Enemy attack paths

[RikOz]

I've started noticing something: when enemies run up to you, they never run straight at you. They run to the right or left and then make a little hook and attack you from the side.

 

Wondering if this is deliberate, and if so, what was the rationale behind it? I mean, if it's a full three-man spawn coming at me at the same time, sure, it doesn't surprise me when they take different paths, since they can't all occupy the same space. But it also happens when it's just a lone mob.

 

Not really important, just curious.

[Twisted Toon]

Well, you know how habits are. Bob, Fred, and Andrew practiced that formation attack for weeks. Now, when Andrew is sick, and Bob is on a date with his Girlfriend from Hell, Fred just uses the attack formation from habit.

[Ironblade]

16 hours ago, RikOz said:

I've started noticing something: when enemies run up to you, they never run straight at you. They run to the right or left and then make a little hook and attack you from the side.

 

Wondering if this is deliberate, and if so, what was the rationale behind it?

My guess would be that it's a holdover from games where you have to actually aim.  In this game, we just hit tab to lock onto a target.  In many other games, you get crosshairs and you have to actually hit the target.

 

I play a lot of Left 4 Dead 2 and when the zombies are charging you, they basically run serpentine.  It makes it much harder to hit them than if they mindlessly ran straight at you.

[DougGraves]

My guess is they select between multiple random paths.  There probably is a straight path but that might be one out of 16 paths.  Easier to have them choose a slightly randomized path then to have the game know how many mobs are moving at you and then selecting a different path for each.  And if they all just ran straight at you it would be easy to get them to stand in a clump and hit them with sands of mu.

[Outrider_01]

1 hour ago, Ironblade said:

My guess would be that it's a holdover from games where you have to actually aim.  In this game, we just hit tab to lock onto a target.  In many other games, you get crosshairs and you have to actually hit the target.

 

I play a lot of Left 4 Dead 2 and when the zombies are charging you, they basically run serpentine.  It makes it much harder to hit them than if they mindlessly ran straight at you.

Not sure when you started CoH, but I played since shortly after release to about I12-13ish.  The npcs have never had sophisticated pathing and pretty sure the cryptic devs never really programmed beyond zero target, jump objects, and go around walls.  EQ1, just mob along set paths and that was 1999.  Nothing sophisticated, they just blob when they get to you while trying to move around their buddies which would explain the odd behavior for 1, server finding single path like when there are many.

[RikOz]

In WoW, where player models and enemy models can indeed overlap, a group of mobs would run straight at you, overlapping each other, and then spread out around you once they got there.

[Twisted Toon]

20 hours ago, DougGraves said:

 And if they all just ran straight at you it would be easy to get them to stand in a clump and hit them with sands of mu.

It's not that easy already?

[RikOz]

I forgot to add my main reason for asking: The indirect paths make it rather challenging to manage my knockback. I try to align myself with the mob so that, if one of my powers procs its "chance for KB", it's not going to knock the mob off the 3rd-level catwalk in an office map, or knock him into a crowd of other mobs. I mean, it's easy enough to avoid that kind of thing if I have a specific power that KBs enemies, because then I can use it strategically when necessary. It's these powersets (like Energy, both ranged and melee) where you just get these random, unpredictable KBs when you least want it. This is one reason I've started avoiding rescuing Overdrive in alignment missions - she's always knocking my targets all over the place, which is really annoying when I'm melee and the guy I'm punching goes flying away from me. And knocking enemies off of balconies in office maps is extremely aggravating when it's one of the mobs guarding the hostage I'm trying to rescue. It's either fly down there and try to find him (difficult if the KBd mob isn't the one I had targeted), or stand around twiddling my thumbs waiting for them to find their way back to me.

[MetaVileTerror]

I may not be remembering correctly, but I seem to recall the maps have the paths pre-written in an invisible layer (but you can make visible with Dev commands on Paragon Chat).  The AI for an individual enemy looks at these paths, calls "dibs" on it, and follows it.  
This is just based on observation and deduction, though.  I haven't poked in to the code itself here.  I could be very wrong.

[Replacement]

18 hours ago, MetaVileTerror said:

I may not be remembering correctly, but I seem to recall the maps have the paths pre-written in an invisible layer (but you can make visible with Dev commands on Paragon Chat).  The AI for an individual enemy looks at these paths, calls "dibs" on it, and follows it.  
This is just based on observation and deduction, though.  I haven't poked in to the code itself here.  I could be very wrong.

This sounds like a Navmesh, which is certainly what a lot of other games use.

 

Talking out of my ghostly Casper bottom here, but I wonder if a sort of "low resolution" mesh (few lines and thus vertices) would result in this sort of behavior.

 

Basically, imagine players are standing on a chess board with very tiny squares, while the NPC version has much larger tiles.

Edited November 17, 2019 by Replacement

[RikOz]

1 hour ago, Replacement said:

Basically, imagine players are standing on a chess board with very tiny squares, while the NPC version has much larger tiles

And NPCs attack like knights 😄

 

It's very consistent - a lone enemy will run a straight line about 10 degrees to my right (as I'm facing them), and then at the last second make a hook toward me.

 

I actually first noticed this when fighting Pumicites in The Hollows. It was very obvious due to the speed those guys move at, and it looked like they were purposely programmed to try to run around behind me. But then I started noticing it in other missions with different mobs.

[nzer]

On 11/17/2019 at 8:52 AM, Replacement said:

This sounds like a Navmesh, which is certainly what a lot of other games use.

 

Talking out of my ghostly Casper bottom here, but I wonder if a sort of "low resolution" mesh (few lines and thus vertices) would result in this sort of behavior.

 

Basically, imagine players are standing on a chess board with very tiny squares, while the NPC version has much larger tiles.

Afaik navmeshes just define the traversible area, they don't necessarily define specific paths agents can take. CoH would likely have both.

[Andrewvm]

On 11/15/2019 at 6:10 PM, Twisted Toon said:

Well, you know how habits are. Bob, Fred, and Andrew practiced that formation attack for weeks. Now, when Andrew is sick, and Bob is on a date with his Girlfriend from Hell, Fred just uses the attack formation from habit.

I'm not sick! 

I'm just watching my friends face plant from behind these crates here 

[Nafsmar]

19 hours ago, Andrewvm said:

I'm not sick! 

I'm just watching my friends face plant from behind these crates here 

So with Fred out of the way you’re hoping to talk Bob into dumping the GFH so you can have her. You were always slighted that she chose him weren’t you?

[Andrewvm]

14 hours ago, Nafsmar said:

So with Fred out of the way you’re hoping to talk Bob into dumping the GFH so you can have her. You were always slighted that she chose him weren’t you?

Actually I'm in it for the inheritance, Fred invested heavily in Vahz medical supplies..... 

[Nafsmar]

Can’t say that that’s much of an investment I mean outside of tranq guns and overalls what do them guys actually use? Personally I cannot stand the Vahlizok. They are vastly overpowered at low levels and they like to throw up a lot. But the single worst thing is I never ever see them use hand sanitizer in between victims. I mean think of the cross-contamination. What kind of medical school did they go to anyway?

[Twisted Toon]

1 hour ago, Nafsmar said:

Can’t say that that’s much of an investment I mean outside of tranq guns and overalls what do them guys actually use? Personally I cannot stand the Vahlizok. They are vastly overpowered at low levels and they like to throw up a lot. But the single worst thing is I never ever see them use hand sanitizer in between victims. I mean think of the cross-contamination. What kind of medical school did they go to anyway?

They went to Doc Vahzilok's School of Medical Mayhem. Where sanitary work conditions is optional.

[Andrewvm]

On 11/20/2019 at 6:23 PM, Nafsmar said:

Can’t say that that’s much of an investment I mean outside of tranq guns and overalls what do them guys actually use? Personally I cannot stand the Vahlizok. They are vastly overpowered at low levels and they like to throw up a lot. But the single worst thing is I never ever see them use hand sanitizer in between victims. I mean think of the cross-contamination. What kind of medical school did they go to anyway?

Ehm, high tech transplantation gear? A very big library or organs and limbs to sell to the highest bidder? I see a pretty penny to be earned there......