Time to give scrappers super strength

[HelenCarnate]

With brutes and tanks getting regen and spines I think it is tome to give Super Strength to scrappers. You of course would have to decrease the damage buff on rage or it woud be stupidly OP. I would cut it in half to 40% or maybe go safe and cut it to 25%. Then itcould be increased if the set is under performing as we tend to like buffs more than nerfs.

[Murcielago]

I think this would also be a good time to revamp the set entirely. SS blows outside of Rage and Footstomp.

[HelenCarnate]

They did update the animations that look a bit better for some. Ko blow still is not that great. I would much rather have it like it is. By adding damage to the other tiers that would likely result in nerfs to the 2 powers that make the set what it is.

[Galactiman]

Rage doesn't even need to be nerfed. A SS Scrapper with 100% from damage enhancements and 80% from Rage is equivalent to a Brute with the same enhancements and Rage, plus a little under 3/4ths of a Fury bar. How is that OP?

[HelenCarnate]

Rage doesn't even need to be nerfed. A SS Scrapper with 100% from damage enhancements and 80% from Rage is equivalent to a Brute with the same enhancements and Rage, plus a little under 3/4ths of a Fury bar. How is that OP?

 

That is far from true and would be magnified with double Rage (which is common).

 

After getting home and doing some number crunching I have changed my mind and believe that +50% for rage would be perfect.

 

Basic low damage attack for a brute is 41.71 at lvl 50 and the same basic low damage attack on a scrapper starts at 68.82.  The fury base used to compare the 2 sets is 65% meaning that with 3 level 50 damage IOs and 65% fury, scrappers and brutes put out roughly the same damage outside of crits. 

 

 

So single stacked Rage with 65% fury and we are looking at....

 

Brute: 100% base + 80% rage + 100% slotting + 130% fury for a total of 410% x 41.71 = 171

Scrapper: 100% base + 50% rage + 100% slotting for a total of 250% x 68.82 = 172

 

Double stacked rage with 65% fury and we are looking at....

Brute 100% base +160% rage + 100% slotting +130% fury for a total of 490% x 41.71 = 204.4

Scrapper 100% base +100% rage + 100% slotting for a total of 300% x 68.82 = 206.46

 

50% would ensure they push out roughly the same damage as similar brutes with even higher damage potential because of crits.

 

[Rylas]

Is this also an issue of thematic fit? Super Strength doesn't exactly sound like something scrappy.

 

I mean, if that's even something to really consider at this point. I truly don't know.

[Galactiman]

Rage doesn't even need to be nerfed. A SS Scrapper with 100% from damage enhancements and 80% from Rage is equivalent to a Brute with the same enhancements and Rage, plus a little under 3/4ths of a Fury bar. How is that OP?

 

That is far from true and would be magnified with double Rage (which is common).

 

After getting home and doing some number crunching I have changed my mind and believe that +50% for rage would be perfect.

 

Basic low damage attack for a brute is 41.71 at lvl 50 and the same basic low damage attack on a scrapper starts at 68.82.  The fury base used to compare the 2 sets is 65% meaning that with 3 level 50 damage IOs and 65% fury, scrappers and brutes put out roughly the same damage outside of crits. 

 

 

So single stacked Rage with 65% fury and we are looking at....

 

Brute: 100% base + 80% rage + 100% slotting + 130% fury for a total of 410% x 41.71 = 171

Scrapper: 100% base + 50% rage + 100% slotting for a total of 250% x 68.82 = 172

 

Double stacked rage with 65% fury and we are looking at....

Brute 100% base +160% rage + 100% slotting +130% fury for a total of 490% x 41.71 = 204.4

Scrapper 100% base +100% rage + 100% slotting for a total of 300% x 68.82 = 206.46

 

50% would ensure they push out roughly the same damage as similar brutes with even higher damage potential because of crits.

 

Those base damage numbers don't look right. Are those from the same attack in the same powerset? You shouldn't need numbers from a specific attack anyway. You can use 0.8 for Brutes and 1.2 for Scrappers. If you do that then 80% Rage looks fine.

[HelenCarnate]

Is this also an issue of thematic fit? Super Strength doesn't exactly sound like something scrappy.

 

I mean, if that's even something to really consider at this point. I truly don't know.

 

And giant Titan weapons are not very scrappy either.  The quick strikes of Katana do not feel very brutish either yet they both exist.

[HelenCarnate]

Edit to remove long rant that is apparently wrong because I didn't double check my Pines settings and had the average damage checked instead of minimum damage so it showed damage including average crits as well.  Will run the numbers again after I wake up to see what if any changes would be needed for a port. Thank you Galacticman for noticing the error.

[Galactiman]

Scrapper Damage 68.82

 

Where did you get these numbers? I'm seeing 62.56 in game.

0.8(62.56/1.2) = 41.71

1.2(41.71/0.8) = 62.56

[Galactiman]

1.2/0.8 = 1.5

 

So a Brute needs 50% more damage buffs than a Scrapper to reach the same numbers.

 

If we assume a SS Scrapper would have:

100 base + 100 from enhancements + 80 from Rage

 

A Brute would need:

280*1.5 = 420 to match the Scrapper.

 

420-280 = 140 = 70 Fury.

 

With stacked Rage it's:

360*1.5 = 540

540-360 = 180 = 90 Fury.

 

Maybe the stacked Rage scenario is a little too high, but to me that's more of an issue of stacked Rage being too powerful anyway. It never should have been allowed in the first place and the devs just kind of ignored it. Personally, I say give SS to Scrappers as is and just nerf Rage to not stack. It could be changed to overwrite, which would eliminate the crash and that can be one's reward for reaching the requisite recharge.

[Rokkeb]

I'd rather have PomPoms of doom. SS is not as much fun except for the end power IMO.

[HelenCarnate]

Scrapper Damage 68.82

 

Where did you get these numbers? I'm seeing 62.56 in game.

0.8(62.56/1.2) = 41.71

1.2(41.71/0.8) = 62.56

 

Yup, you are right and I was wrong.  I updated the post.  When I downloaded Pines I did not double check the settings and the default was for average damage (which calculates crits and procs) instead of the minimum damage so my numbers I was starting with were wrong.  80% works fine for single stacked rage but double would still cause issues.  The heavy hitter KO Blow for example does around 728 accounting for damage slotting, double rage and fury.  Scrappers in the same situation (and not having to build fury) would end up hitting for around 802 with a chance to crit.  The Brute would have to get another roughly 50% damage in order to break even.

 

Considering the SCORE people are not developers I would not want them to have to go through a giant balancing act trying to make major tweaks to the powers just for the sake of a port.  Other SS Brutes are going to hate me but I could actually get behind the idea of having a 2nd rage just override and refresh the timer preventing a crash.  That would be something if it is easy to put in I would find acceptable as a fair trade off.

[Gobbledygook]

Necropost

[venetiasilver]

On 5/31/2024 at 5:08 PM, Gobbledygook said:

Necropost

We have super strength its called Street Justice.

[Gobbledygook]

7 minutes ago, venetiasilver said:

We have super strength its called Street Justice.

No, we don't. 

It's called Street Justice, not Super Strength.

Super Strength has Footstomp, Street Justice has a combo system.

[bAss_ackwards]

Really, they should just give Scrappers everything. 😤

[WanderingAries]

When thinking about it from the perspective of differentiating ATs, I think that a Brute is what was intended as a "more strength" variant and perhaps why it wasn't done.

[bAss_ackwards]

That flew out the window the moment Scrappers got Titan Weapons. One of those weapons is like 500lbs

 

💪😆

[Without_Pause]

Just listen to some of the Stalker sets and try to figure out how they sneak up on anyone. Rational reasoning for certain sets went out some time ago. 

[Gobbledigook]

Maybe if Super Strength ever gets reworked. I doubt they will get it until then for the same reasons Tankers do not get Energy Aura.

[Without_Pause]

3 hours ago, Gobbledigook said:

Maybe if Super Strength ever gets reworked. I doubt they will get it until then for the same reasons Tankers do not get Energy Aura.

I've played EA to 50 on the four ATs who get it. I mostly soloed it on three of them. I do not get why EA isn't ported to Tankers. The argument should have ended once people accept Tankers already have Stone, and I'm not even saying Stone is better. It is absolutely comparable in terms of surviving any map. My guess is Invul compares rather well to it. People seem to forget there are other armors more survivable than EA and porting it to Tankers isn't going to change that. 

[venetiasilver]

17 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

I've played EA to 50 on the four ATs who get it. I mostly soloed it on three of them. I do not get why EA isn't ported to Tankers. The argument should have ended once people accept Tankers already have Stone, and I'm not even saying Stone is better. It is absolutely comparable in terms of surviving any map. My guess is Invul compares rather well to it. People seem to forget there are other armors more survivable than EA and porting it to Tankers isn't going to change that. 

Meanwhile Tankers getting Super Reflexes and being near immortal.

[BrandX]

On 5/13/2019 at 8:05 PM, Rylas said:

Is this also an issue of thematic fit? Super Strength doesn't exactly sound like something scrappy.

 

I mean, if that's even something to really consider at this point. I truly don't know.

 

Watching X-Men 97, Rogue made Super Strength look pretty scrappy.

[venetiasilver]

4 minutes ago, BrandX said:

 

Watching X-Men 97, Rogue made Super Strength look pretty scrappy.

And I think Caitlin Fairchild is in the Scrapper territory.