Going forward, can we have more things that mean something?

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Im looking forward as if this will be here for years to come and many things to do,  not just until tomorrow so give me everything now

Let's say you have a character concept where you are a former Nemesis soldier.  Perhaps you even stole a Nemesis staff as you fled.  Maybe this act is central to that character.  Why would you deny that player the ability to wield a Nemesis staff until they're able to get to PI and kill all those Fake Nem's, or wear the brass armor pieces until they accomplished some other arbitrary feat?  What you could do, if you felt the need to "earn" such items, would be to limit your own use of them, until you reached whatever goal you set for yourself - then you could eat your cake and have it too... 

[Hero_of_Light]

What about a separate homecoming server where some small limits like I suggest, and then there's a server with absolutely no limits, but you can't transfer between them? 

[HelBlaiz]

Better idea, instead of getting the armor, completing Vanguard tasks grant uses of the Curse of Weariness or bonuses against Rikti?

[biostem]

5 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

This is an mmorpg, not icon costume creator. 

The costume creator and the ability to realize all sort of varied and unique characters is one of the biggest legs up that CoH has over other MMOs, (especially so at its launch).  I can't imagine how you could gloss over that so easily...

[Omega-202]

6 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Im looking forward as if this will be here for years to come and many things to do,  not just until tomorrow so give me everything now

 

2 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

This is an mmorpg, not icon costume creator.

At the base level we're operating in two different realities.  I am operating in the realistic view that this is a dead game operating illegitimately with a fully volunteer staff that people play for fun and nostalgia.  You seem to be operating under the delusion that this is a new triple A title that will continue to run with full servers for the next 10 years.  

 

We're not going to agree, so I'm done.  I can just relax in the knowledge that nothing will change.  From Live until now, things have only gotten less grindy. 

[HelBlaiz]

1 minute ago, Hero_of_Light said:

What about a separate homecoming server where some small limits like I suggest, and then there's a server with absolutely no limits, but you can't transfer between them? 

Separate server is a good compromise.

[Hero_of_Light]

5 minutes ago, biostem said:

Let's say you have a character concept where you are a former Nemesis soldier.  Perhaps you even stole a Nemesis staff as you fled.  Maybe this act is central to that character.  Why would you deny that player the ability to wield a Nemesis staff until they're able to get to PI and kill all those Fake Nem's, or wear the brass armor pieces until they accomplished some other arbitrary feat?  What you could do, if you felt the need to "earn" such items, would be to limit your own use of them, until you reached whatever goal you set for yourself - then you could eat your cake and have it too... 

What if they just need to earn it on another character and its globally unlocked so that character can have it now?

[Lines]

6 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

You absolutely aren't.  Locking anything away alienates people.  People commenting IN THIS THREAD.  You are for something that would alienate them.  There is no half measure to that.  

 

You're not being reasonable because your preference won't always be catered to.  Sometimes, you're not in the majority, and you have to live with the way things are.  Not everything is up for compromise.

 

There's a few people who have come into this thread and made their position clear, absolutely. And I'd expect that most people who would comment are those who are adverse to the idea - these kinds of suggestions attract opposition as they, as has been discussed, may interfere with gameplay. This isn't enough of a sample to call that a majority, but I'm not going to claim to be in the majority either.

 

It bothers me that the response is to /jranger it. Unlockables were part of the retail game which clearly a few of us reflect fondly on. It was one of my first comments on returning and continues to be my biggest gripe. It's an oversimplification to say that they were there just to take our money. Well by extension, they did so by holding our attention and give us some things to do. A variety of content was rewarded in a variety of ways. The fact that that is gone is a legitimate problem for myself and others, and I'd like that to be recognised and appreciated.

 

I would like to know what you and others would say to the idea of the Nemesis Hussar helmet being locked behind an arc. Literally just the helmet, not the rest of of the costume. Helmet alone. I just want hats.

[Hero_of_Light]

1 minute ago, biostem said:

The costume creator and the ability to realize all sort of varied and unique characters is one of the biggest legs up that CoH has over other MMOs, (especially so at its launch).  I can't imagine how you could gloss over that so easily...

And do you know how many of those pieces needed to be unlocked before use?

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

What if they just need to earn it on another character and its globally unlocked so that character can have it now?

So then it's about the meta, and not actually about character accomplishment;  Might as well just give it away for free...

[Nanolathe]

41 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Why does everyone say I want to lock everything away? Just a few things out of the thousands that we have.  I don't see how 10 out of 1000 is such a horrible idea some people  outright refuse.

If you lock 1 thing away, or 2, or 10, or 25, it's the same problem; some costume parts, alternate attack animations, powers, etc are *key* for some character concepts to work in the mind of their creators. If just one thing is "unreasonable" in terms of when or where it's locked, and/or what it's locked behind, then whole character concepts could be crippled. Perhaps even rendered essentially null and void.

 

If I have to grind until level, say, 35, or 40, or Incarnate lvl shift +4, before I have the chance for my character to behave, look, or act in the way I envisage them, then that puts me off playing that character... and potentially puts me off playing the game. I don't get the same sense of pride and accomplishment that you sound as though you do from completing menial repetitive tasks just to unlock something that actually lets me play in a manner that I find fun.

 

We already have levels to define our character's power. Why do we need grind to define our character's appearance?

 

So, Hero_of_Light, you need to put forward a convincing argument as to why gating cosmetic and/or character defining traits behind - what I see as - a wall. 

 

 

 

[Hero_of_Light]

4 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said:

Better idea, instead of getting the armor, completing Vanguard tasks grant uses of the Curse of Weariness or bonuses against Rikti?

Hmmmm, That's not a bad idea actually... I still would like one costume peice here or there sometimes, like an emblem or hat, or the same model as the free one, but with a glow/gem, or something like that?

[biostem]

4 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

And do you know how many of those pieces needed to be unlocked before use?

Well, back on live, quite a few.  I remember spending a lot of time to unlock that energy shield with the armature, for instance...

[Hero_of_Light]

1 minute ago, Nanolathe said:

If you lock 1 thing away, or 2, or 10, or 25, it's the same problem; some costume parts, alternate attack animations, powers, etc are *key* for some character concepts to work in the mind of their creators. If just one thing is "unreasonable" in terms of when or where it's locked, and/or what it's locked behind, then whole character concepts could be crippled. Perhaps even rendered essentially null and void.

 

If I have to grind until level, say, 35, or 40, or Incarnate lvl shift +4, before I have the chance for my character to behave, look, or act in the way I envisage them, then that puts me off playing that character... and potentially puts me off playing the game. I don't get the same sense of pride and accomplishment that you sound as though you do from completing menial repetitive tasks just to unlock something that actually lets me play in a manner that I find fun.

 

We already have levels to define our character's power. Why do we need grind to define our character's appearance?

 

So, Hero_of_Light, you need to put forward a convincing argument as to why gating cosmetic and/or character defining traits behind - what I see as - a wall. 

 

 

 

That's could be where alternative servers come in. Have one server be basically like the test server where there are no limits, and the other be a server that had some simple limits.

 

Normally if I see a costume peice or power that completes a character idea I have that just drives me to earn it even more, but then again I enjoy challenges and not everyone does. 

[Hero_of_Light]

2 minutes ago, biostem said:

Well, back on live, quite a few.  I remember spending a lot of time to unlock that energy shield with the armature, for instance...

And a lot of us love that aspect of the game too. It was the first game that you could earn character looks that didn't change stats.

[Itikar]

5 minutes ago, Lines said:

I would like to know what you and others would say to the idea of the Nemesis Hussar helmet being locked behind an arc. Literally just the helmet, not the rest of of the costume. Helmet alone. I just want hats.

I can answer for myself, but that would be over the line, consistently with what I have written so far.

 

However, I would not be against locking the permanent full costume change, like those we got for Halloween, behind some content of sort, if it is of any worth to you. First because a full costume change, while it might limit some people, is not a limit to their creativity, the costume is already finished and cannot be modified. And second because currently other full costume changes already require unlocking, so it is not a change to the status quo other people may be fine with.

 

So, I can sum up my position in being in favor of adding more unlockable content of the same kind which is already present, but in being against making any kind of content which is currently unlocked for everybody unlockable, in any form or quantity.

[Nanolathe]

5 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

That's could be where alternative servers come in. Have one server be basically like the test server where there are no limits, and the other be a server that had some simple limits.

 

Normally if I see a costume peice or power that completes a character idea I have that just drives me to earn it even more, but then again I enjoy challenges and not everyone does. 

That is hardly a convincing argument. Please; I'd like to hear what your argument for what such a gating system on cosmetic costume pieces is actually for, other than for the "dedicated" - or sometimes someone who's just lucky - to show off.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Nanolathe

[Hero_of_Light]

And this will be very controversial... but honestly. (Example) If you have long sword 1 2,3,4, and 5 for free, but you don't want to save a lost family in the rikti zone, you don't deserve long sword 6 that the grandmother rewards you with in the first place.

[biostem]

2 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

And a lot of us love that aspect of the game too. It was the first game that you could earn character looks that didn't change stats.

I get where you're coming from, but you cannot satisfy both the people who want to have to earn the costume pieces and those that want them freely accessible from character creation.  Given this, isn't it prudent to go with the less restrictive approach?

[biostem]

1 minute ago, Hero_of_Light said:

And this will be very controversial... but honestly. (Example) If you have long sword 1 2,3,4, and 5 for free, but you don't want to save a lost family in the rikti zone, you don't deserve long sword 6 that the grandmother rewards you with in the first place.

And your character couldn't just pick one up off of the numerous Lost that they defeated, or be gifted one by someone else in there backstory, why?

[HelBlaiz]

The costume change powers earned through ToTing could be neat unlockables.

[Hero_of_Light]

4 minutes ago, biostem said:

And your character couldn't just pick one up off of the numerous Lost that they defeated, or be gifted one by someone else in there backstory, why?

Your character definitely 'could', once you unlocked it on another character. 

 

We never had this problem on live... I rped with people a lot that just went and got stuff when they needed and we were soooo excited when we finally we could finally build a character we wanted!

Edited November 1, 2019 by Hero_of_Light

[Hero_of_Light]

22 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

 

At the base level we're operating in two different realities.  I am operating in the realistic view that this is a dead game operating illegitimately with a fully volunteer staff that people play for fun and nostalgia.  You seem to be operating under the delusion that this is a new triple A title that will continue to run with full servers for the next 10 years.  

 

We're not going to agree, so I'm done.  I can just relax in the knowledge that nothing will change.  From Live until now, things have only gotten less grindy. 

Then I guess you don't keep up with what thr dev's hope to do and how they hope for it to be more than just a reanimated game ?

 

What can I say, I'm always optimistic 

[Hero_of_Light]

22 minutes ago, biostem said:

So then it's about the meta, and not actually about character accomplishment;  Might as well just give it away for free...

No, because originally it had to be earned. Same as costume unlocks in live.

[biostem]

8 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

We never had this problem on live... I rped with people a lot that just went and got stuff when they needed and we were soooo excited when we finally we could finally build a character we wanted!

That's the problem with anecdotes - they aren't indicative of the whole picture.  If I say that I *did* have that problem on live, does it suddenly vindicate my stance?  That's why I'm advocating for the less restrictive approach...