Force Redux

Leveling a Bots/Cold right now. I like it. I like the improved utility and debuffs over my old standby FF. I know I'll miss Dispersion Bubble until Clarion, but I think it is worth the trade-off. I have stealth I also didn't have before. The slows are helpful as well, since runners are often a problem with no way to immobilize prior to Mace when using FF. On this one I think I'll go Chill mastery for an attack and the armor, and Hibernate as a replacement for PFF/panic button.

As usual everyone seems to forget about /cold. Some of the best debuffs in the game for taking out an AV. Great defense ice shields for your pets. Would take bots/cold over the usual boring bots/FF anyday. But even bots/cold was a bit too boring for my taste so I went bots/storm. :) I will second that Bots/Cold is also terrific. MM now has the minimum FX option. Lacks Dispersion Bubble, but that's mostly fixed at the Incarnate level. In trade you get stealth and great debuffs, some resists Still needs Medicine IMO. Oh, and Power Boost isn't necessary with Cold, so feel free to check out other Pools.

Don't have Pine's up... On my phone. Quickly: you don't need more than one KB Protection IO. Never put slots in flight. One End reducer is good enough. Swap to Aid Self from injection. You will still take some damage and you wont have to rely on greens. Overwhelming Force KD proc in Assault Bot. Help him keep things in his burn patch On the run. More later if I get time in front of PC. Have fun!

Pretty much this. I shelved my MMs to keep leveling my Dark/Ninjutsu sentinel. I should post a build for review. So far I slotted basic IOs, with a few exceptions: Celerity +Stealth (stalker-esque invis) OF's KD proc in Torrent. Both of these had a big impact in gameplay. I'll spend 100 merits shortly to get the Gladiators +global defense in a little bit. Ticks all my check boxes, and I have fun leaving the charge on with my KD cone on groups. I slotted for dinner Range in my cone, otherwise I am okay with the skirmish ranges.

Something like Darkest Night from the Soul PP definitely adds to survivability.

I'm all for this. I love FF, always have, but it needs to add something else... Absorpsion would be a great boon.

I support this statement. Xao, you just assembled my thoughts on the matter. Thanks.

How about a flat 10% damage increase? Equivalent to Assault. Not a huge bump, but measurable and a step towards a bit more parity as a tweak. Either that or rework the class passive to provide power-agnostic benefits to improve damage.

To OP, glad you are enjoying DP/Ninjutsu. ;)

That's a great breakdown Sunsette!

I can second TIme/DP, having taken one to 50 back in the day. It works very well together.

Hello. I think we may need to summon the build experts here. I'm not well-versed with either Poison or Water, but this is a slot-heavy pairing from what I'm seeing. If you don't mind frankenslotting and not getting as many set bonuses for ranged defense, this could be okay. Here's my shot at it. I hope it helps. I left the enhancments alone, as there are so many procs and ways to slot the number of very interesting powers that I'm really at a loss to put it in. Hero Plan by Mids' Hero Designer 1.962 http://www.cohplanner.com/ Click this DataLink to open the build! Bogwater: Level 50 Magic Defender Primary Power Set: Poison Secondary Power Set: Water Blast Power Pool: Flight Power Pool: Speed Power Pool: Sorcery Ancillary Pool: Dark Mastery Hero Profile: Level 1: Alkaloid (A) Empty (5) Empty (5) Empty (43) Empty Level 1: Aqua Bolt (A) Empty (7) Empty (7) Empty (9) Empty (9) Empty (11) Empty Level 2: Envenom (A) Empty (13) Empty (13) Empty (15) Empty Level 4: Hydro Blast (A) Empty (11) Empty (15) Empty (17) Empty (19) Empty (19) Empty Level 6: Hover (A) Empty Level 8: Weaken (A) Empty (17) Empty (21) Empty (21) Empty Level 10: Water Burst (A) Empty (23) Empty (23) Empty (25) Empty (25) Empty (31) Empty Level 12: Neurotoxic Breath (A) Empty (27) Empty (27) Empty (29) Empty Level 14: Whirlpool (A) Empty (34) Empty (34) Empty (36) Empty (36) Empty (36) Empty Level 16: Hasten (A) Empty (37) Empty Level 18: Paralytic Poison (A) Empty (29) Empty (31) Empty (33) Empty Level 20: Dehydrate (A) Empty (33) Empty (33) Empty (34) Empty Level 22: Mystic Flight (A) Empty Level 24: Elixir of Life (A) Empty Level 26: Poison Trap (A) Empty (37) Empty (37) Empty (39) Empty Level 28: Water Jet (A) Empty (31) Empty (46) Empty (46) Empty (48) Empty (50) Empty Level 30: Antidote (A) Empty Level 32: Venomous Gas (A) Empty (39) Empty (39) Empty (40) Empty Level 35: Steam Spray (A) Empty (40) Empty (40) Empty (42) Empty (42) Empty (45) Empty Level 38: Geyser (A) Empty (42) Empty (43) Empty (43) Empty (45) Empty Level 41: Tidal Forces (A) Empty Level 44: Dark Consumption (A) Empty (45) Empty (46) Empty (50) Empty Level 47: Dark Embrace (A) Empty (48) Empty (48) Empty (50) Empty Level 49: Soul Transfer (A) Empty Level 1: Brawl (A) Empty Level 1: Prestige Power Dash (A) Empty Level 1: Prestige Power Slide (A) Empty Level 1: Prestige Power Quick (A) Empty Level 1: Prestige Power Rush (A) Empty Level 1: Prestige Power Surge (A) Empty Level 1: Sprint (A) Empty Level 1: Vigilance Level 2: Rest (A) Empty Level 4: Ninja Run Level 2: Swift (A) Empty Level 2: Health (A) Numina's Convalesence - +Regeneration/+Recovery Level 2: Hurdle (A) Empty Level 2: Stamina (A) Endurance Modification IO (3) Performance Shifter - EndMod (3) Performance Shifter - Chance for +End Level 1: Combo Level 1 Level 1: Combo Level 2 Level 1: Combo Level 3 ------------

One thing I'd like clarity on is if it's worth it to go over that 45% value to ward against -Def debuffs? So if my Def is, say, +60%, I know I'm still capped. But if I get a -15% Def debuff, am I still capped? Super Reflexes already has a high amount of resistance to defense debuffs. So going over 45% isn't worth it, in my opinion, for that particular goal with SR. If you're concerned about specific groups with LTs or Bosses with higher than average hit chances, then using inspirations covers that gap if you are opposed to certain Incarnate solutions. Also, those kinds of enemies are priority targets to die first while their friends whiff whiff whiff. I would always try to build for slightly above 45% as a hedge against defense debuffs. SR has huge resistances to those, but it is important to realize that because SR's protection comes mainly from high defenses at or near the soft cap it is also much more vulnerable to defense debuffs. A -7.5% defense debuff might get resisted all the way down to -0.375%, but for an SR at the soft cap this actually increases incoming damage by a relative 7.5%. A 7.5% increase in incoming damage is not unnoticeable. But an SR running around with 47% defense can ignore the first -40% in raw defense debuffing, which encompasses most of what you're ever likely to be hit by. Where this was most noticeable was in things like the ITF where you're surrounded by defense debuffers, often right up to the aggro cap. The difference between 45% defense and 47% defense was definitely noticeable there: my MA/SR with slightly overcapped defenses would regularly outtank other SR that only built to 45%, or sometimes even slightly lower thinking there was no real difference. In *most* normal content the difference is not very noticeable and you can often cover with inspirations. But that's less practical in content with wall to wall debuffers. Nice to see you here Arcanaville :-)

Actually, I would suggest buying most of your level 25 IOs from the auction house, just don't pay the "buy it now" price. You can buy most for well under what it costs to buy the recipe and craft it, like 10-30k. You just need to take a few days to get them at good prices. Good to know. I do it all on my main for crafting badges

XaoGarrent, you're tilting at windmills on these forums.

Uh, maybe? Again, it's been forever, and I haven't played this on Homecoming yet, but my recollection is that the splash was small. You were unlikely to see a lot of mileage from it unless guys were jammed together, Night-At-The-Opera-level. This Mastermind is probably second guy on-deck as far as old characters I plan to recreate, just after my Sonic^2 Defender. yeah it's pretty small... Range 8? So basically melee range sound the target.

Team until you get your SOs/IOs and Assault Bot. Them it will be much better. Robots relies in Big Bot for the majority of it's damage.

Siren Song is great for adds, or mezzing a group of annoying critters so you can pick them off one by one.

I understand the Moo mastery comes with some udderly loud sound effects... <_< (I don't know)

If you find that kind of thing fun, well... I don't, but I wont kinkshame your masochism, don't worry. In lampshading my own tolerance for slower-but-safer I wasn't inviting you to demonstrate snark. I'm putting my opinions into a frame of reference. No need to be condescending.

Yes it's stealth :)

Sonic Time would be a beast. You'd offer something of everything. I've never been a fan of playing Kin, though I appreciate the buffs. Try both till 20, see which you like. Time is personally safer for you as a defender.

Now that I think about it, I thin that build was Demon/Thermal :-0

It was something Dixa has posted. Capped to S/L. I'll try to link to it.

Sounds awesome :) One thing I understand since last I looked at Poison was that the set got some splash AoE.