Mastermind Primary Powers

[VileTerror]

You're welcome.

I have to say, though . . . once Henchpet Customization becomes a thing, a -LOT- of concepts can be served with minimal Power Sets.  A Set which includes Archery and Swords, for example, could be Medieval Knights Lost in Time just as easily as a joint Task Force between Wyvern and Knives of Artemis, simply by granting the player the power to customize the appearance of those Henches.

[Galaxy Brain]

I think I'd like to see shield used too, to use the shield auras  🙂

[biostem]

1 hour ago, VileTerror said:

I have to say, though . . . once Henchpet Customization becomes a thing, a -LOT- of concepts can be served with minimal Power Sets.  A Set which includes Archery and Swords, for example, could be Medieval Knights Lost in Time just as easily as a joint Task Force between Wyvern and Knives of Artemis, simply by granting the player the power to customize the appearance of those Henches.

Even more so if the weapons can similarly be customized;  Melee weapons can become sci-fi or low-fantasy as desired.  If such customization can be extended to non-human MM sets, then demon summoning could be various metahumans or magic users, and we could replace those rather pathetic looking T1 zombies with, well, slightly less pathetic, (yet still highly disposable), mutants or monsters...

[gameboy1234]

1 hour ago, biostem said:

then demon summoning could be various metahumans or magic users, and we could replace those rather pathetic looking T1 zombies with, well, slightly less pathetic, (yet still highly disposable), mutants or monsters...

This is a good point.  I wonder if we want to suggest ideas for how to customize the various sets.  Like I agree that current zombies are kinda one sided and fantasy themed.  I think perhaps the costume creator could be used to make more modern zombies with a "Shawn of the Dead" look, though the magic powers of the Lich would be a bit hard to explain.

 

Demons: lots of demon girls (especially) and also demon boys in Pocket D, they seem popular.  Again the costume creator might be used to create those kinds of demons.

 

Oh, and Thugs: I really like the look of the Syndicate for Thugs.  Would love to see some thugs with better fashion sense for my MMs.

 

[Razor Cure]

On 1/8/2020 at 3:07 AM, MetaVileTerror said:

It's been said (or more to the point:  claimed) that a Mastermind Primary is analogous to an amount of work equivalent to three to seven "regular" Power Sets.

That seems..excessive. Not saying it is wrong, but 3 new power sets? Take 3 new Blast power sets, 27 powers, 3 of which are Aim (or clones of), 3 are nukes, leaving 21 new powers.

COmpared to one MM set (as others haev said, from existing stuff, not brand new).

3 Personal attacks taken from powers we have. 2 pet upgrades. 1 'special' buff. 3 pets, that have 3-4 attacks recycled from enemies in game already.

That is literally just one 'new' power and the rest pulled from assets, and given a balance pass based on similar MM and pet attacks.

 

[Alchemystic]

Just some ideas I had for what two different MM sets might look like;

 

Knights:

Archer (Tier 1):

 

Man At Arms (Tier 2):

 

Crusader (Tier 3): 

 

---

 

Suits:

Agent (Tier 1):

 

Specialist (Tier 2):

 

G-Man (Tier 3): 

Edited January 9, 2020 by Tyrannical

[gameboy1234]

That's along the lines I'm thinking of too.  While not everything could be done in the costume creator, a lot could and we should take advantage of it.

 

Some criticisms:

 

1. "Default is male."  We should definitely be more inclusive and have female and ethnically diverse models.  For role play, it might be good to allow a player to choose all male, all female or mixed minions (the leader of a girl-gang, for example).

 

2.  Some minion sets already have more than three minions.  Thugs has quite a bit of diversity actually, and Gang War adds a level of complication to customizing it.  Some sets the third 1st Tier (the weakest tier) is special and looks different from the others.  Need more than three models for these sets.

 

[Sakura Tenshi]

sort of related to this topic, but one thing that might be cool for Masterminds would be to make "branching options" for their attacks. Basically, a thugs MM could instead pick assault rifle for their attacks, or pulse rifle, or a archery, and so on. One they picked one of the three attacks, it locks them to that ranged attack trio. (so you can't have a pulse rifle for your basic, pistols for your second, and your AoE attack being the demons whip)

 

This is meant to mostly let people embrace a more free concept with their MMs, and I can imagine many of the hurdles (for example, beast MMs' attacks are meant to build pack mentality to support their pets, and the -res from the infernal whip is (allegedly) a very strong attack, but I'm sure workarounds could be done, just the question being if it's worth it. Especially since it's rare for an MM to use their own attacks anyway once they're built out.

[Shazbotacus]

I would like to see medieval/fantasy henchmen. I’ve always figured it’d have T1 with swords for offense and shields and parrying to defend, with the third one being a healer type akin to the Luddite Friar: slottem for damage/accuracy/heal. T2 would be archers with strong single-target damage and either a hard CC or offense debuff to enhance and indirectly help survivability. T3, I’d style as a war wizard with nasty AoE damage and a resistance buff that can be enhanced and is applied to minions, and perhaps even the Mastermind, like the Ember Demon’s buff.

I see these pets being mostly resistance focused with the T1 henchmen also having good melee, but only melee, defense from their shield and Parry attack. No bullet parrying for the mooks. I see them being like Necromancy: relatively low damage, but high survivability. Perhaps better at AoE damage.

Edited January 10, 2020 by Shazbotacus

[Galaxy Brain]

Of the options, I think "Warriors" is the most feasible and probably the one where we could have each pet be different to a degree just like with demons, and like thugs where the 3rd minion is way way different.

 

Each pet could be very different with like the t1s being each a different weapon set, or even like one guy is a war mace, another sword and shield, and another is dual blades

 

The t2 could be a ranger and like, a druid / mage to offer back-line support for the footmen t1s, but both do different things from range. They could even maybe summon a wolf friend? 

 

The t3 could be a crusader / knight / paladin which acts like a tanker analogue to the thugs' brute. They are iron clad and use a titan weapon with a focus on taunting enemies, providing boosts to the team, and using rend armor / knockdowns to control enemies.

[Menelruin]

Hey, you know how Dual Pistols can change its damage type?  Do you think it would be too powerful to have an Elementals set where your minions all started out as a neutral homunculus or golem or something, then your first "upgrade" skill imbued them with an element, changing their stats and abilities?  You could also have your blasts start out as basic energy or smashing or something, then shift to whatever the last element you imbued a minion with was.

[Sakura Tenshi]

3 minutes ago, Menelruin said:

Hey, you know how Dual Pistols can change its damage type?  Do you think it would be too powerful to have an Elementals set where your minions all started out as a neutral homunculus or golem or something, then your first "upgrade" skill imbued them with an element, changing their stats and abilities?  You could also have your blasts start out as basic energy or smashing or something, then shift to whatever the last element you imbued a minion with was.

Maybe not overpowered, but it might be interesting if a Mastermind primary had a gimmick where they could change the elemental affinities of their pets on the fly to either probe for less-resisted damage in offense or setting their minions up to be more resilient against an enemy's attacks.

 

Slightly off the subject, but I was a little weirded out/annoyed when demon summoning's 'third damage type' was 'hellfire' (which was just fire/toxic) instead of negative energy.

 

Also, with so many interesting suggestions a 'knights' MM primary, would anyone object if I took my own crack at it? Asking since I'd rather not seem like I'm trying to override already good ideas to blow my own horns.

[Galaxy Brain]

Go right ahead @Sakura Tenshi! 🙂

[Sakura Tenshi]

I've only got a rough concept at the moment and I'm starting out with how the powers will look fully upgraded.

 

Tier 1 pet: The Levy

Levies are the backbone of a feudal war machine, lacking in armor and the strength of a dedicated warrior, they must work together and with their comrades to win the day. Armed with a Shield for defense and a warmace which will break even the toughest armors, they are not to be underestimated.

Levy powers - Bash (modified for higher chance to disorient), Crowd Control, Shatter Armor (damage reduced, modified from Banespider), Phalanx Fighting, Grant Cover, Gambison (minor +res v. smash, lethal, fire, cold)

The idea here is that The Levies are actually the source of support for a knights MM. On their own they're pretty laughable, but but with the ability to stun, knockdown groups, debuff res, and buff the defenses of eachother, they make for a crucial part of any attack.

 

Tier 2 Pet: Man-at-arms

You can summon a pair of Men-at-arms to fight for you in battle, they're armored in sturdy chainmail shirts, kettle helms (wide brimmed steel hats, possibly with a mail curtain around the back), articulated plate gauntlets and greaves. As their main weapon they carry the Halberd, a reliable and versatile weapon capable of hacking, stabbing, and hooking opponents and their weapons, and for those who escape the reach of their halberd, they keep a powerful longbow to pick off runners.

Man-at-arms powers: Mercurial Blow, Precise Strike, Innocuous Strikes, Sky Splitter, Aimed Shot, Snap Shot, Blazing Arrow, Mail Armor (Moderate Res vs. Smashinng, Lethal, Fire, and Cold)

The Man at Arms are meant to be sort of all-arounders and the primary source of ranged damage, though ultimately prefer melee. I'm not 100% happy with this though, as Halberds would handle a bit differently from staffs and there's only so many options in the attacks. Also not sure if the archery should be swapped out instead for a crossbow, either as an upgrade or just straight out.

 

tier 3 pet: The Champion

Your champion is your strongest servant, a one-man-army on the battlefield and a hero to your lesser knights. Clad in fullplate armor and armed with a greatsword, they are a shining beacon to your army, and a nightmare to your foes. (uses excalibur or black knights titan weapon, his version of titan weapon attacks deal lethal damage)

Champion Powers: Charge! (targetted AoE Shield charge attack, teleporting the champion to an enemy), Defensive Sweep, Titan Sweep, Follow Through, Whirling Smash, Rise to the Challenge, High Pain Tolerance, Knight's Armor (Moderate Resistance vs. Smash, lethal, Cold, Fire, and Psionic. minor defense vs. Melee, Ranged, and AoE)

To put it simply, the Champion is the powerhouse of the group, he sacrifices ranged damage means for a charge attack, and making him a greater beast would be a permanent momentum buff on his attacks, allowing him to cleave through mobs while keeping them on their backs.

 

This is, all very roughshod, and admittedly I don't know what gimmick it should have like Demons' diversity, Thugs' stacking buffs/sheer numbers, and Beast's pack mentality.

[Galaxy Brain]

Given the breadth of weapons we have, I think that a Knights/Warriors set should be super diverse with each tier having a spread of different pets.

 

I like the idea of the t1's all being X / Shield tho!

 

Having Phalanx Fighting + Grant Cover per minion is good, would probably count for the MM as well, but does require you to be in melee. As for the weapon sets per minion, we could play around a bit between Broadsword, Battle Axe, and War Mace. Though, with the Grave Knights already being sword-minions I want to avoid copying their theme much. Perhaps the 3rd minion here could be a different "Class" as it were? Like a Rogue, Archer, or as I proposed a dual-blade wielder.

 

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Galaxy Brain

[boggo2300]

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Given the breadth of weapons we have, I think that a Knights/Warriors set should be super diverse with each tier having a spread of different pets.

 

I like the idea of the t1's all being X / Shield tho!

 

Having Phalanx Fighting + Grant Cover per minion is good, would probably count for the MM as well, but does require you to be in melee. As for the weapon sets per minion, we could play around a bit between Broadsword, Battle Axe, and War Mace. Though, with the Grave Knights already being sword-minions I want to avoid copying their theme much. Perhaps the 3rd minion here could be a different "Class" as it were? Like a Rogue, Archer, or as I proposed a dual-blade wielder.

 

 

personally I want a Roman Legion...

[biostem]

5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Given the breadth of weapons we have, I think that a Knights/Warriors set should be super diverse with each tier having a spread of different pets.

 

I like the idea of the t1's all being X / Shield tho!

 

Having Phalanx Fighting + Grant Cover per minion is good, would probably count for the MM as well, but does require you to be in melee. As for the weapon sets per minion, we could play around a bit between Broadsword, Battle Axe, and War Mace. Though, with the Grave Knights already being sword-minions I want to avoid copying their theme much. Perhaps the 3rd minion here could be a different "Class" as it were? Like a Rogue, Archer, or as I proposed a dual-blade wielder.

Well, we already have a precedent of a MM pet with team buffs - the thugs enforcers have various leadership powers.  If the T1s were able to get the shield defense team-granting buffs, then they'd probably be very low in their buff value.  Maybe they could follow a basic "T1 = basic melee fighters, T2 = basic ranged attackers, and T3 = mage" format.  Perhaps the T1s could consist of 2 axe & shield fighters,  and finally a mace & shield cleric with 1 fewer attack but also a heal-other ability.  The T2s could be basic archers or perhaps more ranger-like, with a nature power or 2 thrown into the mix.  The T3 would be, IMO, more mage-like, with a fireball, a lightning bolt, a basic magic missile-like attack, and perhaps an ice hold, to round out their abilities...

Edited January 11, 2020 by biostem

[Sakura Tenshi]

Please, no more cramming blatant magical entities into what would otherwise be a perfectly decent natural origin MM primary? I still hate ninjas because you have perfectly good, badass ninjas and then suddenly a freaking 'demon' in a damn tokusatsu mask. (He's also not even a warrior of 'wind and fire' just fire!)

[Galaxy Brain]

Can we get like, an alternate ninja set with a "shogun" t3 pet?

[boggo2300]

1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Can we get like, an alternate ninja set with a "shogun" t3 pet?

I misread that as Shotgun, and honestly thought, that might be cool...

[Alchemystic]

6 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Can we get like, an alternate ninja set with a "shogun" t3 pet?

Ninjas as a whole needs a revision, especially with Martial Assault being a thing now.

[VileTerror]

New Character Concept:  Shotgun Ninja.

[boggo2300]

11 minutes ago, VileTerror said:

New Character Concept:  Shotgun Ninja.

all over that like a rash!!! I do already have a Gunslinger Ninja 😄

[VileTerror]

Assault Rifle / Ninjitsu Sentinel who only takes Primary Powers like Buckshot and Disorienting Shot?   Or go with an Arachnos Soldier instead and build for Single Shot and Cloaking Device?

[Sakura Tenshi]

I actually did a write up way back on live for an alternate tier 3 pet for ninjas in the form of the Kunoichi. Admittedly, she was still pretty mystically aligned but not quite as blatant as going from a bunch of trained assassins to a fire demon. rough idea was:

 

Base powers - Quick Strike*, Body Blow, Focused Burst (Or masterful throw) Defenses (jounin level defenses versus Melee, Ranged, and AoE)

Upgrade 1 - Smashing Blow, Alkaloid

Upgrade 2 - Burst, Weaken, Shadow Fade**

 

In my mind the Kunoichi was meant to be both support and attack, using alkaloid to heal, Shadowfade to give both her MM and fellow ninjas stealth and much needed additional defense, her attacks could debilitate incoming damage, and ultimately weaken would be used to give an indirect mez resistance to the ninjas and further reduce incoming damage. I think these days I might consider giving her Street Justice instead and let her ranged attacks be the cooler shuriken attacks and rely more on poison for support.

 

*The Kunoichi's version of kinetic melee attacks always deals -damage debuff

**Basically it's Shadowfall but as a 60 second long click buff with a 180 second long recharge.