Zeraphia

A huge tip (I don't know if it's been mentioned yet, but you can buy a temp power Jet Pack from P2W (get the tanker to do this), have the Tanker use a large purple or two, have said Tanker fly up to one of the 4 poles. On that pole, there are essentially four little "spikes" tell the Tanker to situate himself between two of the spikes, close to the pole but not ON the pole. It will look sort of like this if you are standing above, the little cross is the pole's spikes, the dot would be the tanker. The Tanker needs to stay in this position between the two spikes. Doing this will cause LR to repeatedly jump on the pole to try to "catch" the player, but because you are in an awkward position, LR will repeatedly fall down the pole, and he will not be able to use his attacks. You essentially "hold" him hostage by doing this strategy until all of the viable towers are done. There's the big Tanking trick way to cheese LR. I took a trip to Grandeville to give a more detailed guide on how to do it! These are the poles I am talking about that the tanker will fly toward with LR (this tanker needs to grab LR's attention for a brief minute, one large purple is all that's really needed provided you have decent res (40+ to E/S/L) and 20%+ def, taunt him, make sure when you taunt him, you get him before and after someone on your team hits the first tower. After that, fly toward the pole in this EXACT position LR will never hit you again after that and your team can safely take down the towers with ease. Basically why I think this works is because enemies will try to hit you with the most damaging power they have that is in their range, when you fly up to this tower, you are just inside of his theoretical "melee" range, meaning the higher hitting attacks would hit you, but not far enough away for him to use his channelgun power. So he keeps trying to get you on this pole, and just keeps falling down, because he gets so close to using his hardest hitting melee attack, but unfortunately, because you're in the air, and he keeps falling down, he doesn't quite "get in range" to do it because he keeps trying to take the pole.

You again have totally factored out Quills' ability... It really adds a lot of value to the set, however, some people just may not look at it from that standpoint, I digress. Again, you are not bringing up the fact that fire is 1. an older set. 2. has great single target that is not locked out by momentum. BTW, I for one, totally agree with the notion that Fiery Melee should be 100% buffed (it is not gaining substantial damage for its "loss" of a secondary effect/cc relative to how "fire" works on various other sets), but that is another topic for another thread. There have been multiple sources I've heard (reliable) that TW will very likely be nerfed. I'm not going to name the names of which developers, but I'm afraid the nerf looks very likely at this point. I have many characters with TW that are 50'd, have full incarnates, and were made around its potential, it would be a shame to have all of that wasted and "dustbin" characters I've already worked hard and done really difficult tasks with. And that brings me to asking for changes to make those characters not just "dustbins," giving TW animations, and different feels would go a lot better for me. What I am asking for is not to make it more powerful, what I am asking for is when/if the nerf happens, that it gets to have some gems too. I think a lot of people would appreciate more costumization and a smoother feel for the set to not have it feel so drastic in and out of momentum. Given that TW/Bio is the most popular combination in Scrappers, so much so it beats Elec/Shield, a LOT of people would be heavily impacted by this. Yes, this is based upon hypotheticals, but this is what forums are made for, changes and hypotheticals. Nerfs to TW are not new, or ubsubstantiated claims. Further, "curb your expectations" is rather rash, making a suggestion in the suggestion forum to change things that many view as negatives about the set before the nerf happens so that people possibly get these QoL changes to off-set some of the backlash/dustbining of their characters would really help ease the nerfing of it. I did not say that I "expect" them to do these things, these are suggestions. You know what's a perfect example of not giving gems after a very hefty nerfbat to a set that was very powerful that to this day is hanging on by a thread? Mind Control. I'm aware that HC is very different, but at the same time, it is an example of what can happen when you take an ironcore nerfbat to a set and just hammer it into the ground without ANY QoL improvements/changes.

I'm trying really hard to grasp what it is you WANT out of this, quite frankly though, I've said what I want for TW, you seem to exclusively want a damage nerf on it, and nothing BUT a damage nerf. You've advocating for all nerfs, and zero "givebacks" when it is, which will not sit well for people. I am trying to advocate for smoothing the level experience and making it not feel horrible for exemping... I felt you made Spines to be worse than it actually is at low levels, and how Spines is actually one of the better ones for exemping down and leveling early due to its high AoE + excellent herding capabilities. You haven't again, stated what you want to see... all I've seen you post so far has been advocacy toward nerfing things that people really enjoying playing/use... That's not meant to be a personal attack, that's just what I've observed so far. I am aiming to try to mitigate some of the huge criticisms of this set, trying to address the issues that it has at low levels compared to other sets, and I am trying to advocate more for the different animations, smoother low level experience and more weapon options than anything else before it gets a huge nerf bat it may never recover from.

Yes, you point to its AoE, and it is a fair criticism, however, you are not pointing this out accurately, you are giving it a more rose-colored glasses look than it actually is at lower levels. You really get overall, less AoE out of this set than you'd be made to believe. You point to Defensive Sweep, yes it is nice, however, it also does pretty "piss poor" damage on a very slow off-momentum swing. You're making this seem better than how it really is. The only other AoE you get until at least 26+ (more than half the game) is Titan Sweep. Even at 26, when if you're Scrapper/Brute, you access Whirling Smash which is locked behind momentum as an AoE and cannot be used to open battles with unless you have a momentum carry-over from a previous fight or you used Build Momentum. This is also if you're Scrapper/Brute, if you are a Tanker, you won't get access to Whirling until 35. The AoE until very late in the set's life is not great. Conversely, with Spines, you neglect so many details... Spine Burst is not locked behind anything, you can use this power at level 2 (or 4 if Tanker) as a battle opener, you do not have to be locked behind a game mechanic to use it. It also gains Quills at 18 for Scrapper/Brute which is far from "one aoe." Tankers actually gain Ripper at level 16. These sets have better AoE than TW does for half of the game, now you can argue it doesn't trade ST, sure, I'd agree there. However, what it DOES trade, is being extremely slow to enter battles, a lot of its utility powers not being able to be used at low levels, and massive endurance costs. At level 26/32 on Scrapper/Brute, you're "cooking with gas" in terms of AoE, it feels glorious. It has better AoE than TW, period. Why do you think people use it for farming over TW? You're leaving out significant details here. The result of this ends up being that TW is not nearly as polished at lower levels as you're making it seem and it does not have the "heavy aoe" you're claiming it does until very late in the set's life. You left out very important details with Spines and made an unjust comparison.

Not necessarily... From what I've observed so far is that it is not usually as simple as you described. By the first few swings, the mob is just dead, at high levels, literally one swing, and it is demolished except for decently resisted Lei's or if you turned bosses on by yourself. The set can feel really slow on teams, by the time your animations finally end in off-momentum battle openings, someone possibly has already killed your enemy, leading you to travel to the next pack in less than 6 seconds to try to still keep the momentum bonus, which you won't. That's where I have an issue, the animations are so long outside of the momentum mechanic that people are disintegrating the enemy before you can even get the hits on, this set off-momentum is slower than Energy Melee sans Total Focus (even then, they're not far off.) It also has its PBAoE completely shut off from use until you gain momentum (I'd gladly accept a longer animation than have it totally shut off without momentum.) This isn't me saying "TW is bad!" this is me saying, it is slow, clunky, awkward and could use revision/new animations to fine-tune it.

I've said this before on the test realm beta, it should be changed to a toggle to upkeep with the meta, currently, due to a forum compromise, we ended up with the effects of Faraday lingering 5 seconds after leaving the cage. The fact is, in every single type of power like this, it has much greater application/mobility than Faraday unfortunately. I have contended the idea it should have been a toggle to keep up on teams and just to not be so annoying to constantly spam it for its key buffs, something no other set really has to do. There are of course benefits to it, but honestly, I've always been in the camp like the OP that despite its pros, its cons outweigh the pros in practicality. I firmly believe that Faraday should lose in some regard its mez protection/res/whatever to gain this. There is also utility in that you can position yourself better in many situations than feel inclined to cast Faraday over and over again, these are concerns I don't think you're taking into account. The set is extremely busy as is, having yet another click power really hurts the set. I'm actually going to disagree with the OP's notion that Endurance Draining is "underpowered." Actually, I find it to be in some cases, OP... I actually managed to sap Marauder (the iTrial version) in LAMBDA of his endurance completely, and I actually stopped him from being able to use his T9. My Defender is Elec/Sonic and there were no other Elec's on the trial. That is one of many instances, I have regularly made AV's into nothing but punch dummies. I get the principle you're saying with the MM being good, but that's 1 out of 4 other support Archetypes, and definitely not the one with it in its primary. Why this primary works so well on MM but none of the other ATs is a bit of an issue in my eyes. The set should be strongest on Defenders, because that is the primary virtue, and as it stands, it is not. IMO, OP's suggestion to gut the pet and make it like a PBAOE with a self-activations is a much better idea than the way it current works, so it gains a much-needed aoe debuff instead of the pet. The set should not be judged by how it performs on an AT that has a purpose so distinctly different than Defenders. What we get into here is user-friendliness vs. effectiveness. Many times, they overlap. I can see arguments to both sides, but overall, I think that if people are gaining an easier application even if its effects are turned down, it usually tends to be more *really* effective than the former. Comparing Amp Up as a T9 to other T9's, it is underwhelming. Not every T9 is created equal, clearly, but at the same time, this T9 is really lackluster. If this gave the +Special to one specific target, but the damage procs chain to the whole team, that would REALLY make this set stand-out and be interesting without being "overpowered!" The AT's that get the most bang-for-their-buck out of Amp Up are going to usually not be the ones utilizing the damage procs, thus the effect is sort of "wasted." Comparing Elec Affinity to other sets... I don't feel like you're evaluating the other sets fairly at all... "I think it outpaces sets like Force Field, Sonic Resonance, Pain Domination, Empathy," Force Field is comparing apples to oranges IMO, they just work in totally different ways. FF is a weaker set, I will grant you that, but what it does is make you and your teammates near-totally unhittable. It is extremely basic, but super low maintenance for very substantial effect to a team's survivability. Sonic is better than EA IMO, because Sonic's specialty is turning hard targets into melting dummies, the substantial amount of -res this set can pack on a hard target is like no other, definitely not as low in evaluation as others, it also gives more res overall than RA which, in the current state of the game prevention > mitigation. Honestly, -res is so valuable now in terms of teams that it's very hard to justify this set, and then you have Kinetics which just delivers so much more bang-for-buck recovery and damage that it feels totally out-classed. Empathy and Pain Domination, sure, because they're trying to mitigate damage as it happens versus prevent it, also do not give -res, and are not the best at even the buffs they offer. However... -Cold is LEAGUES ahead of EA. Giving Defense, huge amounts of -res with double Rain, much heftier -regen, Recovery... The set alone can produce -84% res, that's something that EA dreams it could do... I'm sorry but it's just not "on par" with it. -Rad gives very heavy debuffs as well that would make lots of things in this game much more difficult than without it, sure, Rad doesn't buff in the same way, it just ruins the enemies themselves so horrifically that the buffs aren't even needed. -Thermal gives res, -res and defense debuff to give even more -res. This is again, something that EA does not provide and is one of the critical elements toward making a support set very good. Thermal also provides stronger self-heals and is not nearly as click-y. Does not buff to the same degree, but is MUCH more user-friendly. At the end-game the "holy trinity" of support sets most valued are Cold, Nature, Kinetics, and Rad. Other sets are amazing, don't get me wrong, but those are currently in leagues of their own.

I'm going to say this just looking at the particular change to Regeneration Aura... there are going to be a LOT of people who will not like that you're playing around with the huge regeneration part that makes Empathy very unique and would turn it more into looking like a weaker version of Nature. Also, many will not like the new Adrenaline either... I do not care for click AoE buffs because herding people is already tedious as is... This is also changing a classic game set that I think would stir up a hornet's nest... I agree in the current state, it isn't the strongest, but I think the ship has sort of sailed with this set to break cottage rules on powers.

??? The AT's inherent is literally the DEFINING trait of an Archetype versus another beyond just the scalars of what the sets it has will get. Domination = Dominators. Many people pick Mind Control on Dominators but will not on Controllers. All Dominators have access to Domination, whether you choose to build to achieve it permanently or not is up to your discretion, but most who choose this AT do.

I've said and address numerous times in the original post, that it will likely obviously get a damage nerf, IMO, even with all the tools it has, it is a huge turnoff for so many players because of the things I've mentioned. It is not user-friendly to a new player if you are literally gasping for endurance with a weapon super slow on its base animation without momentum, that can possibly whiff if there are not enough enemies. It feels terrible at low levels even as an experienced player using it. If at low levels, these are not "easily graspable" then I would not describe it as "user friendly" toward players. As such, I've seen several people swear off from never using it. I've also talked with many other veterans, and we have unanimously agreed Titan Weapons has a learning curve. Sure, Build Momentum bypasses that to some extent, I will grant that. But that isn't going to always be readily available at every level and every battle. Well, this is again, about Titan Weapons itself, not about the entirety of every single melee set and its applicability in lower levels. I agree with that principle, but I think this isn't exactly on-topic, this is made to throw boons to the set to make it tolerable should its damage get nerfed and now have people just delete their characters due to the frustration and animations that TW has/is.

Except if you're by yourself trying to kill one enemy and you whiff due to RNG, costing so much animation time in the process. At lower levels, this set is very unfriendly to players. Look, you can argue this point at high levels with ageless and such and at full enemy settings, but at lower levels, with not as much to hit momentum with, the animations are really punishing. Yes, you hit hard, but you spend enormous endurance for that making TW horrible at exemping/lower content.

So, this is not meant to be a "buff" in the way the title would probably be interpreted as, this is moreso a "buff" to make the set more user-friendly. What do I mean by this? It's no secret Titan Weapons is an outlier in terms of damage, that's very clear, I don't think I need to point to evidence that it is an over-performer in terms of damage. That said, what I mean by this is that I think Titan Weapons if it was changed to deliver less damage, should be more user-friendly. This set deals with a very annoying momentum mechanic that could be drastically reworked/reduced, as to what end, I don't know. I'd be very willing to trade in the DPS for user-friendliness at this point with this set. Also, it comes with the highest end/sec pricetag of any other set, it dramatically overspends for its endurance consumptions, something that I think should be reworked and factored in. Further, I think that there should be different animations to this set. A lot of people do not like the "stabbing" motion in Rend Armor nor do they find with the set that it makes sense. I think that alternate animations for this set would be a great boon if it were nerfed in terms of damage as I predict it possibly might be. The bottom line with this is, I do agree that its damage is very high and too much honestly of an outlier to ignore. That said, if it does get nerfed, I want it to be a playable set regardless if it ends up still not being "top tier." If you're going to nerf and hit TW, throw it some good bones too. A nerf doesn't always have to be a total negative if you throw positives such as these suggestions at it too. Implementing these changes may make TW as a set just universally more appealing to a much wider audience of people than as it currently stands. Before it is commented, yes I am aware of how to work momentum, I'm very familiar with Titan Weapons, I have well over 100+ vet levels with it, I personally have prepared for the nerf, but if that nerf comes, I want the set to gain some positives as well, not just a total net negative.

In all sincerity... Why are we focusing on things like Hasten, Domination, and purples on the AH?! What is going on? Seriously? There are far more important, less dramatic sweeping changes that could benefit under-developed ATs like PB's, Banes, Night Widows, and Sentinels. There are also much more interesting ideas like pet customization, colored arrows, pulling off the redraws of certain sets, etc. that are a net positive for the game and community rather than something that would be horrifically controversial and not necessarily "needed" when the game functions with it as-is.

Why don't we just nerf the floor? It's OP that we can just walk in the game!

Oh now I'm really loving this idea!!!

As someone more "girl-y" NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! On a serious note though, cool idea!

I truly respect and value your opinion, and I can attest to the fact that Sentinels can be decent, but Nihiilii, you've got to look at how far the gap is between Sentinels vs. Scrapper & Blaster. With epic pools, a lot of Sentinels can become viable, but in no other AT does it so strictly rely on legitimately half of its DPS or more on an epic pool... That's not good. Nihilii, the Blast sets by themselves are not competitive in damage, they're just not I'm sorry. Psionic pool is practically a requirement to gain competitive DPS, that's really bad design if 2/4 of your main rotation attacks are doing significantly more damage than what your primary powers are able to produce on a damaging archetype (remember, Sentinel is a BLAST-FIRST, SURVIVAL-SECOND.) You can min-max the Sentinel to the highest degrees with procs, but honestly you could do the same for most Defenders (a SUPPORT-FIRST, BLAST-SECOND) within the same realm (most of the types of people who post there are possibly not utilizing procs to min-max their damage to the degree we are with Sentinels), and a lot will come out ahead. I don't have the time unfortunately to produce them, but the Sniper power + offensive tools are all there to push them further ahead unfortunately with just their two primary sets. Now, if we factor in Epic pools, Sentinels come out ahead, but that's the issue, why is an epic pool such a stringent requirement to actually deal DPS that's competitive to be beyond a Defender? I'm going to be 100% real, it's concerning IMO, that Sentinels and Defenders are even mentioned in the same sentence for damage comparisons, and they're valid... That is not good. They should IMO, be mentioned with Scrappers, but as it stands, they're just not even playing the same sport. All this said, could we absolutely abuse procs and incarnates to an exceptional degree with exploiting helpful secondaries to push Sentinels into a 300 DPS-range, even at the cost of foregoing defenses? Yes, you could... But the same could be said for a Defender if they really went for it all-out. The thing about Defenders is that Defenders will in most cases not just improve their own damage, but they will magnify everyone else on the team's damage making the leaps and bounds more powerful than the Sentinel, and if they can get similar DPS on their bases, that's pretty telling that Sentinels are not competitive as a whole as an AT by their bases. That's unfortunate IMO, now, I quite enjoy my Sentinel with her Psi pool, but if she didn't have that Psi pool, I'm afraid I'd have to dustbin her for IO's because by her primary and secondary she is just totally eclipsed by Scrapper to such a magnitude at this state of the game that it is just unbelievable. You've done some absolutely astonishing things with your Sentinel Nihilii, you should be proud of them! You even inspired me with what you've done! But the Sentinel itself has flaws, that's OK! It doesn't take away from how great of a player you are and your impressive accomplishments!

This assumes that Blasters > Scrappers at DPS... Which, they're really not... This is a huge misconception. A Scrapper pretty regularly will out-DPS a Blaster in a lot of cases... In fact, there are a number of Scrapper combinations now that will legitimately out-DPS even the most damaging Blaster. Stalkers are actually behind Scrappers in terms of DPS in a lot of cases too and well most of the time have traded up AoE/defenses in some category to gain this. Single target: I've made Fire/Bio the most damaging Sentinel (technically Elec Blast can inconsistently get higher... that's still not going to change the outcome)... How does it compare to the most damaging Scrapper? Half its actual DPS, not even joking. Even though TW/Bio is broken and so high of an outlier, a lot of regular combos will out-damage it by the hundreds. How does it compare to the highest damaging Blaster (Fire/Fire)? It comes close (still about 130 DPS off) with a ton of procs and tweaking, but if it didn't have its mandatory Psionic epic pool, I'm afraid the Blaster would have about legitimately 200-300 damage over the Sentinel just due to the fact that Blaze and Blazing Blast by themselves very mediocre damage. The Blaster is only using attacks out of its primary and secondary pool, did not have to use the Epic pool to gain more DPS whatsoever. That's an issue that the only way to get them to competitive DPS levels is through procing out the living hell out of their epic pools. Now, I still like my Sentinel, but my Blaster and especially Scrapper are just in totally different leagues in terms of damage and DPS to the point where buffing the Sentinel absolutely does not encroach on either AT.

By basic blast powers it would seem that way, but that doesn't tell you the full story. The T1/T2 favor the Sentinel once DPA is factored, this is IMO because of the fact that they tie directly into opportunity, where you fail to state is the fact that the Sentinel does not have access to a Sniper power (OUCH!) and that significantly impacts their DPS and chunking ability. Blaze for Defender is much closer in damage to Sentinel than the Blaster version... that divide MAJORLY worsens once you factor in that you lost your SNIPER power. Further, Defenders in many cases get access to a damage buff of some sort through buffing/debuffing (Overgrowth, Fulcrum Shift, Freezing Rain) that push them beyond Sentinel's damage with just aim. The divide worsens when you consider the AoE target caps with hitting 10 enemies versus 16, a pretty big damage hit if it could've hit that many targets. The same can be said for any AT with a blast set really. +% range in ATO or set bonuses is definitely not unique to Sentinels, and because those ATs start at even higher bases with Sniper powers, it becomes even more impactful for them. The poster saying they do around Defender damage is not a stretch or hyperbolic in the way the game functions/works. Sentinels have a long way to go before they even slowly start to encroach on Blaster's DPS territory. Blasters have Aim and build up, a higher damaging nuke, higher target caps, and a SNIPER power. Blasters quite firmly have their place and always will. I would support the change on the inherent, but it would probably have to do *more* than just scourge for chance at below 50% health.

This sounds nice and dandy but... what about if you are traveling to a mission and lose Domination because you literally can't keep it active? There are a number of instances where you're also just waiting for a team/league to fill, and now you lost domination again... It sounds great in theory, but I'd still detest this in reality in a lot of realistic situations.

Forgive me, I am rather confused, it seemed early as if there was a post here and there about "oh well, it'll only be down for a little bit," "well for those who just go into an AFK base and expect it to not last well..." No. I like my Domination. I like it permanently. I don't WANT to rebuild it. AT ALL. I built to not have to deal with this and I built to permanently feel powerful. If there is another suggestion you're speaking of, I'm glad to hear it (because some of these posts are pretty vague or I may not have interpreted it correctly.) However, a lot of these posts seem to be aiming at the idea that perma-dom won't be a thing anymore which I have a major issue to ever agree to.

As someone who has perma-doms and built for them to actually PLAY their controls as a different type of gameplay style, I really do not like these suggestions, but I agree with the principle that it should be easier for lower levels to obtain a power-boost for a decent amount of time longer. You can absolutely get perma-dom pretty regularly without trying very hard. The builds aren't cheap, but the LotG argument is on deaf ears to me. Why? Defense is something you should get regardless... I take Maneuvers for its defense, I take CJ for its defense, I take hasten for its recharge to boost all of my other powers... This isn't limited to perma-dom by any means whatsoever and I don't really see the issue with this... That said, I have exemped to low level content plenty of times and it sucks. Pretty bad. I've got to say, I feel for the lower level doms, but I don't feel for them enough to completely forego all of the benefits that perma-dom offers me at higher levels. I think possibly lowering the recharge requirements/making domination build faster at lower levels would help them out a lot. All this said, I play my dominators to permanently lockdown and get a real "Mother Mayhem" feeling out of Mind Control. It's a roleplaying thing and it's one of my favorite sets thematically that has always interested me. I don't want that to go away just to feel better at lower content. Yea, I realize I'm exactly the type of person you made your posts against, and yes, I also realize my opinion may be in a minority, but this goes along with changing the identity of an AT I'm familiar with (that quite frankly isn't nearly as OP as others...) into something a. less powerful b. not built for, is something that I would take major issue with. Lots of people argued this for Sentinel, to not change it too drastically from its originally intended purpose, well I'm going to hold that same basic mantle for Dominators. I don't want them to change into something completely different than I'm used to in order to fit someone else's preferred playstyle.

- Skippable cut-scenes - Sentinel inherent rework - Trick Arrow buff - Energy Melee buff/rework - Mastermind pet customization - Color-able arrows - VEAT Night Widow & Bane rework (Fort and Crab are fine) these in specific just feel like under-appreciated Stalkers with team buffs. - HEAT Warshade & Peacebringer rework to give higher ST damage I don't think these are "game-breaking" to fix, but I do understand that despite this wish list, it may take more time than one might initially expect for them to come to fruition in a balanced and cohesive way.

Thugs/Storm... I already hypothesized this would be an absolute monster... But with Assault Radial and my friend hover-tanking the pylon away from me... 35 seconds... Yep... I think this comes out to a grand total of 1223 DPS I want to note a few things, that this DPS is not ALWAYS consistent, your pets can die, Radial can drop off, AoE knockback can severely hinder your times, etc. In real gameplay, a Tanker is practically a requirement for AV's because they will run away from you as fast as they can due to storm. Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7 https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer Click this DataLink to open the build! Level 50 Magic Mastermind Primary Power Set: Thugs Secondary Power Set: Storm Summoning Power Pool: Leadership Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Teleportation Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery Villain Profile: Level 1: Call Thugs -- HO:Nucle(A), SlbAll-Build%(7), SprMarofS-Dmg/EndRdx(7), SprMarofS-EndRdx/+Resist/+Regen(9), ExpStr-Dam%(21), EdcoftheM-PetDef(9) Level 1: Gale -- Empty(A) Level 2: O2 Boost -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Heal(43), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(43), NmnCnv-EndRdx/Rchg(43), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(46), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(48) Level 4: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(34), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(37), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(40), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(42) Level 6: Equip Thugs -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 8: Assault -- EndRdx-I(A), EndRdx-I(31) Level 10: Steamy Mist -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(11), Rct-Def/EndRdx(11), Rct-ResDam%(13), GldArm-3defTpProc(13), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(15) Level 12: Call Enforcer -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(15), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(17), ShlBrk-%Dam(17), TchofLadG-%Dam(19), SprMarofS-Acc/Dmg(19) Level 14: Victory Rush -- EndMod-I(A) Level 16: Freezing Rain -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(42) Level 18: Gang War -- SprCmmoft-Rchg/PetAoEDef(A), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(23), SvrRgh-PetResDam(23), SprCmmoft-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprCmmoft-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25) Level 20: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A), HO:Cyto(21) Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(33) Level 24: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(33), EndRdx-I(34) Level 26: Call Bruiser -- ExpStr-Dam%(A), SprMarofS-Acc/EndRdx(27), SprMarofS-Dmg(27), HO:Nucle(29), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(29), CaltoArm-+Def(Pets)(31) Level 28: Burnout -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31) Level 30: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A) Level 32: Upgrade Equipment -- EndRdx-I(A) Level 35: Tornado -- OvrFrc-Dam/KB(A), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(36), OvrFrc-End/Rech(36), OvrFrc-Dmg/End/Rech(36), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End(37), FrcFdb-Rechg%(37) Level 38: Lightning Storm -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(39), FrcFdb-Rechg%(39), ExpStr-Dam%(39), GldJvl-Dam/End/Rech(40), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(40) Level 41: Thunder Clap -- AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(A), AbsAmz-Stun(48), AbsAmz-Stun/Rchg(50), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(50), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(50) Level 44: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(45), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-EndRdx/Rchg(46), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(46) Level 47: Web Envelope -- GrvAnc-Acc/Immob/Rchg(A) Level 49: Recall Friend -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A) Level 1: Brawl -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(33), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(48) Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A) Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A) Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A) Level 1: Supremacy Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A) Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A) Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(3) Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A) Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(3), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(5), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(5) Level 1: Punk Level 1: Arsonist Level 12: Enforcer Level 26: Bruiser Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface Level 50: Banished Pantheon Core Superior Ally Level 50: Ageless Core Epiphany Level 50: Support Core Embodiment ------------

Beasts do not suck, they are a "trade off" MM primary... Their T1 pets are verrrrrrrrry good. IMO, this is where the set actually shines the most. Are they as high tier as Thugs? Obviously not but they are pretty good, it is an MM primary that actually can softcap itself regularly with Fortify Pack (you trade their crits for it, but IMO, can be well-worth it given how tanky they become).