Going forward, can we have more things that mean something?

[Omega-202]

1 minute ago, MunkiLord said:

The fact that more people likely agree with your preference is nothing more than a convenient coincidence. 

There's a reason that the majority is against rolling back the grind.  It's not some mysterious coincidence.  People who want a grind are the minority and this is one of those instances where majority should take precedence.  Especially if the minority opinion would also be a change from the status quo.

[Omega-202]

Just now, MunkiLord said:

Your proclamation about the OP's hidden agenda is you stroking your ego over your awesome insights. I know because I also do it from time to time. So if you're right about the OP, let's not pretend you're any different. 

My egos completely not in this.  I'd be cool with the main servers having instant 50s like test.  We're playing in a 15 year old illegitimate sandbox.  There's no reason we shouldn't all share our toys.  

 

I "earned" my cape over a decade ago.  I think its ridiculous for us to be asked to go back and do all of that again, especially with all of the content the game has now.  

[Itikar]

2 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

I didn't imply anything about your post, reread my comment. That was a reply to someone else.

I see it now. Weird though, I swear when I read it the first time, the first quote was missing. Guess it might be some sort of glitch. Well, sorry about that, we cleared that out at least.

 

[Omega-202]

6 minutes ago, Dragon Crush said:

So I mostly disagree with the unlock crowd since it's biggest pushers are going much further than I would (I'd be happy with just more badges). But would a compromise be possible where a new server where most/everything requires unlocking? We get what, 5 free server transfers every 3 days? Hero_of_Light and others can transfer to a server where you can't use any wings until you kill 5000 enemies with wings and be happy, while the rest of us can continue as is.

 

And perhaps only collect cost from the "need to "earn" everything" crowd for the unlock server, if they don't pay just that one goes down.

There are other servers besides Homecoming where the grind was left in tact.  People can go play there.

[MunkiLord]

1 minute ago, Omega-202 said:

My egos completely not in this.  

Disagree. Calling out the hidden motivation is all about ego. But since I'm doing it too, does that make it a loop? And since we're talking about stroking, does that make it a circle jerk?

[Hero_of_Light]

5 minutes ago, Itikar said:

It can be argued that not having a limit is a limit in itself, even if it's a pretty fallacious argument, but the fact remains the OP and like-minded individuals can set themselves arbitrary goals. On the other hand a hard limit would remove any agency on the players who do not enjoy them, so it is still not on the same level. And that's why, personally, I do not feel like giving even a crumb would be worthwhile in this particular case. Just because a minority wants even a crumb it does not always mean it is a good idea to give them that crumb. This might be more obvious for stuff such as mature or generally unplesant content, but in this case, even if this request is relatively innocuous, in my opinion the loss for the whole community would surpass any benefit for the minority. And that's why I hold such position.

But what if we don't enjoy reaching our own arbitrary goals, but really enjoy beating the challenges set by others.

 

I'm not asking you to forfeit 100 out of 100 costumes you got for free. I'm asking that out of the 10 costumes they add, 1 of them not be free.

 

Your all or nothing attitudes is very mean and selfish because its saying how I enjoy something isn't worth it.

 

Here's an example of how extreme this is

 

Lets say you enjoy all blank for free. But I enjoy all blank needing to be earned. These are completely opposite enjoyments.

 

But because I want everyone to be able to enjoy blank, I offer a compromise.

 

I'm willing to compromise and let you have almost all blank still free, with only a few needing to be earned  that way we both get something we like.  And because I can still enjoy the free ones a little,  I let you have the larger portion of blanks be free.

 

Your not willing to compromise at all and your telling my that my way is wrong and your way is better.

 

 

 

 

[MetaVileTerror]

So there's a desire to have arbitrary goals and challenges set by other people, instead of oneself?  How about this, then:  A subcommunity who act like gymrats and set challenges for one another to accomplish.
You know, like the sort of subcommunity one might fiiiiiiinnnnnnnd . . . https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/28-the-arena-pvp/ here.

[HelBlaiz]

Why, exactly do you enjoy grinding for blank, though? If it's a point of meeting another's challenge, those of you who would like challenges to overcome can set challenges for each other. "The first person to do X gets a purple recipe." I bet the devs could come up with some challenges like that and set them up with the WST maybe?

[MunkiLord]

2 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

So there's a desire to have arbitrary goals and challenges set by other people, instead of oneself?  How about this, then:  A subcommunity who act like gymrats and set challenges for one another to accomplish.
You know, like the sort of subcommunity one might fiiiiiiinnnnnnnd . . . https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/28-the-arena-pvp/ here.

It's crystal clear that in the context of this thread that other people means game/developers. 

[Itikar]

7 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Your not willing to compromise at all and your telling my that my way is wrong and your way is better.

Yeah, maybe selfish too. In my opinion however you are more selfish than I am, but that's just my opinion.

 

As for thinking my way is better and your is, let's say, worse (I don't really like to call it wrong), well, I would not hold such opinion if I did not think it was indeed better than yours.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Itikar

[MetaVileTerror]

So, then, if it's "The Developers," what's the difference now?  The Devs here are just people, after all.  Why should the limits /they/ set have any more meaning than the limits that random strangers or close friends set instead?

 

And, again, for clarity:  This is absolutely a serious question.  I am not mocking or deriding.  I want to know the real answers that these players might have.

[Hero_of_Light]

2 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said:

Why, exactly do you enjoy grinding for blank, though? If it's a point of meeting another's challenge, those of you who would like challenges to overcome can set challenges for each other. "The first person to do X gets a purple recipe." I bet the devs could come up with some challenges like that and set them up with the WST maybe?

That only works if everyone agrees to the challenges and doesn't use set item unless they've earned it.

 

I'm not saying I want coh to become dark souls.

 

I'm saying I enjoy earning something that's a little harder to get and not everyone gets it without trying and I want that involved a little bit in every part of the game like it already is.

 

Every part of the game should have rewards for those that want to put forth effort and not need the player to have to put made up goals on it.

 

I'm starting to have an episode so I can't continue replying, but I'm surprised that these all or nothing attitudes are okay with any limits at all in this game. 

 

[Omega-202]

16 minutes ago, MunkiLord said:

Disagree. Calling out the hidden motivation is all about ego. But since I'm doing it too, does that make it a loop? And since we're talking about stroking, does that make it a circle jerk?

It's not hidden motivation.  Hero's specifically discussed "having" things that other's don't.  Go read their comments here.  Its the thinnest veil of a desire for superiority there is. I just want them to come out and say it so we are all discussing on the same page.

 

I don't feel like quibbling about this further though.  It should be abundantly apparent that Leandro and the rest of the showrunners put this all in place and don't seem interested in rolling back the grind.  There's still so many people in game running level 50s with only SOs and asking to join their first TF that I can't see anything being changed to cater to a grindier audience.  

 

If you or Hero want to flex on people, this isn't the game for it.

 

Edit: Comment above basically has OP come out and say its about flexing on "have nots" so nevermind.  It's definitely an ego thing.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Omega-202

[Hero_of_Light]

3 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

So, then, if it's "The Developers," what's the difference now?  The Devs here are just people, after all.  Why should the limits /they/ set have any more meaning than the limits that random strangers or close friends set instead?

 

And, again, for clarity:  This is absolutely a serious question.  I am not mocking or deriding.  I want to know the real answers that these players might have.

Because then it's a limit on the community that everyone can either enjoy beating, or not.

 

If that holds no value,  why are we playing homecoming at all and not on Icon where we already had exactly what we have here when it comes to costumes, power sets, and classes plus other costumes peices that aren't here.

[MunkiLord]

7 minutes ago, MetaVileTerror said:

So, then, if it's "The Developers," what's the difference now?  The Devs here are just people, after all.  Why should the limits /they/ set have any more meaning than the limits that random strangers or close friends set instead?

 

And, again, for clarity:  This is absolutely a serious question.  I am not mocking or deriding.  I want to know the real answers that these players might have.

The developers are the ones that can put into the game, that's the difference. Some people very well do enjoy player set restrictions, you gave an example and there is one from earlier in the Market section. Some prefer them to be part of the actual game mechanics.

 

3 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

It's not hidden motivation.  Hero's specifically discussed "having" things that other's don't.  Go read their comments here.  Its the thinnest veil of a desire for superiority there is. I just want them to come out and say it so we are all discussing on the same page.

 

I don't feel like quibbling about this further though.  It should be abundantly apparent that Leandro and the rest of the showrunners put this all in place and don't seem interested in rolling back the grind.  There's still so many people in game running level 50s with only SOs and asking to join their first TF that I can't see anything being changed to cater to a grindier audience.  

 

If you or Hero want to flex on people, this isn't the game for it.

Honestly I just wanted to make the terrible circle jerk joke(I use joke very loosely here), that was the entire point of that tangent for me.

Edited November 1, 2019 by MunkiLord

[MetaVileTerror]

So, this might come as a bit of a shock, but:  There is no "earn," by the way.  

This is a game, constructed digitally as a means to represent entirely imaginary concepts through a lens of familiarity.  Whatever "achievements" anyone gets here are tantamount to exactly the same amount of value whether they are acknowledged by People A, B, & C, People D, E, & F, any combination thereof, or even no one at all.

We're right back to those questions I asked you at the start of this thread:  What's the /meaning/ that you're looking for here?  What meaning possibly exists in trying to define something imaginary as "earnt" by any metric?

And, as before, I am not asking this rhetorically.  There are answers out there, but for this discussion to be earnest, we need your honest answers.  Clearly, concisely, and approachable.   Otherwise all we can possibly see in this proposal is "take away people's access to content by gating it behind arbitrary conditions."

[HelBlaiz]

3 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Because then it's a limit on the community that everyone can either enjoy beating, or not.

 

If that holds no value,  why are we playing homecoming at all and not on Icon where we already had exactly what we have here when it comes to costumes, power sets, and classes plus other costumes peices that aren't here.

Because I like playing the game, too. I just don't want anyone telling me I have to kill 500 Malta Sappers if I want the cool backpack, should it ever become an equippable back option.

[MunkiLord]

Just now, HelBlaiz said:

Because I like playing the game, too. I just don't want anyone telling me I have to kill 500 Malta Sappers if I want the cool backpack, should it ever become an equippable back option.

This is a good point, while I'm for the OP suggestion, how it is unlocked is extremely important. I know you were just giving a random example, but it's something that could very well happen if such gated content isn't well thought out and planned. 

[Hero_of_Light]

3 minutes ago, Omega-202 said:

It's not hidden motivation.  Hero's specifically discussed "having" things that other's don't.  Go read their comments here.  Its the thinnest veil of a desire for superiority there is. I just want them to come out and say it so we are all discussing on the same page.

 

I don't feel like quibbling about this further though.  It should be abundantly apparent that Leandro and the rest of the showrunners put this all in place and don't seem interested in rolling back the grind.  There's still so many people in game running level 50s with only SOs and asking to join their first TF that I can't see anything being changed to cater to a grindier audience.  

 

If you or Hero want to flex on people, this isn't the game for it.

 

Edit: Comment above basically has OP come out and say its about flexing on "have nots" so nevermind.  It's definitely an ego thing.

No,  it's about pride in overcoming something and having something to show for it. Everyone should have that. 

 

Let's take SWTOR. I've never been in the top raiding guilds , or best pvp group, ect, and I never got the stuff they did 

 

But I enjoyed the hell out of planetary missions and getting those planet specific rewards like vehicle, costume peices, ect as an example.

 

I'm not asking that they add in something that only 1% of the community could get, although for those that want it, it should be there so that can get it even though I might never could have it.

 

If someone wants to be able to flex that much, let them, and im okay that I won't get that flex.

 

Example

 

If theres a rikti soldier costume peice for free, that's cool and people can have that.

 

But If I want some costume peices that allow me to look a rikti commander, but require that I finish an undercover rikti story arc to unlock ,I should be able to have that too!

 

It's perfectly in reach for almost every player in the game and people telling me im wrong to want that are cruel and short sighted. 

[HelBlaiz]

If it were something along the lines of "Run 10 Malta Radio missions to unlock a cool Malta oriented story arc" that'd be neat. But don't tell the costumers we can't wear the backpack because you want to earn it.

[Hero_of_Light]

4 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said:

If it were something along the lines of "Run 10 Malta Radio missions to unlock a cool Malta oriented story arc" that'd be neat. But don't tell the costumers we can't wear the backpack because you want to earn it.

Im not telling you that you can't,  I'm saying that you need to spend a few minutes running a couple in game missions and beating a Malta story arc to be able to wear that back pack, or be okay with the regular malta backpack

Edited November 1, 2019 by Hero_of_Light

[Omega-202]

2 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

No,  it's about pride in overcoming something and having something to show for it. Everyone should have that.  

This is a superhero video game that takes little to no skill to play.  It is a leisure time activity for people to enjoy in their down time.  

 

I don't want to play armchair psychiatrist here, but this shouldn't be what you derive pride from.  That's just not normal or healthy.  

[Lines]

8 minutes ago, HelBlaiz said:

If it were something along the lines of "Run 10 Malta Radio missions to unlock a cool Malta oriented story arc" that'd be neat. But don't tell the costumers we can't wear the backpack because you want to earn it.

This is a ludicrous suggestion. I object vehemently.

 

No Malta arc could ever be cool.

Edited November 1, 2019 by Lines

[HelBlaiz]

2 minutes ago, Hero_of_Light said:

Im not telling you that you can't,  I'm saying that you need to spend a few minutes running a couple in game missions and beating a Malta story arc to be able to wear that back pack, or be okay with the regular malta backpack

That requires costumers to be grinders. In order for me to play MY way, I suddenly need to play YOUR way.

[MetaVileTerror]

"Pride" and "something to show for it."

There's a LOT that could be unpacked from there.
This server could be shut down tomorrow.  We already saw the old server got shut down with scarcely any warning.  What is there to "show" when that happens?  Who do you show it to?  What sense of pride can you feel in something that can be arbitrarily switched on or off?  Do you feel that your peers will respect you if you unlock these things?  

Have you asked these questions of yourself?

 

 . . . look . . . I'll level with you, but I have to get going, so I'll give you the short version:

You're exhibiting signs of being exactly the kind of person who I used to victimize when I used to work in the game's industry.

Yeah.  I'm one of those.  I'm one of the bad guys.

 

I was one of those disgusting assholes who intentionally exploited people just like you to make a despicable corporation more money than it could ever use.

And I hate myself for having been there and done that.  

 

So, yeah.  I am biased here.  I have a personal history that I'm bringing to the table.  I was (allegorically) the school yard drug pusher getting kids hooked on smack who had a turn of heart.

 

The questions I am tossing to you are meant to do one thing:  Get you to critically analyse your own reasons for your proposal.  To REALLY get down and answer "Why" to yourself.  Why does it matter to you.  What possible good do you think it will actually do in your life?

 

'cause from where I am sitting, with the experiences I've had and the hands I've played . . . I can tell you this:  The path you're on is exactly the one which monsters lurk upon, ready to feed.