Allow Ouroboros rewards to scale

[Klaleara]

So, I've recently come to the realization, that missions don't scale (Alternative, and preferred, fix to this problem, is make it so missions scale entirely).  And the only way to really do them is to hit up the Ouroboros.  

But the problem I have, is the rewards don't scale up, so besides story, it is pretty pointless.  And I do want to learn the story, but I also want to feel my character progress.  So please change it so using the Ouroboros rewards to scale when reduced to lower levels.

 

Hell, make it so rewards only scale during the first time you do the mission for all I care.  I just want to go do the content I missed, while still getting stuff.  Better than farming AE all day every day.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

tbh id like to do oro missions on my max char with max level enemies some of my chars dont feel good to play at the lower levels.

[Klaleara]

12 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

tbh id like to do oro missions on my max char with max level enemies some of my chars dont feel good to play at the lower levels.

I would far prefer to play at max level too, I think this would be the best route to do it.  And potentially easier coding wise?  No idea.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

right now one of the biggest issues is a lack of end game content, so if all content can BE end game content problem solved?

[Troo]

so you wanna skip the missions, get to max level, and then go back and do the skipped missions for bigger level 50 rewards? wow

[Klaleara]

5 minutes ago, Troo said:

so you wanna skip the missions, get to max level, and then go back and do the skipped missions for bigger level 50 rewards? wow

There are plenty of things at level 50 that give better rewards than missions.  Not only that, but I'd still be doing content at my level, for rewards appropriate to my level.  Unsure what is so game breaking about that.

So my response is, yes, that is what I want.

 

And to add even more, plenty of other MMO's that do similar things this day and age.  Not nearly as much of a dramatic difference as you're making it seem.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Klaleara

[Troo]

8 hours ago, Klaleara said:

fix to this problem

as designed and as intended. there is no problem.

at some point I hope those that spend extensive amounts of time in AE farming realize AE is a mini game inside a much larger game. I think some folks already know. Maybe they prefer the mini game, which is okay.

 

fyi some enemy groups are level limited. some missions are designed for certain level ranges. some missions or contacts were needed to open additional contacts and content. some missions earned badges.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Troo

[Klaleara]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

as designed and as intended. there is no problem.

at some point I hope those that spend extensive amounts of time in AE farming realize AE is a mini game inside a much larger game. I think some folks already know.

 

fyi some enemy groups are level limited. some missions are designed for certain level ranges.

It is literally just numbers.  CoX does not have missions DESIGNED for certain level ranges.  It was just capped at that level.  There are not mechanics in CoX that require you to do certain things with certain abilities you only have at certain times.  

 

And yes, it is a problem in my opinion.  Just because that is how they created it, doesn't mean it was created in a good way, or couldn't be improved on.

 

Nor am I just talking about AE farming.  There is AE farming, MSR, Trials, Strike Forces, and plenty of other things for great rewards.  "I" just want to go do the story archs, while feeling like I'm running in place.

 

There is literally no downside to this change as far as I can see.  Well, I guess the man power to make the change is a downside.  But increasing level 50 content by a huge margin is not something I'd ignore completely.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Klaleara

[Troo]

 

7 hours ago, Klaleara said:

It is literally just numbers.  CoX does not have missions DESIGNED for certain level ranges.  It was just capped at that level.  There are not mechanics in CoX that require you to do certain things with certain abilities you only have at certain times.  

COX was designed with some missions and enemies groups for specific level ranges. Some exist only at certain ranges. That you are unaware of this is okay. The game actually throws subtle new challenges at characters as they progress. 

 

Folks can read up on issue 11 ay https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Issue_11

Ouroboros System/Flashback

Heroes and Villains can use the Flashback system to return to story arcs that they may have missed and replay hundreds of missions from earlier in the game. Players can set mission parameters for these missions to earn special badges. Heroes and Villains are auto-exemplared to the appropriate level for each story arc to ensure the challenge level remains constant.

 

Through the Menders of Ouroboros players become able through time and relive major events from the history of Paragon City and the Rogue Isles. Heroes who travel back in time can embark on missions such as preventing the Circle of Thorns from unleashing a powerful demon, a story originally presented in the City of Heroes comic book. Villains who journey through time can get the chance to assist Lord Recluse in his initial campaign to conquer the Rogue Isles, as well as other unconfirmed missions.

[Parabola]

26 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

It is literally just numbers.

But it isn't. Low level enemies are heavily limited in their power selections too. You couldn't just scale a hellion up to 50 and have it be on a par with a carnie. Not saying that the work couldn't be done to make every faction work up to 50 but it would take more than just removing a cap off some numbers.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

there are already other versions of COH where you do not outlevel missions and the enemy levels do scale with you. So it is possible. I dont care about the rewards tbh i just dont like feeling gimped.

[Lost Ninja]

1 hour ago, Troo said:

as designed and as intended. there is no problem.

at some point I hope those that spend extensive amounts of time in AE farming realize AE is a mini game inside a much larger game. I think some folks already know. Maybe they prefer the mini game, which is okay.

 

fyi some enemy groups are level limited. some missions are designed for certain level ranges. some missions or contacts were needed to open additional contacts and content. some missions earned badges.

And those that didn't farm their way to 50 but still want to continue to play at 50?

 

It's a massive mistake to assume that everyone who prefers to play on their max level character only has a max level character because they farmed AE.

 

I have both I also have some that I farmed through bits of the process that I wasn't enjoying (or just really wanted the next level's power to flesh out the build). I do most of my levelling outside of AE/TFs through the Orubos (Base Item), because I don't need to follow contacts and I can pick and choose which arcs I want to pursue and which I can avoid (Any with a lot of Crystal Caves or Council Maps.) I for one would appreciate scaling rewards, even if they only scaled on the initial play through.

 

Personally I'd like to see the auto-exemping tech be rolled out game wide for all missions/zones (with a Null the Gull/P2W toggle ofc).

[Klaleara]

34 minutes ago, Lost Ninja said:

And those that didn't farm their way to 50 but still want to continue to play at 50?

 

It's a massive mistake to assume that everyone who prefers to play on their max level character only has a max level character because they farmed AE.

 

I have both I also have some that I farmed through bits of the process that I wasn't enjoying (or just really wanted the next level's power to flesh out the build). I do most of my levelling outside of AE/TFs through the Orubos (Base Item), because I don't need to follow contacts and I can pick and choose which arcs I want to pursue and which I can avoid (Any with a lot of Crystal Caves or Council Maps.) I for one would appreciate scaling rewards, even if they only scaled on the initial play through.

 

Personally I'd like to see the auto-exemping tech be rolled out game wide for all missions/zones (with a Null the Gull/P2W toggle ofc).

I would love seeing entire zone auto-exemping.  Do wish I could keep all my powers though.

[Troo]

1 hour ago, Lost Ninja said:

It's a massive mistake to assume that everyone who

Dude. the irony.

fyi - I didn't assume anything.

 

To your question: "And those that didn't farm their way to 50 but still want to continue to play at 50?"

Answer: Keep playing. Lots to do. Dark Astoria, Cimerora, The Storm Palace, The Hive / The Abyss, Monster Island, Peregrine Island, Recluse's Victory, Grandville, Rikti War Zone, etc. There is level 50 or near 50 content available in Ouroboros if it was missed. New content hopefully, and AE player created content. Would folks, for example, also expect task forces like Positron to scale to 50?

 

"Heroes and Villains are auto-exemplared to the appropriate level for each story arc to ensure the challenge level remains constant." To suggest that the way it works is broken and needs fixing is simply incorrect. If there is an idea to have all missions play at 50 - this game has some limitation which may make that difficult. Some of the arcs may work. Others not so much.

 

Spending time reworking content that folks voluntarily skipped.. well, in my opinion, any resources that could go to this could go to fixing actual broken items and new content that all could enjoy.

 

Edited January 11, 2020 by Troo

[Saiyajinzoningen]

11 minutes ago, Troo said:

Dude. the irony.

fyi - I didn't assume anything.

 

To your question: "And those that didn't farm their way to 50 but still want to continue to play at 50?"

Answer: Keep playing. Lots to do. Dark Astoria, Cimerora, The Storm Palace, The Hive / The Abyss, Monster Island, Peregrine Island, Recluse's Victory, Grandville, Rikti War Zone, etc. There is level 50 or near 50 content available in Ouroboros if it was missed. New content hopefully, and AE player created content. Would folks, for example, also expect task forces like Positron to scale to 50?

 

"Heroes and Villains are auto-exemplared to the appropriate level for each story arc to ensure the challenge level remains constant." To suggest that the way it works is broken and needs fixing is simply incorrect. If there is an idea to have all missions play at 50 - this game has some limitation which may make that difficult. Some of the arcs may work. Others not so much.

 

Spending time reworking content that folks voluntarily skipped.. well, in my opinion, any resources that could go to this could go to fixing actual broken items and new content that all could enjoy.

 

voluntarily skipped? u do realize there is more pre 50 content than you could ever do before hitting 50. The only way to do it all is to turn XP off which wasnt an option live. In the end its about options you wanna do low level content and be low level thats fine we arent saying get rid of that all we want is the option to do the same content at whatever level we happen to be at the time. 

[Klaleara]

34 minutes ago, Troo said:

Dude. the irony.

fyi - I didn't assume anything.

 

To your question: "And those that didn't farm their way to 50 but still want to continue to play at 50?"

Answer: Keep playing. Lots to do. Dark Astoria, Cimerora, The Storm Palace, The Hive / The Abyss, Monster Island, Peregrine Island, Recluse's Victory, Grandville, Rikti War Zone, etc. There is level 50 or near 50 content available in Ouroboros if it was missed. New content hopefully, and AE player created content. Would folks, for example, also expect task forces like Positron to scale to 50?

 

"Heroes and Villains are auto-exemplared to the appropriate level for each story arc to ensure the challenge level remains constant." To suggest that the way it works is broken and needs fixing is simply incorrect. If there is an idea to have all missions play at 50 - this game has some limitation which may make that difficult. Some of the arcs may work. Others not so much.

 

Spending time reworking content that folks voluntarily skipped.. well, in my opinion, any resources that could go to this could go to fixing actual broken items and new content that all could enjoy.

 

All of those you listed have leadup missions (Or entire zones).  And if you haven't done them, you're completely confused where you are on the story.

 

Not only that, but if you team with people at all, you don't get any of the story either.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Klaleara

[Troo]

 

23 minutes ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

voluntarily skipped?

If a player out levels a contact or mission it is available in Ouroboros. I wouldn't consider that voluntarily skipping.

We have an opportunity to play that content at the intended level range.

 

If folks with higher level characters want to do a lower level task force with some friends (which is great) they exemplar/malefactor down. They do not get to do lower level task forces as a fully built out 50 with incarnate abilities.

 

Note: Standing in an AE farm from 1-50 or something similar is what I would consider voluntarily skipping.

6 minutes ago, Klaleara said:

Not only that, but if you team with people at all, you don't get any of the story either.

I get it. 

The root request of the original post as I understand it is not ill-intended. It may even be possible with a small slice of the content. (if it's easy it may be worth investigating)

Overall, it is not how it was intended or designed. It's a large game. Originally it didn't go to level 50 much less incarnates. Reworking all of the legacy content may be resource intensive and very challenging. It's not going to happen with a sweeping change. A handful of arcs could be identified that might translate to higher levels and trickle out one or two at a time.. maybe that's possible.

 

[Lost Ninja]

3 hours ago, Troo said:

at some point I hope those that spend extensive amounts of time in AE farming realize AE is a mini game inside a much larger game.

 

46 minutes ago, Troo said:

fyi - I didn't assume anything.

No? Sounds like it to me.

 

You can easily reach 50 doing way less than 50% Hero Content, not counting Rogue or Villain content at all. Unless you turn XP gain off to complete content (arguably not the way the game is intended to be played) you cannot do all content at the level intended. Okay so a lot of Hero side content, especially content added early on is boring and poorly designed (though often the story is well written), but I don't think that the intention of any of the devs post Orubos (i11?) was to restrict content from players. Scaling the rewards would perhaps mean more people would experience more content.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

another problem with oro is you are locked in with whomever your did or did not start the arc with some missions are overwhelmingly difficult for some classes. So if you do need help you cannot invite someone to aid you once its already in progress.

[boggo2300]

Scaling rewards in Ouro is a sucky idea, you are already getting the arc on easy mode by exemping for it, making it give more rewards than the mission is designed to give is just the most terrible idea of what to do with Ouro I've heard,  it definitely needs work to fix things like @Saiyajinzoningenmentions above, but making an easier way to do a mission reward more is nuts sorry

[Klaleara]

I'll change how I'm approaching this.

 

I'll be quitting shortly, due to the fact that I'm running out of content (I'm not saying this as a threat, devs don't care, they don't make money off of me even if I do donate).  And I haven't even been playing that long.  I don't care to grind the same trial, mothership, etc, over and over again.  And there is a plethora of other mission story archs I could do.  But I still want to progress my character.

 

Any level should be able to do any content at their level, or above.  Who cares if its easy, there is TONS of content that is easy that is more rewarding than missions.  Not only that, but I'd be bumping it up to the difficulty that I'd like.  Because that is how "I" want to play.  If someone wants to then grind out mission rewards because somehow its easier (Which I truly don't see, considering 15 minute trials that give hella better rewards exist), let them.

 

This comes down to, "Why punish the good, because of the bad".  I'm not an alt-aholic, I have my 2 characters that I enjoy.  And I want to progress them to the very top, while doing unique content.

 

I love CoX, it is still my favorite MMO mechanically.  And changing this would only make it for the better, by far.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Klaleara

[boggo2300]

you do realise there is so much content you can't actually do even half of it while levelling up before hitting 50 (ie progressing your character) I fail to see how increasing the rewards for easy modeing the content is going to do anything good for the game

[Monos King]

2 hours ago, Klaleara said:

Any level should be able to do any content at their level, or above. 

Then the point of making level based content is...?

You have to forgive me, but this sounds silly. I also don't understand your content qualm to begin with; did you think most of us didn't already do every single mission years ago? Homecoming is, like, a time capsule and many of us are here to relive the game itself. Not a lot of people care about whether or not the arcs that they haven't done are going to give rewards, they might literally do them for no rewards to begin with. 

But speaking contexturally, I also completely fail to understand your concern. Everyone knows how to get XP or Merits or anything, it's uber easy, why do you want more rewards for low content? That's not how it works. You get the opportunity to do them if you haven't and that's kind of it right? What am I missing here?

[Mansome]

Surprised no one has said this yet. One reason you can't do this is because the whole point of O-missions is that you are going back in time to a point in history in your own body to a point when you didn't know or fully master said skills or powers. This is an earlier version of you so it makes sense that you dont have the same level as level 50 in terms of performance. While I know the whole no powers thing can be annoying at times but this is why they give us 2 builds. Make one for exemplar and one for level 50. Alternatively just use attuned IOs, pvp IOs, and purple IOs. Personally I won't be doing O-missions for badges until I know this game is going to survive. Once we get the okay then I will be going back to finish all the old content for badges.

[Troo]

  

18 hours ago, Klaleara said:

I'll be quitting shortly, due to the fact that I'm running out of content

Sorry to see this and good luck to you.

I've always felt COX provided a massive amount of content and a very high level of replay-ability. 15 or so archetypes each with dozens of power combinations, over 50 zones of missions, task forces, trials and large scale events with one of the best character creators I've seen. It has something for explorers, crafters, completion-ists, socializers, solo players, teams, player vs player and on and on.