Code of Conduct Update - September 25th 2019

[Matt_Miracle]

Since this is now in place for the server, I will default to how I handled it on Live.

• Does the character have the same outfit?
• Does the character have the same name?
• Does the character have the same powers?
• Does the character have the same Bio?

If I can answer YES to 3 or 4  of those questions, I would report.  If is just any 2 of the 4, then nope.

 

Maybe someone wanted to create a Claws / Regen scrapper that was named "the" Wolverine BUT was dressed as the Michigan Wolverines and had a completely unique bio. The only people I could think of that would have an issue with this would be OSU fans for the character using the word "the" in regards to OSU's biggest rival.

[Felis Noctu]

6 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

If you have a character name that's used by marvel, dc, abc, an anime, a movie, etc.  and none of them are particularly popular, how do you even know? 

 

That's what i mean.  

That's exactly what I mean too. You would hope that covering the big names in a filter would be enough, but there are hundreds of potential mines in this field that we could end up tripping over, even one-shots, any of which could potentially be used to give HC a hard time. We just have to hope it doesn't come to that and covering the big names is enough.

Edited September 25, 2019 by Felis Noctu

[subbacultchas]

2 minutes ago, Haijinx said:

If you have a character name that's used by marvel, dc, abc, an anime, a movie, etc.  and none of them are particularly popular, how do you even know? 

 

That's what i mean.   

 

 

Or literary characters. Wrestlers. Anything that's effectively trademarked or copyrighted, and that's very long list of things. 

[MetaVileTerror]

and remember, just having this policy in place might be enough to placate Marvel.  As long as Homecoming can reasonably say that they're doing their best, and that they are dealing with the infringements within a reasonable timeframe, the courts would likely side with Homecoming.  

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, subbacultchas said:

Or literary characters. Wrestlers. Anything that's effectively trademarked or copyrighted, and that's very long list of things. 

Yeah, that's why DC and Marvel tend to push characters with names that are more easy to claim as "theirs"

 

As opposed to names everyone uses. 

[subbacultchas]

2 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

and remember, just having this policy in place might be enough to placate Marvel.  As long as Homecoming can reasonably say that they're doing their best, and that they are dealing with the infringements within a reasonable timeframe, the courts would likely side with Homecoming.  

Well said. Not all solutions need be perfect.

[Sylar]

Just now, PaxArcana said:

If NCSoft makes the HC servers legit, via a low- or no-cost license ... then NCSoft, as the issuer of that license, could conceivably be held liable.  And Disney/Marvel is a very, very, very big shark indeed.

1. if, and that is a big IF, HC have not made any points as to why they are in a better position than previous attempts to be legit and how the talks will go better than before.

 

2. Marvel tried to sue COH before, and they failed miserably.

 

3. HC is not the only server out there, and if they even cared one bit about the player base they would be representing the ENTIRE community, they are not, so those who also work hard on their ideas and coding will most likely get swept under the rug and sent a C&D while HC reaps the rewards, so yeah i don't support the decisions of this server as of lately because its all a facade until something becomes concrete.

 

4. since i mentioned COH were previously sued, and they won, this code of conduct update changes nothing apart from upsetting those who enjoy their favourites characters.

 

 

[Felis Noctu]

5 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

and remember, just having this policy in place might be enough to placate Marvel.  As long as Homecoming can reasonably say that they're doing their best, and that they are dealing with the infringements within a reasonable timeframe, the courts would likely side with Homecoming.  

2 minutes ago, subbacultchas said:

Well said. Not all solutions need be perfect.

I sure hope so. Disney's a huge fish that likes to throw down over frivolous things just because they can. Just gotta play it safe and cross our fingers!

Edited September 25, 2019 by Felis Noctu

[MetaVileTerror]

As I recall, Cryptic didn't win; they settled.  It might seem like splitting hairs, but it basically means that the door's still open for operations like Homecoming to have a hammer come down on their head from a juggernaut like Disney.

[Haijinx]

On the old live game you definitely could not make Superman and keep it.

 

It would have to be changed in some way substantial. 

[PaxArcana]

6 minutes ago, Sylar said:

1. if, and that is a big IF, HC have not made any points as to why they are in a better position than previous attempts to be legit and how the talks will go better than before.

As has already been pointed out to you: negotiations along those lines are usually conducted with an expectation of confidentiality.  Sometimes, that confidentiality is even enforced via a binding legal contract - an NDA, if you will.

 

6 minutes ago, Sylar said:

2. Marvel tried to sue COH before, and they failed miserably.

They did not fail.  The case was settled out of court.  And, if NCSoft/Cryptic had been 100% confident of their inevitable eventual victory, they would never have accepted Marvel's settlement offer.

 

An out-of-court settlement is not a victory, nor a loss, for any one party.

 

6 minutes ago, Sylar said:

3. HC is not the only server out there, and if they even cared one bit about the player base they would be representing the ENTIRE community, they are not, [...]

HC is the only server known to be in direct talks with NCSoft regarding potential legitimizing.

 

And, the HC devs are absolutely NOT obligated, neither legally nor morally, to represent "the ENTIRE community".  They only need to represent themselves.

 

6 minutes ago, Sylar said:

i don't support the decisions of this server

Then GTFO.  It really is that simple.

 

6 minutes ago, Sylar said:

4. since i mentioned COH were previously sued, and they won,

As I just stated: no, they did not win.  An out-of-court settlement is a TIE, not a victory, nor a loss.

 

No-one (who hasn't gone dead broke) settles when they think they can win.  They settle when they think there is too great a risk of losing.

 

A settlement is a matter of "better to lose a little, than to lose everything ...!"

Edited September 25, 2019 by PaxArcana

[Snakebit]

1 hour ago, Sylar said:

If NCSoft aren't even concerned at this point, why would Marvel or DC or any other franchise give a hoot, especially when this isn't even a legal server?

If you are a trademark owner you must aggressively protect the trademark or the trademark loses it's value.  It doesn't matter if you actually incur damages from the offending material. You cannot allow offending material to exist without challenge, lose or win. For a trademark holder, it is better to make several small complaints that you lose than to not pursue action. In the event that a serious problem comes up down the road, you have established validity and value of the mark. Even if a trademark holder were unable to win any actual damages in a lawsuit against the Homecoming team, it would be a financial disaster for the game and a huge pain in the ass personally for our gracious hosts. 

 

 

[Sylar]

1 minute ago, PaxArcana said:

As has already been pointed out to you: negotiations along those lines are usually conducted with an expectation of confidentiality.  Sometimes, that confidentiality is even enforced via a binding legal contract - an NDA, if you will.

 

They did not fail.  The case was settled out of court.  And, if NCSoft/Cryptic had been 100% confident of their inevitable eventual victory, they would never have accepted Marvel's settlement offer.

 

An out-of-court settlement is not a victory, nor a loss, for any one party.

 

HC is the only server known to be in direct talks with NCSoft regarding potential legitimizing.

 

And, the HC devs are absolutely NOT obligated, neither legally nor morally, to represent "the ENTIRE community".  They only need to represent themselves.

 

Then GTFO.  It really is that simple.

 

As I just stated: no, they did not win.  An out-of-court settlement is a TIE, not a victory, nor a loss.

the wiki clearly states here that while THEY did settle out of court, the points they made in court were "frivolous" and the court was not happy about it, they settled because they knew they lost, its pretty simple.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_of_Heroes#Lawsuit

 

also nice to see the toxicity of SOME memebers is still growing, i remember when people can have an intellectual debate over changes or updates, nope the caveman response is "don't like? GTFO".

[MetaVileTerror]

Just a small point of clarity:  You also settle if you're up against someone who will drag you through the courts for so long that you end up bankrupt, even if you win the case.

[Sylar]

Just now, cejmp said:

If you are a trademark owner you must aggressively protect the trademark or the trademark loses it's value.  It doesn't matter if you actually incur damages from the offending material. You cannot allow offending material to exist without challenge, lose or win. For a trademark holder, it is better to make several small complaints that you lose than to not pursue action. In the event that a serious problem comes up down the road, you have established validity and value of the mark. Even if a trademark holder were unable to win any actual damages in a lawsuit against the Homecoming team, it would be a financial disaster for the game and a huge pain in the ass personally for our gracious hosts. 

 

 

lol HC do not own the IP of coh, that literally makes no sense, also, this server is illegal, so why try to protect it until its legitimate?

[Snakebit]

10 minutes ago, Sylar said:

1. if, and that is a big IF, HC have not made any points as to why they are in a better position than previous attempts to be legit and how the talks will go better than before.

 

2. Marvel tried to sue COH before, and they failed miserably.

 

3. HC is not the only server out there, and if they even cared one bit about the player base they would be representing the ENTIRE community, they are not, so those who also work hard on their ideas and coding will most likely get swept under the rug and sent a C&D while HC reaps the rewards, so yeah i don't support the decisions of this server as of lately because its all a facade until something becomes concrete.

 

4. since i mentioned COH were previously sued, and they won, this code of conduct update changes nothing apart from upsetting those who enjoy their favourites characters.

 

 

 

1. It doesn't matter

 

2. You are straight up wrong. 

 

3. So what and bullshit. 

 

4. You were previously wrong and nobody gives a crap about your fav-5.

 

This affects everyone equally in that we will continue to enjoy the game.

[subbacultchas]

2 minutes ago, Sylar said:

lol HC do not own the IP of coh, that literally makes no sense, also, this server is illegal, so why try to protect it until its legitimate?

When the threat it brings could potentially prevent it becoming legitimate.

I do not really think there will ever be an issue over this. That doesn't matter in the long run if they do though, and as mentioned by others it *could* impact how the talks go.

Edited September 25, 2019 by subbacultchas

[PaxArcana]

Just now, Sylar said:

the wiki clearly states here that while THEY did settle out of court, the points they made in court were "frivolous" and the court was not happy about it, they settled because they knew they lost, its pretty simple.

It's not rocket science, Sylar:

 

If Cryptic and NCSoft were, between them, completely convinced that they would win ...?  They would not have accepted Marvel's settlement offer, the case would have gone to trial, and only then would there be an actual winner and an actual loser.

 

So .... the team of very skilled and well-trained lawyers - who know more than you or I, by a very wide margin - looked at everything, decided that Cryptic's ability to achieve victory was still in doubt by a wide enough margin, that they were compelled to advise their clients (NCSoft and Cryptic) to accept the settlement offer .... because the risk of losing completely, and it's associated effects, was "non-zero" by much to large a margin.

 

...

 

Out of court settlements are TIES.

 

Nobody won that lawsuit.

 

[PaxArcana]

3 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

Just a small point of clarity:  You also settle if you're up against someone who will drag you through the courts for so long that you end up bankrupt, even if you win the case.

If anyone, it was Marvel facing that.  Their finances were shite at the time.  🙂

[Snakebit]

4 minutes ago, Sylar said:

lol HC do not own the IP of coh, that literally makes no sense, also, this server is illegal, so why try to protect it until its legitimate?

I have a feeling that explaining it to you would be fruitless, so here's the skinny...

 

If YOU as a user have an infringing derivative work, it exposes the Homecoming team to legal costs that they should not be exposed for you to play a game. Adult your way through the costume creator. 

Edited September 25, 2019 by cejmp

[PaxArcana]

3 minutes ago, Sylar said:

lol HC do not own the IP of coh, that literally makes no sense, also, this server is illegal, so why try to protect it until its legitimate?

Marvel has to vigorously and actively protect their trademarks.

 

DC has to vigorously and actively protect their trademarks.

 

Disney has to vigorously and actively protect their trademarks.

 

... we're not talking about protecting the CoX IP.  We're talking about very large, deep-pocketed companies being compelled to attack the CoX IP in order to protect their own.

 

Trademark is a nasty thing: if you don't protect it, you LOSE it.

[Ironblade]

1 hour ago, Allekto said:

How will that work with names that are in the public domain but are used by a comic company?

 

Example: Thor.  Marvel owns their own likeness of Thor, but not the name (The old Comico comic company also had a Thor character with a completely different likeness).  Mythological names have been used by multiple companies.

Well, legally, anyone can use the name of Thor since that is an historical/mythological figure.  They just can't pair with the likeness of the version owned by Marvel.
Will Homecoming handle it exactly that way?  Beats me.

[Sylar]

2 minutes ago, cejmp said:

I have a feeling that explaining it to you would be fruitless, so here's the skinny...

 

If YOU as a user have an infringing derivative work, it exposes the Homecoming team to legal costs that they should not be exposed for you to play a game. Adult your way through the costume creator. 

yeah i stopped reading what you wrote after your last reply, you brought nothing of value just petty insults and then you told me to adult my way through the costume creator? hahahaha

 

adult your way through a conversation, then i will take you seriously, if not GTFOH and go back to playing your "licensed server".

[GM Tempest]

Please be civil with one another.

[PaxArcana]

Sylar, seriously, it's clear you're not going to be happy here, with the new policy.

Serious, honest advice time:

 

The code is out there, available.  Grab a copy, run your own server, and you can have whatever policies you want ... or none at all, if that's what you prefer.

 

I honestly suspect you'll be happier doing that.