Code of Conduct Update - September 25th 2019

[boggo2300]

3 hours ago, Sylar said:

the worst thing you can do if you are trying to be legitimate is not be transparent with your community, and thats all i will say on the matter.

No the worst thing you can do if you are trying to be legitimate is break confidentiality of the negotiations you are having with the people who can grant you legitimacy to appease random people on the internet

Edited September 25, 2019 by boggo2300

[Lavos2019]

i would argue that actually makes it harder because the n you have 2 million people all trying to ask questions all at once abotu "why this?" and "why that?"

if they gave us a kind of general list of rules like say, "X% of a costume cannot match to be considered safe" ok thats kind of clear and not something easy to argue over, its when rules are in the dark like that that arguments and debate DO happen more

either way, guess we will find out eventually

Edited September 25, 2019 by Lavos2019

[ShardWarrior]

4 minutes ago, Lavos2019 said:

you have 2 million people all trying to ask questions all at once abotu "why this?" and "why that?"

"Because we said so" is the answer and there is no questioning or debating.   😀

[Lavos2019]

if you think that would stop people, thats adorable lol

i mean i may not do stuff like that, but im also just me, not tons of other people 😛

Edited September 25, 2019 by Lavos2019

[ShardWarrior]

3 minutes ago, Lavos2019 said:

if you think that would stop people, thats adorable lol

i mean i may not do stuff like that, but im also just me, not tons of other people 😛

I don't think it will stop anyone, just saying the HC folk have final say just as the devs had back on live.  There were no precise written rules before that I can remember.  People can question it all they like.  Having final say ends the discussion.

[Ironblade]

43 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

I realise he predates marvel.  I realise that they don't own mythology.  I just don't see the HC team making an exception for Thor considering his A list marvel status.

It's not an 'exception'.  It's simply acting in a manner consistent with the law.

[Lavos2019]

fair point Shard

i just hope at least 2 of my possibly 4 characters can be spared the wrath, the one of them is exactly as he was on live and never had an issue, but of course outside a slight name thats not even fully usable in that kind of sense, the costume didnt match either, it was just meant to look similar cus CoH didnt have the parts to properly replicate the costume, other than the helmet really, only diff is he's a Dark/Dark dom now because we didnt have that set when i made hime years ago on live lol

Edited September 25, 2019 by Lavos2019

[Ironblade]

2 hours ago, Sylar said:

if people can't express their thoughts over changes then what's the point in making announcements with the ability to reply? so we should just accept everything and not give criticism or suggestions right? sounds like Totalitarianism.

Actually, it sounds like they set up and maintain and pay for the server, so they make the rules.

Using the word "totalitarianism" is way over the top.

[Lavos2019]

i agree, calling totalitarian is a bit too far, though i do see the broader point he was trying to make, if you  dont wanrt discussion then simply make the forum post unable to allow it, its not as if the GMs dont have complete control over that

[Ironblade]

1 minute ago, Lavos2019 said:

i agree, calling totalitarian is a bit too far, though i do see the broader point he was trying to make, if you  dont wanrt discussion then simply make the forum post unable to allow it, its not as if the GMs dont have complete control over that

True, but I haven't seen any GMs telling people to stop whining and just deal with it.

It's some of the players taking that position.

[Lavos2019]

true, and i feel thats a bit of a stretch for anyone right now, i mean i have questions about it myself but im not exactly freaking out over it either

[Haijinx]

6 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

It's not an 'exception'.  It's simply acting in a manner consistent with the law.

So your contention is that they will disallow Capt America,  Iron Man, Hulk, etc.  But allow someone actually named Thor, carrying a hammer as long as said Thor harkens back to the myth? 

 

I guess we will see.  I don't think they will.  

[ShardWarrior]

10 minutes ago, Ironblade said:

and pay for the server

Player donations are covering this

[boggo2300]

1 hour ago, ed fray said:

DRAT, ran out of pop-corn again. 🙁

Buy bigger buckets :nod:

[Lavos2019]

ran outta popcorn? now that's a paddlin!

[ShardWarrior]

34 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

So your contention is that they will disallow Capt America,  Iron Man, Hulk, etc.  But allow someone actually named Thor, carrying a hammer as long as said Thor harkens back to the myth? 

 

I guess we will see.  I don't think they will.  

Thor is a bit of a tricky one.  Marvel did not actually create the name Thor or Mjolnir as they are from Norse myth.  As I understand it, Marvel can copyright the image/likeness of Thor they designed and use in their comics, movies, toys etc..  So if you were to make a hammer wielding brute named Thor in CoH but it did not look anything like the Marvel version of Thor, it's fair game. 

 

Walt Simonson - famous for working on Thor for Marvel - did a Thor series for (IIRC) IDW a while ago.  I want to say the title of it was Ragnarok, but not 100% sure.  I believe even DC has a version of Thor.  They just can't match the likeness of the Marvel one.

 

I would agree that no matter what, any character bearing the name Thor is going to get genericized.  I imagine any character getting reported for potential violations is just going to get the name/costume reset no matter what. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by ShardWarrior

[Couthless]

2 hours ago, subbacultchas said:

I would make Tyr in a hearbeat, were there a costume missing a hand. He was always my favorite of the Norse gods.

You could give him a hook or a bionic hand. A bionic hand would actually be pretty cool - you could make a futuristic Tyr.

[boggo2300]

2 minutes ago, Couthless said:

You could give him a hook or a bionic hand. A bionic hand would actually be pretty cool - you could make a futuristic Tyr.

Call him Tiwaz and Thor Donner and you are all good, best thing about Norse gods, they all have more names than you can poke a stick at (I had Odin on live and had a bind file of him introducing himself using a different name every time I had 40 of them, not even using Odin or Wotan or Wodin)

[Heraclea]

56 minutes ago, ShardWarrior said:

I would agree that no matter what, any character bearing the name Thor is going to get genericized.  I imagine any character getting reported for potential violations is just going to get the name/costume reset no matter what. 

IIRC, in the Paragon Studios days, the name 'Hercules' was not allowed in AE missions, which wrecked my Latin language AE adventure and is seriously out of bounds.  Marvel cannot own the name or concept of Thor, son of Odin, wielder of Mjöllnir, any more than they can own the character of Hercules.  Disney also has a Hercules, of course, because anybody can have a Hercules. 

 

I cheerfully admit that Heraclea's main costume is inspired by Wonder Woman.  My Wonder Woman fandom pretty much died with the New 52, unfortunately. 

[Mac]

So I don’t have any characters that are blatant trademarked/copyrighted ripoffs as far as I am aware. 

 

I do have an inv/ss tank, that, has various costumes.  All original.  However, one of my costumes is predominantly blue, with a red cape boots, gloves and a letter that represents his name (M) which is a feature on all his costumes.  It is not intended to be a parody or copy of a flagship DC character, but if you squint and turn your head sideways you would be forgiven for thinking it was the man of steel himself.  The crux is, I like the costume pieces in the colours and pattern I’ve chosen, and it fits with my head canon of the character trying to brighten up his image where his original and primary look is the same costume pieces but in Black and White.

 

How does this affect me and mine with regards to my original creation that could, by some, be taken as a copy. 

 

Edited September 25, 2019 by Mac

[Torcel]

5 hours ago, Abraxus said:

Perhaps as an act of good faith to prove they are serious.  Who knows.  We won't know the details of these talks until it's a done deal, so no use in speculating.  But, this is exactly the kind of thing I would expect NCSoft to insist upon before granting their seal of approval.

I take it as a hopeful sign, frankly.  If talks weren't going well and drawing towards a positive conclusion, copuright issues on an illegal server would be a non-issue.

 

It makes me wonder if a deal hasn't already been inked with a future effective date maybe a month in advance, actually.  By putting this policy in place now, HC has some lead time to clear out the copyright violations before they're legit and have to deal with a potential bevy of lawsuits.  That would be a sensible precaution to take.

[Chazcon]

6 hours ago, Obsidius said:

You know, if you don't like what's going on with Homecoming, there are other servers.

I like the way they are running Homecoming and the direction it's going.

[Torcel]

3 hours ago, Lavos2019 said:

if they gave us a kind of general list of rules like say, "X% of a costume cannot match to be considered safe" ok thats kind of clear and not something easy to argue over, its when rules are in the dark like that that arguments and debate DO happen more

Oh, how I would love for that to be the case.  But I have two words for you: rules lawyers.  I've been a community moderator responsible for decisions like this before, and you get a lot less argument when people can't dicker about whether it's 9% or 10% different.

 

When you have the final say, people will generally be ok with what you say as long as it's reasonable, consistent with previous rulings, and not arbitrary or capricious, even if they'd have preferred a different outcome.  But give people a standard ostensibly independent of your judgment, and your inbox will quickly fill with appeals and complaints as soon and as often as you try to apply that standard..

[Blackbird71]

I have zero doubt that this change is heavily related to the negotiations with NCSoft.

 

To borrow from Lando Calrissian:

 

"This deal is getting worse all the time."

 

Most of my characters that I play regularly are originals, but it's occasionally fun to do homages and the like, sometimes for costume contests or other events.  However, I have seen a lot of other characters in the game that have been recreations of other works, many of them very creatively done and impressive to see.  I was once in a CC that filled nearly the entire plaza at Kallisti Wharf, not just the area under the statue, but up and down both sides of the fountains with the glass roof, and it was entirely themed on homage characters.  To this date, it's the single largest contest I have seen in this game (HC or live), and it was fantastic.  It's sad to see that such events will no longer be able to take place.

 

What really gets me about this whole thing is that there are always characters using these sorts of names in other games, but for some reason it's not an issue there; it's only a problem with CoX.  My only hope in all of this is that the HC team is fair enough about this to recognize the difference between a direct replica and a parody, as much fun can still be had with parody characters, and parody is specifically protected under U.S. law.

 

[EmmySky]

Many people speculate this new policy has to do with the negotiations....and that is certainly a possibility.

 

To play devils advocate for a moment, it could also be that with the recent publicity, one of the many previously mentioned big guns has actually issued a c&d.

 

I have never been a comic book fan and I am woefully uneducated on the myriad characters and names involved in each of the camps.  Back on live, in the midst of the lawsuit, I had a nifty little hero and one day I logged her in to find I needed a new name.  I had no idea I had infringed anything.  Ignorance is no excuse of the law so she got a new name and carried on saving the world.

 

I hope anyone with infringements, intentional or not, can see their way to comply with name or costume changes and still enjoy their character.  I agree with the policy but I also see that it may dishearten a lot of 'homage' players and I just want people to keep enjoying the game even if they have to adjust a couple things.