Why no villains?

[Nightmarer]

I personally think that villain content from lvl 40 onwards kinda sucks, seems that devs thought "let's throw them a bunch of AV's, they'll love it" and the 40-50 content redside seems half arsed. Got a couple of villains since the story arcs up to lvl 40 are awesome and once I get to lvl 40 -41 with epic arcs done, will probably take them heroside unless I have managed not to outlvl any bank robbery mish, in which case will wait until I have all badges for Accolade.

[Ghostchase]

100% villain, always was, always will be. Takes a certain type to enjoy the surroundings and to scheme and plot in less congested space like that of Hero side.

[labmouse42]

I think the hero sides just look better. 

[Healix]

Sometimes it is fun to be EBIL.....the villain side is great and has a different feel, when you need a change.

[Charistoph]

It boils down to this, IMO. If you have to use unique access to something desirable as the only means of getting people to play specific content, then its the content that needs to be fixed. If it was enjoyable to most it would not need to use restrictions to gain players.

 

You mean like every expansion for every MMORPG that has lived long enough to have an expansions?

 

WoW has different content depending on which faction you are in and which class you are playing (even back at launch, but better during the Legion cycle).

 

SWtOR actually provides different content based on your character's class in an individual story you can shape, along with the general stories going on each planet.

 

Everquest is up to how many expansions now, and some of that content you had to have a different character to see.

 

Sorry, but that's been around longer than CoH, and deserves to be around a lot longer.  Not every MMORPG can be Final Fantasy XI.

[Dr. Gemini]

You mean like every expansion for every MMORPG that has lived long enough to have an expansions?

 

WoW has different content depending on which faction you are in and which class you are playing (even back at launch, but better during the Legion cycle).

 

SWtOR actually provides different content based on your character's class in an individual story you can shape, along with the general stories going on each planet.

 

Everquest is up to how many expansions now, and some of that content you had to have a different character to see.

 

Sorry, but that's been around longer than CoH, and deserves to be around a lot longer.  Not every MMORPG can be Final Fantasy XI.

 

Most MMOs that I've tried have different starting areas for different classes. Those zones take up very little of your playing time and mostly act as tutorials before you are thrust into the mix with every other class. Then, later in the game, there are places or stories only certain classes can enter. Big difference between that and being forced into a certain area for your first, what, 20 levels, 30? I forget where tip missions start. You're comparing apples and oranges there.

[Charistoph]

You mean like every expansion for every MMORPG that has lived long enough to have an expansions?

 

WoW has different content depending on which faction you are in and which class you are playing (even back at launch, but better during the Legion cycle).

 

SWtOR actually provides different content based on your character's class in an individual story you can shape, along with the general stories going on each planet.

 

Everquest is up to how many expansions now, and some of that content you had to have a different character to see.

 

Sorry, but that's been around longer than CoH, and deserves to be around a lot longer.  Not every MMORPG can be Final Fantasy XI.

 

Most MMOs that I've tried have different starting areas for different classes. Those zones take up very little of your playing time and mostly act as tutorials before you are thrust into the mix with every other class. Then, later in the game, there are places or stories only certain classes can enter. Big difference between that and being forced into a certain area for your first, what, 20 levels, 30? I forget where tip missions start. You're comparing apples and oranges there.

 

Hardly.  There are only a few zones on Azeroth where a Horde player and an Alliance player will have access to the exact same storylines, even if they are both in there.  Outland, Wrath, and Pandaria have content that is the same in the later parts, but are split perspectives in half of them.  Draenor has two zones where the content can only be touched at all by one faction aside from the "World Missions".  Legion has the Order Halls which are unique to each class, if not each faction, and one zone where they take different routes to similar reach similar points.  BfA now has completely separate content (even if the zones are shared, you do vastly different things there) for both factions.  I think Cataclysm is the only one where, aside from the Worgen/Goblin starter content, the factions do the same things across the board with only an occasional nod to Faction politics (aside from Thrall's breakdown).

 

Everquest has towns where your alignment is absolutely important, and you have to work to become friendly with them, and its even worse for the Iksar.

 

SWtOR literally can have you go through the original content and never share content that another class can have aside from the tutorial zones (so long as you are paying, that's roughly 12-60).  That's the exact opposite of what you are saying.  Heck, some classes you may want to run through several times because choices alter the storyline a little bit, ala Mass Effect.

 

That doesn't include the expansions which have a pay wall, either.

 

Now, of course, most MMORPGs don't have that, but there has been a huge glut of crap MMORPGs which are the oriental grind-fests which really don't DO anything to differentiate between one faction and another other than say, "others bad" if they bother having any different factions at all.

 

Guild Wars 2 is easy to get most of their content the same, but they do have storylines based on certain aspects of creation which each race has at least 3 different variants of.  If I remember right, Archeage is the same, too.

 

The Final Fantasy's, though, are set up so that you can do everything on one character.  So it is natural for you to be able to do everything in one go.  Tera's storyline is extremely linear and most oriental MMORPGs can be following its pattern.

 

Those are just the big ones I can think of off hand.

 

And I LIKE having all that separate content, because it actually rewards me to be an altoholic.  SWtOR feeds that even more because completing a class's original storyline allows you to cast that class's self-buff even on the other classes.  In addition, maxing out the companions' affections helped buff up the companions of your other characters.

[Heraclea]

Primarily because there's more content available for heroes.

 

Hero-side there's 11 normal 'city' zones, 9 Hazard Zones, 6 Trial Zones, and the tutorial zone.

Villain-side there's 7 normal city zones, 1 hazard zone, 1 trial zone, and the tutorial zone.

 

Heroes can fight off 10 giant monsters, Villains have 5.

 

Heroes have 20 task forces, villains have 10 strike forces. There's 4 co-operative ones.

 

This is part of the problem. 

 

Blueside, there is enough content that you get to pick your enemies.  Redside you pretty much have to do each zone in sequence.  I never got a mastermind past Sharkhead when they were exclusively redside.  Blueside, they are probably much more fun.

 

Blueside, there is enough content that if you prefer not to fight Vahzilok or Clockwork or Malta or Carnies, you can move from one to fifty without ever setting foot in one of those missions.  Redside, you pretty much have to take what you're given. 

 

The problem is even bigger goldside.  People complain that it's harder to get into teams there.  Seriously, the goldside content is very unfriendly to big teams.  You do not want to get bosses or large spawns there.  Other late additions to the game like revamped Dark Astoria or Night Ward have similar issues with mob groups that are apparently balanced to single player, +0, no boss spawns.  Whoever thought it was a good idea to make kinetic Tsoo minions - what on earth were they thinking?  I played through that once, on my reflex/Dark Melee untouchable scrapper, and realized that I wouldn't want to do it on any other character, nor would I ever want to run it on a team.  Likewise, once through  Praetoria with its massed Seers was enough, especially since there's no real avoiding them.  This misses some of the major forms of fun the game offers. 

[Dr. Gemini]

Hardly.  There are only a few zones on Azeroth where a Horde player and an Alliance player will have access to the exact same storylines, even if they are both in there.  Outland, Wrath, and Pandaria have content that is the same in the later parts, but are split perspectives in half of them.  Draenor has two zones where the content can only be touched at all by one faction aside from the "World Missions".  Legion has the Order Halls which are unique to each class, if not each faction, and one zone where they take different routes to similar reach similar points.  BfA now has completely separate content (even if the zones are shared, you do vastly different things there) for both factions.  I think Cataclysm is the only one where, aside from the Worgen/Goblin starter content, the factions do the same things across the board with only an occasional nod to Faction politics (aside from Thrall's breakdown).

 

Everquest has towns where your alignment is absolutely important, and you have to work to become friendly with them, and its even worse for the Iksar.

 

SWtOR literally can have you go through the original content and never share content that another class can have aside from the tutorial zones (so long as you are paying, that's roughly 12-60).  That's the exact opposite of what you are saying.  Heck, some classes you may want to run through several times because choices alter the storyline a little bit, ala Mass Effect.

 

That doesn't include the expansions which have a pay wall, either.

 

Now, of course, most MMORPGs don't have that, but there has been a huge glut of crap MMORPGs which are the oriental grind-fests which really don't DO anything to differentiate between one faction and another other than say, "others bad" if they bother having any different factions at all.

 

Guild Wars 2 is easy to get most of their content the same, but they do have storylines based on certain aspects of creation which each race has at least 3 different variants of.  If I remember right, Archeage is the same, too.

 

The Final Fantasy's, though, are set up so that you can do everything on one character.  So it is natural for you to be able to do everything in one go.  Tera's storyline is extremely linear and most oriental MMORPGs can be following its pattern.

 

Those are just the big ones I can think of off hand.

 

And I LIKE having all that separate content, because it actually rewards me to be an altoholic.  SWtOR feeds that even more because completing a class's original storyline allows you to cast that class's self-buff even on the other classes.  In addition, maxing out the companions' affections helped buff up the companions of your other characters.

 

Which is why I said "MMOs I've played".

 

So, you're saying that in these games you choose a faction or class and cannot play with any other faction or class? Never played WoW, didn't know you spent the game completely seperated from any other faction like City of originally did it. From your description, SwtOR is the exact opposite it was in beta and early game, as you only shared the tutorial zones with one other class and the rest, aside from some story missions tailored to your class here and there, shared zones and missions with every other class. Though, to me, the phrase "can have you go through the original content and never share content that another class can have" implies player choice. So if I CAN do what you say, that implies I CAN also do shared content. I see many similar qualifiers in your post that implies choice.

 

 

[Penultima]

My personal answer is that I am a hero, not a villain.

 

I play redside to be completionist, but I feel bad about it.

 

I'm the type of girl who would find a 100 dollar bill on the sidewalk and turn it in to the police. Volunteering, passing up contest entries for things someone else might need more, losing sleep on worknights to help friends and strangers who need someone to talk to.

 

I live my life literally, by the codes of Superman, The Green Lantern Corps, and Starfleet. (Note: This does drive my slightly less Paladin-style wife nuts on occasions, like when I help tidy store shelves or return carts for people, pick up tabs for strangers in trouble at the grocery store, donate all my change, etc).

 

As I once saw posted...

 

"Why do people play good guys in no-consequence games?"

 

"Because my ultimate power fantasy is being able to help everyone."

[Dr. Gemini]

Hardly.  There are only a few zones on Azeroth where a Horde player and an Alliance player will have access to the exact same storylines, even if they are both in there.  Outland, Wrath, and Pandaria have content that is the same in the later parts, but are split perspectives in half of them.  Draenor has two zones where the content can only be touched at all by one faction aside from the "World Missions".  Legion has the Order Halls which are unique to each class, if not each faction, and one zone where they take different routes to similar reach similar points.  BfA now has completely separate content (even if the zones are shared, you do vastly different things there) for both factions.  I think Cataclysm is the only one where, aside from the Worgen/Goblin starter content, the factions do the same things across the board with only an occasional nod to Faction politics (aside from Thrall's breakdown).

 

Everquest has towns where your alignment is absolutely important, and you have to work to become friendly with them, and its even worse for the Iksar.

 

SWtOR literally can have you go through the original content and never share content that another class can have aside from the tutorial zones (so long as you are paying, that's roughly 12-60).  That's the exact opposite of what you are saying.  Heck, some classes you may want to run through several times because choices alter the storyline a little bit, ala Mass Effect.

 

That doesn't include the expansions which have a pay wall, either.

 

Now, of course, most MMORPGs don't have that, but there has been a huge glut of crap MMORPGs which are the oriental grind-fests which really don't DO anything to differentiate between one faction and another other than say, "others bad" if they bother having any different factions at all.

 

Guild Wars 2 is easy to get most of their content the same, but they do have storylines based on certain aspects of creation which each race has at least 3 different variants of.  If I remember right, Archeage is the same, too.

 

The Final Fantasy's, though, are set up so that you can do everything on one character.  So it is natural for you to be able to do everything in one go.  Tera's storyline is extremely linear and most oriental MMORPGs can be following its pattern.

 

Those are just the big ones I can think of off hand.

 

And I LIKE having all that separate content, because it actually rewards me to be an altoholic.  SWtOR feeds that even more because completing a class's original storyline allows you to cast that class's self-buff even on the other classes.  In addition, maxing out the companions' affections helped buff up the companions of your other characters.

 

Which is why I said "MMOs I've played".

 

So, you're saying that in these games you choose a faction or class and cannot play with any other faction or class? Never played WoW, didn't know you spent the game completely seperated from any other faction like City of originally did it. From your description, SwtOR is the exact opposite it was in beta and early game, as you only shared the tutorial zones with one other class and the rest, aside from some story missions tailored to your class here and there, shared zones and missions with every other class. Though, to me, the phrase "can have you go through the original content and never share content that another class can have" implies player choice. So if I CAN do what you say, that implies I CAN also do shared content. I see many similar qualifiers in your post that implies choice.

 

Here's the bottom line on it all. I don't care what any other game does. I've run a tabletop FRPG since the late 70's, elves in my game bear no resemblance to elves in WoW. If I go to play an elf in WoW, I'm playing an elf as defined by the creators of the game, in a world defined by the creators of the game for a faction defined by the creators of the game. I cannot create my own backstory unless it fits within the lore of WoW. In SWtOR, I'm a star wars character in the star wars universe. I can't account for my jedi powers being due to being bathed in the radiation of a damaged hyperdrive or anything of the like. I am inside a story with very close boundaries.

 

In City of, I can play whatever I like. As a creative person, I had an entire line of comic book heroes I created as a kid. I've recreated many that I remember in CoH. While City has its own lore, the boundaries within which I can operate are on the horizon. I can come from a secret city at the center of the earth, or a hidden land in the South American jungles or an undiscovered island in the Pacific even though none of these things appear in City of lore because none of these things is contradicted by City of lore. City of Heroes is about choices, about building the character you want. The only limit is the AT structure. For a game that is made to allow you to build the hero you want to try to restrict that by putting certain ATs redside only is ridiculous. Starting in the Rogue Islands, which is a very specific setting, completely destroys the ability to create the story you want. With no return on that restriction. City of Villains forces you into a specific mold, especially at the start. You cannot start as a hero in CoV. You can try to twist and justify your actions to be heroic, but if you actually read the text and follow the storylines you are at best a rogue. And what is the payoff for that restriction?

[Charistoph]

So, you're saying that in these games you choose a faction or class and cannot play with any other faction or class? Never played WoW, didn't know you spent the game completely seperated from any other faction like City of originally did it. From your description, SwtOR is the exact opposite it was in beta and early game, as you only shared the tutorial zones with one other class and the rest, aside from some story missions tailored to your class here and there, shared zones and missions with every other class. Though, to me, the phrase "can have you go through the original content and never share content that another class can have" implies player choice. So if I CAN do what you say, that implies I CAN also do shared content. I see many similar qualifiers in your post that implies choice.

 

Well, aside from some content which is specifically set aside for the character (like some of WoW's Legion Order Hall content, or SW:tOR's class content), I don't know of any case where you were limited to only your class to do content.  Factions are a different story, but it usually requires the game to actually have distinct factions in the first place.  Most MMORPGs don't even have distinct factions, it's just players and their NPC support vs everything else.

 

In WoW, you can only play with the other faction in very rare circumstances.  You may be doing the same content as a person from the other faction in places like Southern Stranglethorn or Mount Hyjal, but you can't join up with them to complete it or do any of the dungeons.  Vanilla WoW had about a third of the zones being shared content, especially in the higher levels where one prepares to Raid (the Raids need to be accessible to everyone, right?), with a couple zones which provided different content from other sides (e.g. Hilsbrad Foothills with Southshore and Tarren Mill) while the first half of the game is under faction only content.  BfA's content definitely keeps it different between the factions (outside dungeons and raids), with each faction doing only its own thing in each zone till 8.2's content.  The interesting difference is in the Battle of Dazar'alor, which has you playing your faction for the first 2/3rds, then you do a "recap of what happened to the other side", and finish the other third as a race from the other faction fighting who you were originally supporting.  Conceptually it is refreshing.  It would be like doing a Task Force, but after you take out Recluse, you become a Villainous alt for the last third of the Task Force to take down Statesman, sort of (Rogue kind of killed making it truly interesting).

 

In SW:tOR, not in the original content (my altoholism insists I complete all the original classes before moving any past Corellia).  From what I understand, you can join another class in their story areas, but aside from combat, you're just an observer, and stuck with the options they choose.  Yes, it is optional to do it without engaging in "overworld" missions, but that's about a third of the content on the planet that is dedicated, and you usually have to complete it to move on (I think, I've never actually tried NOT doing it), and the rest can be repetitive or obnoxious at times (think of the same newspaper missions all the time).  I'm not sure of the rest of it, but a lot seems to be different perspectives of the same content in the rest of its expansions.

 

In City of, I can play whatever I like. As a creative person, I had an entire line of comic book heroes I created as a kid. I've recreated many that I remember in CoH. While City has its own lore, the boundaries within which I can operate are on the horizon. I can come from a secret city at the center of the earth, or a hidden land in the South American jungles or an undiscovered island in the Pacific even though none of these things appear in City of lore because none of these things is contradicted by City of lore. City of Heroes is about choices, about building the character you want. The only limit is the AT structure. For a game that is made to allow you to build the hero you want to try to restrict that by putting certain ATs redside only is ridiculous. Starting in the Rogue Islands, which is a very specific setting, completely destroys the ability to create the story you want. With no return on that restriction. City of Villains forces you into a specific mold, especially at the start. You cannot start as a hero in CoV. You can try to twist and justify your actions to be heroic, but if you actually read the text and follow the storylines you are at best a rogue. And what is the payoff for that restriction?

 

Wow, you believe you are THAT limited by the Rogue Isles arcs? 

 

My lead villain on NCServers was a Dark/Fire Brute that was a frankenstein created through the sciences of Vahzilock and the 5th Column, and then put down by a hero when the lab was raided and stuck in the Zig.  There he learned to be at least a little smart and how to get things to work for him, and then Arachnos busted him out to be in the Isles.

 

My villain here is an resident of the outer core of the planet who rode a volcano's ejection and rode it to the surface.  He's an Earth/Fire Dominator runt looking to take control of the surface enough to lead an army to take control of his old lands, if he doesn't find the surface interesting enough.  Oddly enough, original concept was from a NCServer Stone/Fire Tanker I made early on.

 

I just made a Demons/Time Mastermind for Praetoria who's battle cry is, "Multiverse theory is a b****!".  Guess what?  He's from ANOTHER world who tried to travel through time and ended up in Praetoria, just like Dragonball Z Trunks ended up in a different universe when he traveled back in time.  The reference is to the Abridged series on YouTube during the Android/Cell Sagas.

 

Just as the Hero side, you're only constrained by your imagination and how they get inserted in to Paragon City, the Rogue Isles, or Praetoria.

[jubakumbi]

Just as the Hero side, you're only constrained by your imagination and how they get inserted in to Paragon City, the Rogue Isles, or Praetoria.

 

That's all great and everything.

 

But if I can only play some ATs on one side, that is restrictive.

In other MMOs where there are factions, the same classes exist - even in SWTOR, be they slighty changed.

 

If ATs get split, then is lowers the variables we can use to create characters on BOTH sides.

 

So there is no sae reason to force the classes to each side beyond 'just because someone likes it' - no ROI in terms of more players, etc, IMO.

As discussed, it would just force people to immediately run to the Gull to switch.

 

And, you sent so far as to put down anothers creativity, which is just BS.

 

All of these restictions were built out the premise of getting people to log in more hours and spend more money on the game, coupled with the inhernet whining of player bases that cannot keep up with change and fear it.

Without the retail outlet around the game, they serve no purpose other than to restict creativity.

[Charistoph]

But if I can only play some ATs on one side, that is restrictive.

In other MMOs where there are factions, the same classes exist - even in SWTOR, be they slighty changed.

 

If ATs get split, then is lowers the variables we can use to create characters on BOTH sides.

 

So there is no sae reason to force the classes to each side beyond 'just because someone likes it' - no ROI in terms of more players, etc, IMO.

As discussed, it would just force people to immediately run to the Gull to switch.

 

Well, it's a good thing that hasn't been a thing since before the Gull existed, right? 

 

WoW had two classes that were faction-specific at launch.  With the first expansion, they allowed the new races to play those classes on the opposite side of their traditional faction, and have added more since, including allowing some original races to use them as well.

 

And, you sent so far as to put down anothers creativity, which is just BS.

 

False.  They put down their own as they were limiting themselves, not me.  All I did was point out that they could apply the same imagination that they used on their Hero Side to their Villain or Praetorian side.

 

All of these restictions were built out the premise of getting people to log in more hours and spend more money on the game, coupled with the inhernet whining of player bases that cannot keep up with change and fear it.

Without the retail outlet around the game, they serve no purpose other than to restict creativity.

 

Not exactly.  A lot of restrictions like faction-specific classes/ATs were done for lore reasons at time of launch, not as the cold-hearted, money-grubbing aspect you automatically apply.  In fact, spreading them out was far more money-grubbing than restricting them.  In WoW, the Horde population sky rocketed with the introduction of the Blood Elves, and a significant portion of them were the otherwise-faction restricted Paladins.

[_NOPE_]

Just a reminder of the Code of Conduct, I feel for some reason that it's necessary to have a reminder from time to time:

 

Avoid the negative

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•     If you see another user asking for help and have the ability to help them, then please do so. Look out for each other.
  
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[jubakumbi]

Not exactly.  A lot of restrictions like faction-specific classes/ATs were done for lore reasons at time of launch, not as the cold-hearted, money-grubbing aspect you automatically apply.  In fact, spreading them out was far more money-grubbing than restricting them.  In WoW, the Horde population sky rocketed with the introduction of the Blood Elves, and a significant portion of them were the otherwise-faction restricted Paladins.

 

You seem to want now to spare over minutae. Have fun with that, I am not into rules-lawyers.

I don't care _when_ things were added to _which_ MMO, we were not in the board room, so we can (mostly) only guess at _why_ it happened.

 

Who said cold-hearted? It was, and is for many MMOs, a valid biz strategy.

Working that biz strategy into the Lore just makes good sense.

Not evil, not bad, just good money making.

I do NOT begrudge game companies making money like a lot of gamers do, I know they have bills to pay.

In the case of City of Vilians, that idea fell flat in the marketplace, IIRC.

 

IMO, you _did_ put down Dr.'s creativity with your words, no matter if you meant to or not, that is what I infer from your langauage and tone.

You implied he was potentially not 'creative enough' to get around these restircts while he was simply saying they would force him to do so, IMO.

Whatever.

 

IMO, there is no ROI in 'going backwards' to more restictions, it will not _increase_ anything other than player frustration.

 

If anyone has the desire to go backwards, the code is out there, alter it, build a server, have fun.

 

I will continue to look forward, not backwards, and fight tooth and nail against anything I see as restricting creativity, just as I do in RL.

For the most part, in my world, nostalgia is a death sentence for creativity and moving forward, creating totally unnessasary issues.

 

And to Phil, if someone thinks I am a big meany, they can do whatever they like, the Hall Monitors and Busy Bodies are to be ignored IMO, they are welcome to ignore this 'mean old poster' that speaks bluntly and without regard for 'feelings'.

If this board, running around a game in this grey area, cannot even handle my langauge and tone, go ahead and ban me now.

 

I am blunt and that will not change.

:)

[Dr. Gemini]

Wow, you believe you are THAT limited by the Rogue Isles arcs? 

 

My lead villain on NCServers was a Dark/Fire Brute that was a frankenstein created through the sciences of Vahzilock and the 5th Column, and then put down by a hero when the lab was raided and stuck in the Zig.  There he learned to be at least a little smart and how to get things to work for him, and then Arachnos busted him out to be in the Isles.

 

My villain here is an resident of the outer core of the planet who rode a volcano's ejection and rode it to the surface.  He's an Earth/Fire Dominator runt looking to take control of the surface enough to lead an army to take control of his old lands, if he doesn't find the surface interesting enough.  Oddly enough, original concept was from a NCServer Stone/Fire Tanker I made early on.

 

I just made a Demons/Time Mastermind for Praetoria who's battle cry is, "Multiverse theory is a b****!".  Guess what?  He's from ANOTHER world who tried to travel through time and ended up in Praetoria, just like Dragonball Z Trunks ended up in a different universe when he traveled back in time.  The reference is to the Abridged series on YouTube during the Android/Cell Sagas.

 

Just as the Hero side, you're only constrained by your imagination and how they get inserted in to Paragon City, the Rogue Isles, or Praetoria.

 

First of all, though I agree with jubakumbi in the bulk of what he had to say I don't feel that anything in this was a put down or insulting to me. However, I do feel you misunderstand my point. As I said, I have numerous heroes running around fully formed in my head. I can most certainly alter a character's origin to fit into the Rogue Isles setting, or Praetoria for that matter. That's the point. Alter. There are several hero concepts I have that require villain ATs to come close to their powersets. I'd have to completely change who they are supposed to be in order to have them even do any of the early missions. Blueside, I don't have to alter anything. Its not about what CAN be done. Its about WHY should it have to be done. What is the payoff for having those ATs only available redside? What do I gain as a player? There is no story, no lore, nothing that makes any sense to tie them only to one side.

[Mr. Vee]

I generally prefer red side but with null now switching alignment on the fly I see no reason to stay on one side. I switch from vig to rougue and back depending on what I'm wanting to run. The only reason to stay pure hero or villain back in the day was for h/v merits but with alignment mishes all rewarding the same merits now that's gone too. It's made accolade powers significantly easier with grabbing demonic and high pain on red, Atlas on blue. No more nem tanks or illusion pets for me tyvm. Of course I suppose if you're one of those character concept types...

[khy]

Ultimately there's one important thing to remember :

 

[Skele101]

I generally prefer red side but with null now switching alignment on the fly I see no reason to stay on one side. I switch from vig to rougue and back depending on what I'm wanting to run. The only reason to stay pure hero or villain back in the day was for h/v merits but with alignment mishes all rewarding the same merits now that's gone too. It's made accolade powers significantly easier with grabbing demonic and high pain on red, Atlas on blue. No more nem tanks or illusion pets for me tyvm. Of course I suppose if you're one of those character concept types...

 

This is what I do to, especially as a badge hunter.

[Charistoph]

You seem to want now to spare over minutae. Have fun with that, I am not into rules-lawyers.

I don't care _when_ things were added to _which_ MMO, we were not in the board room, so we can (mostly) only guess at _why_ it happened.

 

Considering that people are complaining about issues that weren't around for years before the NCServers went down and are not an issue here, who is sparring over minutiae?

 

IMO, you _did_ put down Dr.'s creativity with your words, no matter if you meant to or not, that is what I infer from your langauage and tone.

You implied he was potentially not 'creative enough' to get around these restircts while he was simply saying they would force him to do so, IMO.

Whatever.

 

That's, like, your opinion man.  Even worse, the "tone" I present is all in your imagination.  Remember that "cold-hearted" line?  People often insert what they want to perceive in to text, especially when it comes to emotional tones.  It's also rather evident you didn't bother to read what I was responding to in order to understand it.  Dr. Gemini is the one who claimed the lack of ability, not me.  I was trying to be helpful in seeing that they could do it.

 

First of all, though I agree with jubakumbi in the bulk of what he had to say I don't feel that anything in this was a put down or insulting to me. However, I do feel you misunderstand my point. As I said, I have numerous heroes running around fully formed in my head. I can most certainly alter a character's origin to fit into the Rogue Isles setting, or Praetoria for that matter. That's the point. Alter. There are several hero concepts I have that require villain ATs to come close to their powersets. I'd have to completely change who they are supposed to be in order to have them even do any of the early missions. Blueside, I don't have to alter anything. Its not about what CAN be done. Its about WHY should it have to be done. What is the payoff for having those ATs only available redside? What do I gain as a player? There is no story, no lore, nothing that makes any sense to tie them only to one side.

 

Honestly, I think at this point you're choosing to make it more difficult than it needs to be.  Everybody's story will be altered by their interactions when they hit Paragon City/Rogue Isles/Praetoria, because experiences will have an affect and alter you.  The different Multiverse stories from DC and Marvel are replete with such concepts, especially the "What if?s".  Just by making the choice to accept a mission will have an altering affect on the character, one way or another.

 

Admittedly, they are YOUR characters and you can choose to do with them as you wish.  If you don't find the Isles or Praetoria interesting in the first place, it is difficult to find a reason for the characters to be affected by them in the first place.

[jubakumbi]

IMO...

That's, like, your opinion man.

 

Yeah, and? I said it was my Opinion.

All of we post here is our interpretation of the facts we have been presented - our opinions based on our own personal delusions.

Duh.

 

It is also my opinion that the current class availability in what is called i25 is great, I don't want it changed, and I don't want people who think they know how I should have fun to dictate code restrictions on servers.

 

Since anyone can now run a server, they can grab the code and build whatever they like.

If there are enough restriction-lovers, then they will come and play.

 

I realize there are those who clamour for things to be 'just like they were at live sunset'.

They have what they need to build what they want, they are welcome to to so.

That level of nostalgia, IMO, is not for me.

[Charistoph]

IMO...

That's, like, your opinion man.

 

Yeah, and? I said it was my Opinion.

All of we post here is our interpretation of the facts we have been presented - our opinions based on our own personal delusions.

Duh.

 

The point was that you are doing exactly what you claim I am doing, lambasting someone on a perception.  Even worse was that you ignored facts to jump to that opinion.

 

Duh.

 

It is also my opinion that the current class availability in what is called i25 is great, I don't want it changed, and I don't want people who think they know how I should have fun to dictate code restrictions on servers.

 

Since anyone can now run a server, they can grab the code and build whatever they like.

If there are enough restriction-lovers, then they will come and play.

 

I realize there are those who clamour for things to be 'just like they were at live sunset'.

They have what they need to build what they want, they are welcome to to so.

That level of nostalgia, IMO, is not for me.

 

And I don't see a lot of advocates for such a reversion posting in this thread.  In fact, I see people complaining about how it was as if it was reverted and hadn't gone through those changes.  It's ignoring facts in favor of an unwarranted emotional response.

 

I like Brutes, and one of my Brutes will be a Hero once he finishes his Praetorian run (gotta catch the storyline fresh).

 

There are many of these things which are mixed in the comicland with Hulk being a heroic Brute (most of the time), and Solomon Grundy being a Tank.  The number of Scrappers and Blasters which are Villains are incredible, to say nothing of Sentinels.

[RagabashMoon]

My avatar on these forums is Foxy Raccoon, she's a rogue, mostly as she's a very sneaky thief (She's inspired by a song called Tough Titty Cupcakes by Tricky Pixie "From my sneaky bandit face to my hot bushy tail I'm tough mean and crafty Sharp of tooth and nail Don't mess with me Keep yer kitties outta sight Cuz I'm lurkin' by day And I rule the night") and so sneaking into Paragon City is just what she'd do.

[Zerethon]

Make your char, go to pocket D, talk to the gull, swap to Rogue or Vigilante

 

Rogue is a "Villain" and can do villain contact missions and the like, as well as the patron power arcs at 38+ but can't do heroside story arcs. But you can join in on Hero missions, TF's, etc.

 

Vigilante is the same thing, but heroside, you can do villain SF's and everything, but you can't do villain story missions or anything.

 

All of my chars are either Rogue or Vigi for that reason, heroside is more popular, but i greatly enjoy playing redside content and strike forces (LRSF is still an absolute blast)