Time to give scrappers super strength

[Without_Pause]

17 minutes ago, venetiasilver said:

Meanwhile Tankers getting Super Reflexes and being near immortal.

Agreed. I got a Dark/sr Scrapper at T3 level. My Claws/sr is close to that. I used RoP to level, but if I could think of a good alt build, I might do a post T4 rebuild without it. The only thing holding me back from a SR Tanker is I have a Shield/fire at near T3 already. Not only was it the only build so far to go through MJ's arc at +2x8 as a fresh Level 50, it did so with a single fluke death. Many missions I simply didn't look at my health bar. I did go Savage/sr Brute though. Add in my Ice/sr Sent and I'm on pace to have the same number of SRs at 50 as EAs. Tankers already get Shield, SR, Stone, and Invul. There's nothing game breaking about adding EA to that list. 

[venetiasilver]

7 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

Agreed. I got a Dark/sr Scrapper at T3 level. My Claws/sr is close to that. I used RoP to level, but if I could think of a good alt build, I might do a post T4 rebuild without it. The only thing holding me back from a SR Tanker is I have a Shield/fire at near T3 already. Not only was it the only build so far to go through MJ's arc at +2x8 as a fresh Level 50, it did so with a single fluke death. Many missions I simply didn't look at my health bar. I did go Savage/sr Brute though. Add in my Ice/sr Sent and I'm on pace to have the same number of SRs at 50 as EAs. Tankers already get Shield, SR, Stone, and Invul. There's nothing game breaking about adding EA to that list. 

Overall I think the Super Strength porting problem will lead to the same results, that being using everything outside of Super Strength aside from Foot Stomp and KO Blow. (The T1/T3 are frequently not slotted or picked in the attack chains) Punch, Epic Attack, one of the boxing powers, cross punch. 
I think it needs to be fixed from the ground up and then ported to Scrappers as the "New Super Strength"

[Without_Pause]

32 minutes ago, venetiasilver said:

Overall I think the Super Strength porting problem will lead to the same results, that being using everything outside of Super Strength aside from Foot Stomp and KO Blow. (The T1/T3 are frequently not slotted or picked in the attack chains) Punch, Epic Attack, one of the boxing powers, cross punch. 
I think it needs to be fixed from the ground up and then ported to Scrappers as the "New Super Strength"

The issue with Foot Stomp is it's radius. Spin has better DPA and recharges faster. Its radius is 8 versus 15 for Foot Stomp. While KO Blow has better DPA then Focus, it recharges in 20 seconds versus 8 for Focus. Also, FU can stack for 60% damage. Rage can stack for 160% although with the obvious downside. 

[BrandX]

22 hours ago, venetiasilver said:

And I think Caitlin Fairchild is in the Scrapper territory.

 

Agreed!  And I love Gen-13! ❤️ 

[Warshades]

I think rage for scrappes would need a bit of a nerf. The extreme version of SS on scrappers is a proc bomb build combo of ss/rad. Have a tanker version of this and nothing except bosses survive after stomp, GZ, rad therapy, and psi tornado which is up every mob. Proc out KO blow and dominate and it destroys the leftover bosses with rage crash hardly being noticeable. Considering scrappers higher dmg modifier and crits, this would be a walking nuke.

[venetiasilver]

On 10/27/2024 at 8:50 AM, Warshades said:

I think rage for scrappes would need a bit of a nerf. The extreme version of SS on scrappers is a proc bomb build combo of ss/rad. Have a tanker version of this and nothing except bosses survive after stomp, GZ, rad therapy, and psi tornado which is up every mob. Proc out KO blow and dominate and it destroys the leftover bosses with rage crash hardly being noticeable. Considering scrappers higher dmg modifier and crits, this would be a walking nuke.

I think it'd be fine to have Rage as is but with taking more damage for it.
-25% Resist, -11.25% Defense during the duration. A quarter less survivability.
 

[Warshades]

5 hours ago, venetiasilver said:

I think it'd be fine to have Rage as is but with taking more damage for it.
-25% Resist, -11.25% Defense during the duration. A quarter less survivability.

 

I think the bigger issue is the amount of damage it would be able to deal, not whether it's survivable or not. Foot stomp is also very good soft control because of the knockdown which prevents mobs from attacking. So even with -25% resist, it wouldn't really be a quarter less survivability. Even then, the -25% resist is also easily countered by using 2 orange insps. I'm all for scrappers getting SS, but I do feel that rage would need to go down to 40-50% damage buff at the most compared to it's current 80% for scrappers. I also wouldn't mind a redesign as @Without_Pause said. Aside from stomp, KO blow, rage, and whatever T1/2 power you pick, nothing else is worth picking up. Cross punch is superior to haymaker and hurl boulder is pretty bad compared to the faster animating single target range attacks in epic pools. Hand clap is minimum use at best with armors that can layer and stack stuns. The entire set is built around picking up rage as a power. It would be interesting (if it's possible) to have alternative damage numbers applied to SS powers if your build didn't pick up rage as a power, that would allow more flexibility in building SS combos without rage crash. This has also been done before (I think for sentinel SR?), but they could offer an alternative "build up" like power as a choice that locks you out of rage if you choose it instead.

[PeregrineFalcon]

For the Scrapper version of Super Strength they should look at the damage of the various attacks, modify some of them to put them into similar range as other Scrapper primaries, and then replace Rage (just for the Scrapper version) with Build Up.

 

Problem solved.

[bAss_ackwards]

This is a personal observation, but Rage is what makes Super Strength feel like it is Super Strength. If you "cottage rule" it into something else, it will feel like the set is missing something.

 

It's one of the reasons why I don't particularly care for Dark Melee on Stalkers. Yes they all need to have Build Up as part of their kit, but to me I just don't feel like the set is complete. On my Scrapper practically have perma on Soul Drain (3 second gap), so the uptime with with Rage doesn't really make it unique. Soul Drain doesn't have any crash of any sort, but the low end is also lower than a regular Build Up with just 1 target. However, it does also make up for a higher cap, at 150% Damage and 30% ToHit when you're max mob farming.

[Gobbledygook]

Can we get it for Scrapperd and Stalkers?

[Stormwalker]

1 hour ago, Gobbledygook said:

Can we get it for Scrapperd and Stalkers?

 

I'm pretty sure there are more recent threads on this subject than this one 😛 (actually, I know there are, because I was in the thick of this argument just a few weeks ago).

 

I've participated in this argument too many times already; I've listed my examples of characters from comics that I think are Super Strength scrappers (some of them being ones already listed in this thread, like Rogue), I've given my arguments for why the set should be available to scrappers, and I've made my counter-arguments against the usual arguments that people make against it.  Been there, done that, sick of arguing about it.  I've said that I don't care if Scrappers don't get Rage as long as the set is balanced in such a way that it isn't underpowered without it.  Having said all of those things, there's not much more on the subject for me to say.  My opinions on the subject are well documented.

 

Suffice to say, I am in favor of Scrappers getting it.   I think my current Bubblegum Crisis-inspired Inv/SS Tanker ought to be a Scrapper, but I couldn't make her a Scrapper so she's a Tanker.  So... I'm just going to add my "Yes, please," to this and leave it at that, and let others do the arguing this time around.

[Erratic1]

9 hours ago, Stormwalker said:

I've participated in this argument too many times already; I've listed my examples of characters from comics that I think are Super Strength scrappers (some of them being ones already listed in this thread, like Rogue),

 

Rogue goes toe to toe with Thor and Captain Marvel. If Rogue is a scrapper the term has lost all meaning.

[Stormwalker]

22 minutes ago, Erratic1 said:

 

Rogue goes toe to toe with Thor and Captain Marvel. If Rogue is a scrapper the term has lost all meaning.

 

As I have said before, I define the AT's by narrative role (which is what the archetypes' inherent powers are intended to represent), not by capabilities.  Rogue acts like a Scrapper.  She's an aggressive fighter (thus not a Tanker), and she doesn't rely on building anger to fuel her might (thus not a Brute).  Specifically, the role she filled is that of a blitz attacker.  That's a Scrapper's job.

 

Also, just to point out... Iron Man is a Sentinel and he goes toe to toe with everyone.  There is more to AT differences than your resist caps.

 

Also, as I already said, I'm not getting drawn into this argument again.  I've been 'round and 'round on all these points enough times already.  I've said what I have to say.  So I won't be replying to any further comment on this.

Edited Friday at 05:59 PM by Stormwalker

[Erratic1]

3 minutes ago, Stormwalker said:

As I have said before, I define the AT's by narrative role (which is what the archetypes' inherent powers are intended to represent), not by capabilities.  Rogue acts like a Scrapper.  She's an aggressive fighter (thus not a Tanker), and she doesn't rely on building anger to fuel her might (thus not a Brute).

 

Naritively she killed Thor (What If). Narratively she duplicates others poweres. To the extent she fights, it is most often one-on-one as a powerhouse. Toi the extent she scraps, it's like Superman being in a red sun situation--a temporary diversion from what is normal.

[Story Archer]

On 10/27/2024 at 7:50 AM, Warshades said:

I think rage for scrappes would need a bit of a nerf. The extreme version of SS on scrappers is a proc bomb build combo of ss/rad. Have a tanker version of this and nothing except bosses survive after stomp, GZ, rad therapy, and psi tornado which is up every mob. Proc out KO blow and dominate and it destroys the leftover bosses with rage crash hardly being noticeable. Considering scrappers higher dmg modifier and crits, this would be a walking nuke.

 

...plus having the added benefit of stacking Holds, just in case. It really is an amazing Tanker build. I remember how proud I was for having figured out all of the little synergies... and then I turned around and everybody else had figured out the exact same thing.