, but anecdotally playing it seems good.

I've tried the same build in Mids Reborn with Mace Mastery instead of Ice. It is technically better, but I'm not sure if it's thematically as pleasing.