Claws/Ninjutsu - Scrapper or Stalker?

[TheGentlemanGhostronaut]

Is there a clear edge between them or is it just personal preference?

[Redlynne]

I'm wondering why you aren't considering a Widow of Arachnos ...

[TheGentlemanGhostronaut]

Thematic reasons.

[Radiaria]

The Stalker will be flat out more ST-focused, the Scrapper will be more inclined to do AOE damage. One isn't so massively better than the other, it's your personal preference if you want more AOE or more ST focus. Personally, I prefer the Stalker variant as it appears to be stronger.

[Frostweaver]

I disagree that it's a matter of theme. There are clearly mechanical reasons that claws works vastly better for scrappers than stalkers, although i couldn't tell you much about /nin, as I have never tried the set.

From the point of view of your primary (only) claws is better on scrappers because:
End savings are more important when you don't always get to pick your next fight.
Stalker's crits are rare and selective compared to scrappers... That means slow, high DPA attacks are vastly preferable to fast, efficient, high-dps attacks, which is claw's specialty. Aoe is GOD in this game outside of AV fights, and claws has some of the best... but the stalker version strips out one of the best DPS PBAOE's in the game, Spin. The only melee dps PBAOE that is better than spin is burn.
whirling axe: 4.1
whirling sword: 5.25

spin: 9.3

typhoon: 5.5
lightning rod: 2.3 thuinderstrike and chain are weird to calculate, but are below 5 total.
fire sword circle: 5.3

frozen aura: 4.4

lotus drops: 5.7

Burst: 4.8

Dragontail: 5.25

Mass lev: 5.25
atom smasher: 4.25

savage leap: 3.8 rending on 5 stacks: 4.25
spine burst: 4.0 quills: 5.5
Eye of the storm: 4
spinning strike: 6-8 (depending on combos)
whirling smash: 6-9 (depending on momentum)
whirling mace: 4.6

Also, stalker claws replaces follow up with build up. Don't get me wrong, build up is WAY better than follow up for stalkers, but FU's ability to more or less provide a constant, unending stream of +75% damage for DPS streams on other Melee AT's is the gem of the set. Of the 5 at's that get Claws, stalker is by far the worst.

Claws is top tier for everyone except stalkers. You decide.

Edited October 13, 2019 by Frostweaver

[Hedgefund]

You take Claws for Spin.

Stalker Claws don't get Spin. 

 

Ergo, clear edge to Scraps for this particular primary.  

(I came to this conclusion the hard way years ago, my first 50 Stalker ages ago was Claws)

Edited October 13, 2019 by Hedgefund

[Erydanus]

On ‎10‎/‎13‎/‎2019 at 1:58 PM, Frostweaver said:

i couldn't tell you much about /nin, as I have never tried the set.

Ninjitsu was an original Stalker secondary. It was made for the launch playstyle and is not optimal now because of meta/playstyle changes and ATOs. (Not optimal means it's functional but is down several notches from when it was new. People seem to get defensive about this type of comment so I want to be clear.)

 
In propagating it to scrappers, hide, caltrops, and smoke flash were replaced. The set gained a a self damage boost and knockback protection power; an end recovery power; and an extra defense + run and jump buff toggle with basic stealth powers, making it massively better in my opinion. 

 

Ergo, the Claws/Ninjitsu build would be better on a scrapper by a significant margin. Even if you wanted the stealthy element as a theme there's a basic stealth power not equivalent to hide right there in the set.

 

I mean, now  I'm thinking of rolling an alt... I've rolled an alt and it seems really good in DFB levels. I think that +end power is going to be real handy too.

 

By the way Frostweaver I think you misunderstood the OPs comment about theme. They said a Widow would have been off their character theme not that there were scrapper/stalker thematic differences.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Erydanus
update

[City_of_Jedi]

On 10/21/2019 at 10:43 AM, Erydanus said:

In propagating it to scrappers, hide, caltrops, and smoke flash were replaced. The set gained a a self damage boost and knockback protection power; an end recovery power; and an extra defense + run and jump buff toggle with basic stealth powers, making it massively better in my opinion. 

This.  Scrapper Ninjitsu is on fleek.  If you want to use these two powersets, Scrapper is the better bet.  I think you'll be much happier. 

[FUBARczar]

On 10/21/2019 at 6:43 PM, Erydanus said:

 

Ergo, the Claws/Ninjitsu build would be better on a scrapper by a significant margin. Even if you wanted the stealthy element as a theme there's a basic stealth power not equivalent to hide right there in the set.

 

yep, IMO both are better on Scrappers

[Leogunner]

It's all good though.  I believe Stalkers get the better deal with Ice Melee and Invulnerability.

 

Just how the cookie crumbles.  I think a Claws/Nin Stalker would still have its perks but it seems the Scrapper would win out in basic categories of damage, efficiency and powers options.

[Erydanus]

Yeah I think it's good for different ATs to take advantage of different powers in different ways. The main thing with stalker ninjitsu is just, as I've said before, it was designed for the stalker at launch not as it is now. Having an extra placate was a godsend but now, it's literally just dead weight because there were systematic changes to the AT, including: a bonus critical chance just from teaming, Assassin's Focus where we build up automatic crits on AS; the ATO which puts us back in hide. Ninjitsu was literally crafted to support a playstyle of disengaging and coming back in hide. We just don't need to drop caltrops or smoke bomb and run away and come back, we just power through.