Best Tank for Hami raids?

[Elmyder]

On 3/9/2020 at 8:26 AM, Sura said:

What level of Regen is necessary, approximately, does anyone know?  I've been working on a regen focused WIllpower tanker and it might give me some goals.

 

🙂

You will never have high enough regen on your own to stop hami from debuffing it to 0. A friend of mine has a regen brute, and even with regen set slotted for healing + vigor + rebirth radial + melee hybrid, his regen is still floored without external buffs.

 

In a league setting, this rarely matters, because enough people will hit you with regen buffs that you'll have nonzero regen for at least some of the time. And the raids go so fast that any tanker with good max hp who keeps EoEs up will most likely survive to the end even without regen.

 

But with that said, willpower is not the best set to tank hami because it has no self heal.

[Keen]

To answer the OP, I've done quite a bit of research about what would be the best Hamidon tank ever. My parameters for this would be that a good tank:

 

• should endure Hamidon + 18 mitos as long as possible,
• alone in the goo,
• without any external buffs or temporary powers,
• and only relying on EoEs and their own powers.

 

Bio Armor/Dark Melee Tanker is currently the top contender. Thanks to endurance drain and slow resistances in an auto power, it can stay stunned and not have endurance dropped to zero (hence not die). This build is currently capable of staying for almost 3 minutes taking full Hamidon + 18 mito damage until defeat.

 

Stone Armor/Dark Melee Tanker made a good run, taking second place for tanking duration alone. It lasts around 2 minutes. Best thing of this build is stun protection (34), which allows more variety in Incarnate choices. But this is quite a hard build to play with due to movement restrictions by Granite + Rooted. Teleport is a must here. The biggest issue with this build is the lack of unresistable big heal: Earth's Embrace is their version of Dull Pain, but the heal is resistable so it doesn't work against Hami. If it did, it would surpass Bio Armor in survivability. Unfortunately, Siphon Life alone isn't enough to make this build survive for long.

 

Dark Melee/Regeneration Brute makes third place. They have a serious issue with endurance recovery, and Ageless Destiny isn't able to protect them for long. They don't last more than 1 minute alone in the goo as all their endurance will be drained quickly and they will be unable to heal or use any powers.

 

Dark Armor/Dark Melee Tanker makes fourth place. They last longer than Regeneration Brutes, but they have a larger number of issues. Their endurance drain protection is in a toggle, which gets suppressed when stunned. Incarnate mez protection isn't able to protect them for more than 1 minute when solo, so Clarion + Melee Hybrid has to be stacked and this is really counterproductive. Their lack of KB protection/resistance also makes it harder to build. In a league setting however, they're as good as Regeneration Brutes.

 

Edited March 17, 2020 by Keen
Add Dark Armor

[Apparition]

I taunted Hamidon in a five person Hamidon raid on an Ice Melee/Regeneration Brute.   I definitely lasted more than one minute at a time in the goo.  About two to three minutes.  Dark Melee definitely would have been a better primary, but the original goal was to do a six person Hamidon raid with two Ice Melee/Regeneration Brutes switching off between tanking Hamidon and green mito duty, but the second Ice Melee/Regeneration Brute never showed up, so we decided to five man it instead with my being the sole Hamidon taunter.

[Keen]

5 minutes ago, Apparition said:

I taunted Hamidon in a five person Hamidon raid on an Ice Melee/Regeneration Brute.   I definitely lasted more than one minute at a time in the goo.  About two to three minutes.  Dark Melee definitely would have been a better primary, but the original goal was to do a six person Hamidon raid with two Ice Melee/Regeneration Brutes switching off between tanking Hamidon and green mito duty, but the second Ice Melee/Regeneration Brute never showed up, so we decided to five man it instead with my being the sole Hamidon taunter.

 

The reason for that might be that you weren't taking damage from all mitos, as some yellows/blues/greens were hitting your teammates instead. In a setup like that I'm also assuming that you had external buffs to help you survive longer as well. For my research I preferred to go entirely solo so to have the same parameters for every test case. Although I said Regeneration wasn't able to last longer than 1 minute solo, things can change quickly in a team or league setting.

[Menelruin]

5 hours ago, Keen said:

To answer the OP, I've done quite a bit of research about what would be the best Hamidon tank ever. My parameters for this would be that a good tank:

 

• should endure Hamidon + 18 mitos as long as possible,
• alone in the goo,
• without any external buffs or temporary powers,
• and only relying on EoEs and their own powers.

 

Bio Armor/Dark Melee Tanker is currently the top contender. Thanks to endurance drain and slow resistances in an auto power, it can stay stunned and not have endurance dropped to zero (hence not die). This build is currently capable of staying for almost 3 minutes taking full Hamidon + 18 mito damage until defeat.

 

Stone Armor/Dark Melee Tanker made a good run, taking second place for tanking duration alone. It lasts around 2 minutes. Best thing of this build is stun protection (34), which allows more variety in Incarnate choices. But this is quite a hard build to play with due to movement restrictions by Granite + Rooted. Teleport is a must here. The biggest issue with this build is the lack of unresistable big heal: Earth's Embrace is their version of Dull Pain, but the heal is resistable so it doesn't work against Hami. If it did, it would surpass Bio Armor in survivability. Unfortunately, Siphon Life alone isn't enough to make this build survive for long.

 

Dark Melee/Regeneration Brute makes third place. They have a serious issue with endurance recovery, and Ageless Destiny isn't able to protect them for long. They don't last more than 1 minute alone in the goo as all their endurance will be drained quickly and they will be unable to heal or use any powers.

 

Dark Armor/Dark Melee Tanker makes fourth place. They last longer than Regeneration Brutes, but they have a larger number of issues. Their endurance drain protection is in a toggle, which gets suppressed when stunned. Incarnate mez protection isn't able to protect them for more than 1 minute when solo, so Clarion + Melee Hybrid has to be stacked and this is really counterproductive. Their lack of KB protection/resistance also makes it harder to build. In a league setting however, they're as good as Regeneration Brutes.

 

Well damn, now I'm wondering if I need to make a Bio/Dark tanker for this project instead....

 

@Keen do you already have a build you've used for this?  Also, what keeps the Bio build alive during Hami's blasts?  I'm not seeing any heals, and I'm not sure how the "unresistable" regen boost works if regen overall is floored.  Is it just the absorb from Ablative Carapace?

Edited March 17, 2020 by Menelruin

[VV]

13 hours ago, Keen said:

To answer the OP, I've done quite a bit of research about what would be the best Hamidon tank ever. My parameters for this would be that a good tank:

First of all, great testing, thanks for that!

 

Question. What about Electric Armor? Seems like that has some good tools for dealing with the Hami issues.

Static Shield is a toggle that resists End Drain and Recovery Debuff.

Grounded is an auto that resists End Drain.

Energize is an unresistable self-heal, up to nearly 50% that does not require a tohit roll.

Power Sink is a Self+End, though it does require a tohit roll.

 

Pair it with Dark Melee, of course.

 

What am I missing here?

[Keen]

5 hours ago, VV said:

First of all, great testing, thanks for that!

 

Question. What about Electric Armor? Seems like that has some good tools for dealing with the Hami issues.

Static Shield is a toggle that resists End Drain and Recovery Debuff.

Grounded is an auto that resists End Drain.

Energize is an unresistable self-heal, up to nearly 50% that does not require a tohit roll.

Power Sink is a Self+End, though it does require a tohit roll.

 

Pair it with Dark Melee, of course.

 

What am I missing here?

When I was looking at Elec Armor I was also excited about the things you pointed out. End drain resists are off the charts (+200%) and an auto power that gives KB protection is amazing (while grounded, but we don't hover-taunt anyway).

 

The major flaw with Elec Armor is a total lack of toxic resists from primary sources. Dark, Bio, Stone and Regen all have it at some capacity, which makes it easier to cap. Elec Armor has none, and acquiring 90% toxic resists from IOs alone is very difficult. Incarnate choices for this are also limited. Barrier at 100% uptime only provides 5% toxic resists.

 

17 hours ago, Menelruin said:

@Keen do you already have a build you've used for this?  Also, what keeps the Bio build alive during Hami's blasts?  I'm not seeing any heals, and I'm not sure how the "unresistable" regen boost works if regen overall is floored.  Is it just the absorb from Ablative Carapace?

 

The build I have for this still needs adjustments so it's not ready to be shared yet. Bio does have a heal (DNA Siphon) on a long recharge (30s) that can miss. It's not nearly as good as Dark Regeneration, which is up every other Siphon Life. But what keeps the Bio Tanker alive is mostly the fact that endurance drain resistance is in an auto power, so if (more like "when") stun lands, endurance will not drop to zero and toggles will still keep running after stun wears off. There's also the Absorb powers which help against toxic damage dealt by greens, so health only gets dropped by 10% of the Special damage that Hami, yellows and blues deal.

[Keen]

Wanted to see if I could get enough toxic resists with Elec Armor, and...

 

 

 

88.2 Toxic resists would be quite enough, but the build is heavily gimped, lacking recharge and slow resists, among other things. And that amount is only considering the Tanker +Res ATO proc in Lightning Field is active. That aura is dropped when stunned, so it's not reliable at all.

 

Edited March 18, 2020 by Keen
Updated screenshot

[VV]

2 hours ago, Keen said:

Wanted to see if I could get enough toxic resists with Elec Armor, and...

 

 

 

 

88.2 Toxic resists would be quite enough, but the build is heavily gimped, lacking recharge and slow resists, among other things. And that amount is only considering the Tanker +Res ATO proc in Lightning Field is active. That aura is dropped when stunned, so it's not reliable at all.

 

This is cool! Any idea on how much the Toxic hits would do with something less gimped, like 30% toxic resist? Also, I guess this would really only be a huge problem if the need came to solo, right? In team play, the tank won't normally be taking many toxic hits, or will they? Thanks much!

[Keen]

39 minutes ago, VV said:

This is cool! Any idea on how much the Toxic hits would do with something less gimped, like 30% toxic resist? Also, I guess this would really only be a huge problem if the need came to solo, right? In team play, the tank won't normally be taking many toxic hits, or will they? Thanks much!

 

Unfortunately, they will. Toxic resists are the main thing you need in a league setting. When I first started tanking Hami on a Regen brute without toxic resists, I would die a couple of times with an EoE active while on a full league and it was very frustrating. Sometimes you can't just avoid all greens hitting you while the league works their way through all mitos, and the slower the league is (which is something you can't predict), the more toxic damage you'll be getting over time, increasing your chances of defeat. I'd strongly suggest to have it as high as possible in all situations.

[S33k3r]

On 3/17/2020 at 12:58 PM, Keen said:

To answer the OP, I've done quite a bit of research about what would be the best Hamidon tank ever. My parameters for this would be that a good tank:

 

• should endure Hamidon + 18 mitos as long as possible,
• alone in the goo,
• without any external buffs or temporary powers,
• and only relying on EoEs and their own powers.

 

Bio Armor/Dark Melee Tanker is currently the top contender. Thanks to endurance drain and slow resistances in an auto power, it can stay stunned and not have endurance dropped to zero (hence not die). This build is currently capable of staying for almost 3 minutes taking full Hamidon + 18 mito damage until defeat.

 

Stone Armor/Dark Melee Tanker made a good run, taking second place for tanking duration alone. It lasts around 2 minutes. Best thing of this build is stun protection (34), which allows more variety in Incarnate choices. But this is quite a hard build to play with due to movement restrictions by Granite + Rooted. Teleport is a must here. The biggest issue with this build is the lack of unresistable big heal: Earth's Embrace is their version of Dull Pain, but the heal is resistable so it doesn't work against Hami. If it did, it would surpass Bio Armor in survivability. Unfortunately, Siphon Life alone isn't enough to make this build survive for long.

 

Dark Melee/Regeneration Brute makes third place. They have a serious issue with endurance recovery, and Ageless Destiny isn't able to protect them for long. They don't last more than 1 minute alone in the goo as all their endurance will be drained quickly and they will be unable to heal or use any powers.

 

Dark Armor/Dark Melee Tanker makes fourth place. They last longer than Regeneration Brutes, but they have a larger number of issues. Their endurance drain protection is in a toggle, which gets suppressed when stunned. Incarnate mez protection isn't able to protect them for more than 1 minute when solo, so Clarion + Melee Hybrid has to be stacked and this is really counterproductive. Their lack of KB protection/resistance also makes it harder to build. In a league setting however, they're as good as Regeneration Brutes.

 

You wouldn't be willing to share your build for the Bio / Dark tanker, would you? 🙂

 

Thanks!

[Keen]

On 3/21/2020 at 9:10 AM, S33k3r said:

You wouldn't be willing to share your build for the Bio / Dark tanker, would you? 🙂

 

Thanks!

 

I'm still messing with that build, and I changed it quite a bit since I last ran it on Beta, so I'm not ready to share it at this time. I'm currently building it on Live, which may take me a while. I also got derailed by side projects, like a new Beam Rifle blaster -- so far my best blue mito killer yet 😅 (Fire Blast is likely the best)

 

[Menelruin]

On 3/21/2020 at 8:10 AM, S33k3r said:

You wouldn't be willing to share your build for the Bio / Dark tanker, would you? 🙂

 

Thanks!

Over in the Brute forums he posted a kickass DM/Regen build, and last night I successfully used it to tank Hami without outside support 😁

[Display Name]

On 3/8/2020 at 7:21 PM, Gobbledygook said:

 

I've only tried Regen out thrice since I4.

It's unplayable to me. I still cry about it in my sleep.

I've only ever used Regen on a Sentinel and she's nearly unstoppable!  When I described Regen to a Brute player, she was surprised by how easier it was.

[Keen]

I have a finished version of my Bio/Dark Hami Tanker.

 

Keen (Hami Tank) - Tanker (Bio Armor).mxd

 

It's a league-setting oriented build -- it doesn't have enough KB protection from IOs, so you'll need mez protection for the initial launch/alpha. Melee Hybrid + Clarion to be 100% safe against the initial stun (38 mag total). In a league setting, it doesn't require any external buffs to stay alive, neither on launch or during mito clearing.

 

cc @Menelruin @S33k3r 

[Menelruin]

2 hours ago, Keen said:

I have a finished version of my Bio/Dark Hami Tanker.

 

Keen (Hami Tank) - Tanker (Bio Armor).mxd 5.32 kB · 0 downloads

 

It's a league-setting oriented build -- it doesn't have enough KB protection from IOs, so you'll need mez protection for the initial launch/alpha. Melee Hybrid + Clarion to be 100% safe against the initial stun (38 mag total). In a league setting, it doesn't require any external buffs to stay alive, neither on launch or during mito clearing.

 

cc @Menelruin @S33k3r 

YASSSSS

[r0y]

On 3/28/2020 at 9:41 PM, Keen said:

Beam Rifle blaster -- so far my best blue mito killer yet 😅 (Fire Blast is likely the best)

(not to derail) but yeah, Fire is likely the best, but even my Beam/Bio sentinel feels like it demolishes blues pretty quick.  I've yet to do BR on a blaster (corrupter and sentinel only)...

[Moonbeam]

Hello everyone.   After some extensive observation and mids building I would like to share with you my Hami tank choice.    My empath defender moonbeem!    I have successfully tanked Hami 4 times with 1 emp supporting me.  Tonight I was mending the Hami tank and he dced so I took over tanking solo to finish half the raid alone.  Go defenders!   Best part Is I can mend insanely well or tank Hami or yellow mitos with the same build!  🙂

[VV]

On 9/30/2020 at 11:17 PM, Moonbeam said:

Hello everyone.   After some extensive observation and mids building I would like to share with you my Hami tank choice.    My empath defender moonbeem!    I have successfully tanked Hami 4 times with 1 emp supporting me.  Tonight I was mending the Hami tank and he dced so I took over tanking solo to finish half the raid alone.  Go defenders!   Best part Is I can mend insanely well or tank Hami or yellow mitos with the same build!  🙂

Mmmm... Can you post your build?

[Glowman]

Could a rad/ss tanker handle hami? I understand it wouldn't be ideal, but would love to tank hami on my main toon. 😄

[Keen]

37 minutes ago, Zer0 Hour said:

Could a rad/ss tanker handle hami? I understand it wouldn't be ideal, but would love to tank hami on my main toon. 😄

Rad Armor Tankers make excellent Hami tanks regardless of secondary. One of my most successful Hami tanks was a Rad/Katana.

[Glowman]

Any idea what a rad/ss hami build would look like? Asked some of our SG builders and they thought it would be hard to pull off. 

[Keen]

1 hour ago, Zer0 Hour said:

Any idea what a rad/ss hami build would look like? Asked some of our SG builders and they thought it would be hard to pull off. 

It's not that hard because Radiation Armor already covers a lot of what's needed to tank Hami:

• Absorb -- so your toxic resists don't need to be so high (but they will still be!)
• A click heal
• Endurance drain and recovery debuff resists
• Some slow resistance

The only thing you'd need to plug is that slow resistance, it needs to be 90-100% for an optimal experience. You can achieve that with winter IOs and the Winter's Gift unique.

 

Then, focus the rest of the build on recharge and MaxHP, ignoring defense and resistance.

 

The main issue with Rad Armor is the low Max HP, but the self heal is enough to keep HP above 50% at all times. Just make sure to use it when your HP is near that mark so you get the most of it.

 

Edited January 20, 2021 by Keen

[VV]

On 1/19/2021 at 5:22 PM, Keen said:

Rad Armor Tankers make excellent Hami tanks regardless of secondary. One of my most successful Hami tanks was a Rad/Katana.

Ah, this is good news. I just finished kitting out my Rad/Dark. Hoping to get a shot at trying it out on Hami.

[Cutter]

Is /Dark the defacto "best" melee set for this type of build, or can it be done without? Working on a Rad/EM tanker with this goal in mind. I see the comment about Rad/Kat tank above, but is that elevated by the +def attack?

Edited January 21, 2021 by Cutter