Best Tank for Hami raids?

[Menelruin]

Name says it all.  Since resists and defense go out the window, I'm assuming either Bio, WP, or Regen?  No clue if one secondary is better than another. 

[Apparition]

The best tank for Hamidon raids is not a Tanker at all, but a Regen Brute.

Edited January 7, 2020 by Apparition

[Call Me Awesome]

8 hours ago, Apparition said:

The best tank for Hamidon raids is not a Tanker at all, but a Regen Brute.

There's likely some truth to this, EoE inspirations take care of the damage input... without EoE there's no defense or resistance so no tanker primaries have an advantage over others.  I recall that on Live Hami's attacks had a -heal and -regen on them that would prevent you from being healed after a few hits, is that still the case?

 

In any case, the only advantage a tank has over a brute is a higher HP base.

 

Way back in the old days it was common for a Regen Scrapper to tank Hami (pre Regen nerf) since they could build enough Regen to handle Hami's 792 damage attack every 4 seconds.  By the time I seriously started raiding in issue 4 Regen had gotten clobbered with the Nerf bat and couldn't take it unassisted anymore.

[Corruption]

Like Apparition said, Regen Brutes are the best. We ran a 5 person Hami with one as the "tank".

 

I used to run a Dark Armor Brute on live (red side) because Dark Regeneration is not affected by the -heal,

[Menelruin]

Is the Regen powerset no stronger for Tanker than it is for Brute?

[Apparition]

1 minute ago, Menelruin said:

Is the Regen powerset no stronger for Tanker than it is for Brute?

 

Tankers don't have Regen.

[Menelruin]

I never noticed that!

[Apparition]

7 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

I never noticed that!

 

Yep.  That's why Regen Brutes make the best Hamidon tanks.  Should Tankers ever get access to Regen, that would change.

[Giocondi]

I thought WIllpower was something like Regen 2.0. Can a Willpower tanker not achieve the same levels of regen as a regen brute?

 

[Caulderone]

3 hours ago, Giocondi said:

I thought WIllpower was something like Regen 2.0. Can a Willpower tanker not achieve the same levels of regen as a regen brute?

 

Willpower needs to be in melee range for RttC to work.  I believe the Hami tanking tactic involves being at range.

[Elmyder]

Hami tanking does not involve being at range.

 

The best sets are those with high regen, but even more important than that is: 1. high max hp, 2. reliable self heals.

 

Bio tanker, dark tanker, and regen brute all perform extremely well. I don't know enough about willpower to comment on that one, but I expect it would also perform well.

[Call Me Awesome]

16 hours ago, Elmyder said:

Hami tanking does not involve being at range.

 

The best sets are those with high regen, but even more important than that is: 1. high max hp, 2. reliable self heals.

 

Bio tanker, dark tanker, and regen brute all perform extremely well. I don't know enough about willpower to comment on that one, but I expect it would also perform well.

If the Hami tank is in melee with Hami then the rest of the raid needs to be VERY careful to avoid the large AOE splash zone.  I always set up about 20' away to make sure the group on Hami's other side wouldn't be affected and I've always seen current Hami tankers set up in much the same position for the same reason.  Hami's AOE is no joke for most characters and (at least it used to) has a pretty good knockback and stun built into it.

[Elmyder]

1 hour ago, Call Me Awesome said:

If the Hami tank is in melee with Hami then the rest of the raid needs to be VERY careful to avoid the large AOE splash zone.  I always set up about 20' away to make sure the group on Hami's other side wouldn't be affected and I've always seen current Hami tankers set up in much the same position for the same reason.  Hami's AOE is no joke for most characters and (at least it used to) has a pretty good knockback and stun built into it.

If I'm tanking hami on the ground in melee, the league should not be in range of the aoe splash zone until the mitos are cleared. And during the fight hami phase, it is usually not an issue due to all the buffs (like rebirth and clarion). But if it is an issue, the tanker can simply move away from hami at this point. This phase is usually very short, so any melee range regen buffs/self heals won't be important anymore.

[Call Me Awesome]

17 hours ago, Elmyder said:

If I'm tanking hami on the ground in melee, the league should not be in range of the aoe splash zone until the mitos are cleared. And during the fight hami phase, it is usually not an issue due to all the buffs (like rebirth and clarion). But if it is an issue, the tanker can simply move away from hami at this point. This phase is usually very short, so any melee range regen buffs/self heals won't be important anymore.

My thoughts were formed in the old days where if Hami got loose during the hold phase the entire raid would wipe and you'd have to wait for a server reset to try again... Hami with several hundred yellow mitos was a no-go situation then.  I have seen Hami tanks in the old days try to stay in melee and raid members who were right on top of Hami on the other side DID get hit by the AOE.  To be on the safe side I always allowed ~10-20' of distance from Hami.

 

Back in the old days the tactic was that Illusion 'trollers would drop PA on Hami at the start and the raid would clear a section of Mitos at a time... remember there were LOTS more Mitos then than there are now.  I'd move in with a couple of Empathy defenders (back then there was no EoE and Hami'd damage was unresistable) and grab Hami's aggro keeping it off of the raid as they moved around killing the Mitos, also grabbing the attention of any Mitos that started shooting my heal team.  As Mitos were cleared I'd move around to keep the splash away from the Raid, finally ending up on the opposite side of Hami once the Mitos were clear.  At that time the raid would gather and hold Hami, which took if I remember correctly MAG 100 holds stacked up.  Once he was held then the Damage phase started to take him down... it was CRITICAL that the raid maintained the MAG 100 hold the entire time, if Hami got loose once he dropped to 50% then he'd summon a yellow Mito for every player and pet in the bowl ending the raid.

 

I admit to a lack of experience tanking the new Hami, I did it several times right after the change while we were working out a strategy but kind of burned out after awhile.  I've been to several raids here on Homecoming but I brought a Blaster instead of a Tank; I haven't done one since CMA hit 50 here.

[Elmyder]

31 minutes ago, Call Me Awesome said:

My thoughts were formed in the old days where if Hami got loose during the hold phase the entire raid would wipe and you'd have to wait for a server reset to try again... Hami with several hundred yellow mitos was a no-go situation then.  I have seen Hami tanks in the old days try to stay in melee and raid members who were right on top of Hami on the other side DID get hit by the AOE.  To be on the safe side I always allowed ~10-20' of distance from Hami.

 

Back in the old days the tactic was that Illusion 'trollers would drop PA on Hami at the start and the raid would clear a section of Mitos at a time... remember there were LOTS more Mitos then than there are now.  I'd move in with a couple of Empathy defenders (back then there was no EoE and Hami'd damage was unresistable) and grab Hami's aggro keeping it off of the raid as they moved around killing the Mitos, also grabbing the attention of any Mitos that started shooting my heal team.  As Mitos were cleared I'd move around to keep the splash away from the Raid, finally ending up on the opposite side of Hami once the Mitos were clear.  At that time the raid would gather and hold Hami, which took if I remember correctly MAG 100 holds stacked up.  Once he was held then the Damage phase started to take him down... it was CRITICAL that the raid maintained the MAG 100 hold the entire time, if Hami got loose once he dropped to 50% then he'd summon a yellow Mito for every player and pet in the bowl ending the raid.

 

I admit to a lack of experience tanking the new Hami, I did it several times right after the change while we were working out a strategy but kind of burned out after awhile.  I've been to several raids here on Homecoming but I brought a Blaster instead of a Tank; I haven't done one since CMA hit 50 here.

Oh yes, I know about the old hami raids. My comments are specifically for the current hami raids, of course (which is what is relevant to the OP).

The people I know who tank hami these days, myself included, all stay in melee range the entire time, including the final phase. Incarnates are powerful enough to make this go extremely fast and smooth most of the time. We typically will clear the 75% bloom and then just burn through the rest. It is even possible to burn through all blooms if you have a dream league.

 

Also, I just noticed that no one has replied to your earlier question yet. Yes, hami still deals -regen and -healing received. Hence the usefulness of empathy is stacking regen buffs to overpower the -regen, since the heals do nothing. Self heals, however, will still work. Hence why a powerset like dark can work so well, because dark regeneration is such a good self heal.

[VV]

I think the main point here is that, with enough HP to absorb a good hit, a pocket full of EoEs and a side of support, most any tank/brute can reliably tank the new Hami. I mean, I tanked Hami once on my (moderately well-built) /Fire tank with a couple supports at my side and a pocket-full of EoEs. It wasn't planned, someone clicked the wrong thinger and I was in the right/wrong place at the right time.

On 1/7/2020 at 8:51 PM, Corruption said:

Like Apparition said, Regen Brutes are the best. We ran a 5 person Hami with one as the "tank".

 

I used to run a Dark Armor Brute on live (red side) because Dark Regeneration is not affected by the -heal,

This is also why a Dwarf makes a good tank, spamming Black Dwarf Drain

[Call Me Awesome]

9 hours ago, Elmyder said:

Oh yes, I know about the old hami raids. My comments are specifically for the current hami raids, of course (which is what is relevant to the OP).

The people I know who tank hami these days, myself included, all stay in melee range the entire time, including the final phase. Incarnates are powerful enough to make this go extremely fast and smooth most of the time. We typically will clear the 75% bloom and then just burn through the rest. It is even possible to burn through all blooms if you have a dream league.

 

Also, I just noticed that no one has replied to your earlier question yet. Yes, hami still deals -regen and -healing received. Hence the usefulness of empathy is stacking regen buffs to overpower the -regen, since the heals do nothing. Self heals, however, will still work. Hence why a powerset like dark can work so well, because dark regeneration is such a good self heal.

I'd wondered.  Like I said it's been years since I tanked Hami and I only tanked the new Hami maybe a dozen times.  The raids I've been to here have been with a Blaster, who was the first I got to 50.  I'd certainly need to study the current methods before tanking him again, and it sounds like Invuln may not be the ideal choice now with Dull Pain the only heal other than green candy.  I built for defense & resistance, not for regeneration.

 

So you're staying melee with Hami throughout now, that's a change from before, I wonder if the AOE radius is a little smaller now since I know a taunt tank in close melee used to have splash on characters right on top of Hamidon on the other side... I ate that splash on a couple occasions when I took a Scrapper to the raid instead of tanking.

[Elmyder]

1 hour ago, Call Me Awesome said:

I'd wondered.  Like I said it's been years since I tanked Hami and I only tanked the new Hami maybe a dozen times.  The raids I've been to here have been with a Blaster, who was the first I got to 50.  I'd certainly need to study the current methods before tanking him again, and it sounds like Invuln may not be the ideal choice now with Dull Pain the only heal other than green candy.  I built for defense & resistance, not for regeneration.

Hami's -healing debuffs will also prevent green insps from having any affect, actually. Rebirth won't heal you either (only buff your regen). So you need to rely on certain self heals from your powersets.

[Gobbledygook]

On 1/7/2020 at 7:31 PM, Call Me Awesome said:

There's likely some truth to this, EoE inspirations take care of the damage input... without EoE there's no defense or resistance so no tanker primaries have an advantage over others.  I recall that on Live Hami's attacks had a -heal and -regen on them that would prevent you from being healed after a few hits, is that still the case?

 

In any case, the only advantage a tank has over a brute is a higher HP base.

 

Way back in the old days it was common for a Regen Scrapper to tank Hami (pre Regen nerf) since they could build enough Regen to handle Hami's 792 damage attack every 4 seconds.  By the time I seriously started raiding in issue 4 Regen had gotten clobbered with the Nerf bat and couldn't take it unassisted anymore.

 

I've only tried Regen out thrice since I4.

It's unplayable to me. I still cry about it in my sleep.

[VV]

On 1/9/2020 at 2:15 AM, Elmyder said:

Hami tanking does not involve being at range.

 

The best sets are those with high regen, but even more important than that is: 1. high max hp, 2. reliable self heals.

 

Bio tanker, dark tanker, and regen brute all perform extremely well. I don't know enough about willpower to comment on that one, but I expect it would also perform well.

What about Fire/? It has a self-heal that is almost as good as the Dark/ armor set, and it does not require a ToHit roll.

[Menelruin]

11 minutes ago, VV said:

What about Fire/? It has a self-heal that is almost as good as the Dark/ armor set, and it does not require a ToHit roll.

Is it "resistable" though?  I've been following threads about this in the Brute forums too, and they mention how some self-heals can be debuffed by Hami, and some can't. 

[VV]

4 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

Is it "resistable" though?  I've been following threads about this in the Brute forums too, and they mention how some self-heals can be debuffed by Hami, and some can't. 

What? That's crazy! I had never even thought about that. Had to go check. But, no, not resistible. 

[Menelruin]

9 minutes ago, VV said:

What? That's crazy! I had never even thought about that. Had to go check. But, no, not resistible. 

Yeah, like apparently Dull Pain and some other powers, including the Rebirth destiny, are tagged as Resistable, so Hami knocks down their effects to basically zilch.  Same for green inspirations.  Reconstruction in the Regen set is "unresistable" though, so it still works.  Same for Life Steal from Dark Melee.  That's why I'm currently hunting for a DM/Regen Brute build......

[Sura]

On 1/9/2020 at 1:15 AM, Elmyder said:

Hami tanking does not involve being at range.

 

The best sets are those with high regen, but even more important than that is: 1. high max hp, 2. reliable self heals.

 

Bio tanker, dark tanker, and regen brute all perform extremely well. I don't know enough about willpower to comment on that one, but I expect it would also perform well.

What level of Regen is necessary, approximately, does anyone know?  I've been working on a regen focused WIllpower tanker and it might give me some goals.

 

🙂

[Menelruin]

37 minutes ago, Sura said:

What level of Regen is necessary, approximately, does anyone know?  I've been working on a regen focused WIllpower tanker and it might give me some goals.

 

🙂

For Hami?  From what I'm hearing, it's a lost cause to try and get your passive Regen rate up high enough....Hami will drive it to zero very quickly.  I could be mistaken.  Imma tag you in the other thread.