Have the talks with NCsoft slowed down content progression?

[jubakumbi]

6 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

Agreed. But in this specific instance (clipping costume parts) I think they are doing it wrong.  😛

 

Others may be fine with the clipping costumer parts. And that's okay. We can discuss the whys and why nots and then the devs will ultimately make the decision.

 

That said the players (on ALL the servers) have to remember that we are dealing with volunteers, and each server will move at it's own pace. If HC decides to focus on story content ahead of customer parts (honestly what I would personally prefer, others may disagree) that is NOT inherently wrong. Just as it's not wrong for other servers to focus on costume parts and new ATs ahead of story content or foundational code changes.

Yup.

Personally not a fan of clipping myself, I avoind using them.

 

But it's this 'devs make the decision' thing...

It's just volunteers that get inspired to do things.

Player desire has an impact on those inspirations.

 

There are just volunteers adding things that inspire them.

Pushing this idea that there are 'devs' to make choices for the rest of us is, IMO, old school corp thinking coupled with the desire to have one true authority...

Edited November 7, 2019 by jubakumbi
gramerz

[Abraxus]

5 minutes ago, golstat2003 said:

As a reminder of what Jimmy said earlier.

Yep.  No pontificating there.  Just a overview about the state of things, and the hopes for the future.  But, no disparagement about what folks are asking for, or what other servers are doing.  Just focused on their own track of development, which is probably hindered a bit by the efforts, and time needed to accommodate the NCSoft talks.  Lot's of discussion, paperwork, and lawyer stuffs, no doubt.  When I see just what we know about that is on their plate, and there is probably a considerable amount that we aren't aware of, I feel even more strongly that they are doing great.

Edited November 7, 2019 by Abraxus

[jubakumbi]

Just now, Abraxus said:

Yep.  No pontificating there.  Just a statement about the state of things, and the hopes for the future.  But, no disparagement about what folks are asking for, or what other servers are doing.  Just focused on their own track of development, which is probably hindered a bit by the efforts, and time needed to accommodate the NCSoft talks.  Lot's of discussion, paperwork, and lawyer stuffs, no doubt.  When I see just what we know about that is on their plate, and there is probably a considerable amount that we aren't aware of, I feel even more strongly that they are doing great.

While I love your positive and reassuring outlook, we are still running on hype with very little real data to show that anything like what you describe is actually occuring in the background.

I know it's not a popular opinion here, you know I have been roasted over, but all we have is hopes and promises with little to no real data.

That is just fine I guess for people that do not normally think about these things.

 

I help sell, build, and deploy contracts, software, and IP as a career.

 

Nothing is going to make me put on the rose colored spectacles.

 

Until we have some actual data, this just remains a very laudable group of people that are making a lot of other people happy by running a stable version of a game once lost, claiming to be capable of becoming a corporation that can pick up the IP and run with it, filled with hype, intrigue, hearsay, and hope and few published facts to back it up...

 

As stated, I am simply not one who 'believes', show me the data, show me the contracts, show me the terms, show me any real evidence NCSoft and HC have any sort of real deal cooking...

Better yet, show me where HC is actively trying to get NCSoft to release the code in such a fashion that anyone can use it, not just a select few, because that's the best thing for the game, IMO.

[golstat2003]

14 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Yup.

Personally not a fan of clipping myself, I avoind using them.

 

But it's this 'devs make the decision' thing...

It's just volunteers that get inspired to do things.

Player desire has an impact on those inspirations.

 

There are just volunteers adding things that inspire them.

Pushing this idea that there are 'devs' to make choices for the rest of us is, IMO, old school corp thinking coupled with the desire to have one true authority...

When I say devs, I mean the folks in charge of deploying the code to the server. That could be anyone (and in the future may or may not be volunteers, depending on how the talks go with NCSoft--who knows 🤷‍♂️)

 

then again there ARE some decisions that shouldn't be left to the whim of ordinary players. (those who don't know, touch or look a the sphagetti code).

 

For instance when the folks who have looked at the code say "increasing the aggro cap for tanks will increase it for every player" I tend to take them at their word that this would be a bad thing, as they've looked at the code.

[golstat2003]

3 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

While I love your positive and reassuring outlook, we are still running on hype with very little real data to show that anything like what you describe is actually occuring in the background.

I know it's not a popular opinion here, you know I have been roasted over, but all we have is hopes and promises with little to no real data.

That is just fine I guess for people that do not normally think about these things.

 

I help sell, build, and deploy contracts, software, and IP as a career.

 

Nothing is going to make me put on the rose colored spectacles.

 

Until we have some actual data, this just remains a very laudable group of people that are making a lot of other people happy by running a stable version of a game once lost, claiming to be capable of becoming a corporation that can pick up the IP and run with it, filled with hype, intrigue, hearsay, and hope and few published facts to back it up...

 

As stated, I am simply not one who 'believes', show me the data, show me the contracts, show me the terms, show me any real evidence NCSoft and HC have any sort of real deal cooking...

Better yet, show me where HC is actively trying to get NCSoft to release the code in such a fashion that anyone can use it, not just a select few, because that's the best thing for the game, IMO.

If this is the typical negotiation the parties are not allowed to show that data. I have no doubt if that was broken here the entire thing would come crashing down. I'd rather they take their time and update us as they have. That's all we can ask. 

 

Also for this: "where HC is actively trying to get NCSoft to release the code in such a fashion that anyone can use it, not just a select few, because that's the best thing for the game, IMO." I doubt ANYONE will ever convince NCSoft of that.

 

I think at the end of the day we'll continue to have two branches, one that is i25 and one that is i24 that everyone else is using. I'm fine with that.

 

What I WOULD NOT be fine with is if HC servers need to revert back to i24. I would be out.

 

[Abraxus]

Until May of this year, where this game is concerned, we didn't even have hope.  Now, we do.  I remain grateful for that, and the RARE second chance to play the only game I have really wanted to play, since 2004.  They wouldn't have to make another single change to the game, and I'd be fine.  But, I know others feel differently on that one.  I guess I don't require any promises, assurances, or proof of anything.  What I have is the reality of being able to play, where that was not the case before.  Anything else that comes to add to that, is welcome, but by no means do I feel like it is owed to me, or that the whole thing goes down the tubes without MORE stuff.  They have a plan, and what little I know of it, I'm fine with.  Others will feel differently, and that's fine.  But, expecting more than the miracle that we already received in getting this game back in the first place, is kind of looking a gift horse in the mouth.  We got what we wished for these 7 years past, and as soon as the honeymoon was over, we immediately wanted more.  I guess I'm one of the few who really didn't, but was happy that they were trying anyway.

[golstat2003]

Just now, Abraxus said:

Until May of this year, where this game is concerned, we didn't even have hope.  Now, we do.  I remain grateful for that, and the RARE second chance to play the only game I have really wanted to play, since 2004.  They wouldn't have to make another single change to the game, and I'd be fine.  But, I know others feel differently on that one.  I guess I don't require any promises, assurances, or proof of anything.  What I have is the reality of being able to play, where that was not the case before.  Anything else that comes to add to that, is welcome, but by no means do I feel like it is owed to me, or that the whole thing goes down the tubes without MORE stuff.  They have a plan, and what little I know of it, I'm fine with.  Others will feel differently, and that's fine.  But, expecting more than the miracle that we already received in getting this game back in the first place, is kind of looking a gift horse in the mouth.  We got what we wished for these 7 years past, and as soon as the honeymoon was over, we immediately wanted more.  I guess I'm one of the few who really didn't, but was happy that they were trying anyway.

Pretty much where I am. Any additional change I'm grateful for. For the longest time I thought this game would never return in any form. I'm probably the most patient when it comes to game updates. I can literally wait years for games to get updates or be released on PC, while everyone else plays it on XBOX ONE or PS4 for over a year.

 

Then again most gamers are not like me. LOL

[jubakumbi]

10 minutes ago, Abraxus said:

Until May of this year, where this game is concerned, we didn't even have hope.  Now, we do.  I remain grateful for that, and the RARE second chance to play the only game I have really wanted to play, since 2004.  They wouldn't have to make another single change to the game, and I'd be fine.  But, I know others feel differently on that one.  I guess I don't require any promises, assurances, or proof of anything.  What I have is the reality of being able to play, where that was not the case before.  Anything else that comes to add to that, is welcome, but by no means do I feel like it is owed to me, or that the whole thing goes down the tubes without MORE stuff.  They have a plan, and what little I know of it, I'm fine with.  Others will feel differently, and that's fine.  But, expecting more than the miracle that we already received in getting this game back in the first place, is kind of looking a gift horse in the mouth.  We got what we wished for these 7 years past, and as soon as the honeymoon was over, we immediately wanted more.  I guess I'm one of the few who really didn't, but was happy that they were trying anyway.

I am grateful for all of this as well.

I agree with everything you say here, I do.

 

What I rail against is the hype train.

The fact is we can play the game, on a couple of differing code bases and that there are people willing to continue to make that happen.

 

The rest is all hype and promises.

 

As @golstat2003states, I agree that getting NCSoft to relase the code in some 'community' fashion is a pipe dream.

This is why I am as pragmatic on this.

IMO, the only possible outcomes keep the IP and code controlled by a select few who want to be able to tell the rest of us 'how it will be'.

I am well aware contractual discussions that hold specifics cannot be revealed, but even huge publicly traded companies can and do reveal they are 'in talks' for all sorts of things, so I know it is within the bounds of reality for some level of the details to be made public, because I have personaly participated in such corporate level hijinks.

 

I am also aware that the company that owns the code and IP does not have the same western coporate outlook that I typically have to deal with day to day, or the game would have already been sold years ago.

 

All we have is a couple of supposed sympathic ears at NCSoft who are tyring to help.

I have been in that position too many times to count, I can count three active deals right now where we have a sympathic ear in the clients company, but it means nothing if the people who hold the $ control don't get onboard.

I am well aware even getting a meeting with those people can take months for something they don't see as high value, but that things they do value get moved quickly.

 

I am not impatient for any of this to occur.

I am in no hurry, like many the game in the current state provides me a ton of fun, on two code bases.

 

I will not, however, get onboard with trying to villify any of these groups, even while trying to get real data to trickle out of them.

All of the server runners are doing great work IMO, all with the intent of having fun with the game.

 

Meanwhile, we have gamers that still think there has to be a 'side' and that they have to be part of the right 'tribe' and that the 'others' do it worng.

 

[Jimmy]

13 minutes ago, jubakumbi said:

Meanwhile, we have gamers that still think there has to be a 'side' and that they have to be part of the right 'tribe' and that the 'others' do it worng.

Indeed. We're doing things in the way that we think is best (obviously, otherwise why would we be doing it this way? 😀), but that doesn't mean the other servers are doing it wrong. They're just doing things differently.

 

We won't deride any player for wanting to play on another server because they want something different out of the game.

[Abraxus]

1 hour ago, Jimmy said:

Indeed. We're doing things in the way that we think is best (obviously, otherwise why would we be doing it this way? 😀), but that doesn't mean the other servers are doing it wrong. They're just doing things differently.

 

We won't deride any player for wanting to play on another server because they want something different out of the game.

I always felt that was true, and it's cool that you took the time to confirm it everyone.  Thanks!

Edited November 7, 2019 by Abraxus

[jubakumbi]

9 minutes ago, Jimmy said:

Indeed. We're doing things in the way that we think is best (obviously, otherwise why would we be doing it this way? 😀), but that doesn't mean the other servers are doing it wrong. They're just doing things differently.

 

We won't deride any player for wanting to play on another server because they want something different out of the game.

Excellent post.

I think many of the HC players should see this upon Login. 🙂

[TyrantMikey]

Someone call a scrapper. This thread needs to be put out of its misery.

Edited November 7, 2019 by TyrantMikey

[roleki]

4 hours ago, jubakumbi said:

Excellent post.

I think many of the HC players should see this upon Login. 🙂

Is there a particular thread HC players go to when they want to bash other CoX dev teams?  Because honestly and for true, I am all over these boards and the next time I see an HC player bashing a non-HC dev team will be the very first time.  

 

Meanwhile, I see plenty of people on these boards bashing the HC team and/or deriding their player base as being nothing more than submissive sheep, while accusing the HC dev team and player base of doing the same.

 

It all seems like so much projection.

Edited November 7, 2019 by roleki