Warshade/Peacebringer QOL

[Super Atom]

Have the human form toggled abilities suppressed instead of turning off when swapping forms, that way when you re-enter human form you do not need to turn them all back on before jumping into the next group. In the other forms they still wouldn't give any bonuses or anything because that would be op. This might be seen as a small "buff" to WS/PB but it wouldn't be much of one if so just a lot less annoying in between groups.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Super Atom
changed "mob" to "group" because lingo

[Saiyajinzoningen]

Hello, this is like the 3rd thread suggesting this.  I play a human only PB and he is very OP. So he doesn't require this change. however i am not against this change, as it wouldn't affect me in any way. 

[Doomrider]

13 hours ago, Super Atom said:

Have the human form toggled abilities suppressed instead of turning off when swapping forms, that way when you re-enter human form you do not need to turn them all back on before jumping into the next group. In the other forms they still wouldn't give any bonuses or anything because that would be op. This might be seen as a small "buff" to WS/PB but it wouldn't be much of one if so just a lot less annoying in between groups.

Agreed. I would also extend this to all toggles not just the ones built into the primary/secondary. While no toggles would benefit forms while shifted (and that is the intent still) having the toggles not drop when you returned to Human Form would be much more intuitive than how they currently work.  There have been changes made during the course of the game to reduce the amount of re-toggling required, it's not a stretch to say this could be implemented for Khelds but I wouldn't call it a buff per say, only due to what connotations that word brings.

This would be a massive QoL boost for the both Kheld AT's, it would open up greater variety of ways to build within the AT and help solve some of the clunkiness that is apparent with how shifting currently works, not to mention would be a step in the right direction as far as making the class more accessible and intuitive for first time Kheld players.

 

5 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Hello, this is like the 3rd thread suggesting this.  I play a human only PB and he is very OP. So he doesn't require this change. however i am not against this change, as it wouldn't affect me in any way. 

This may be the 3rd thread you've seen, but this has been a topic of discussion and a request from Kheld vets for as long as i've been a part of this very small subset of the community, going way back before the snap, before HC was even a thought. I think another thread is warranted if this idea is to get traction especially given the even smaller subset of players regularly playing Khelds on HC servers.

That being said, I think there are certain advantages toggle suppression could bring to Human Only builds, or rather lets call them, Human Focused builds. Dwarf form specifically could bring a lot of added utility to a Human Focused build with minimal slot investment if only you could guarantee your toggles would not need to be turned back on once you shifted back to your primary (human) form.

Edited January 16, 2020 by Doomrider

[Honest Abe]

Toggle suppression should be implemented.  I agree wholeheartedly.  

 

My Khelds were old when this topic was young and yet here I am requesting it once again dear devs.  

 

Please make toggle suppression a reality as has been said it...

20 minutes ago, Doomrider said:

would be a step in the right direction as far as making the class more accessible and intuitive for first time Kheld players.

Do it...do it for the children.  And now...a song...

 

"I believe the children are our future.  Teach them well and let them lead the way.  Show them all the beauty they possess inside.  Give them a sense of pride to make it easier.  Let the children's laughter remind us of how we used to be.  Everybody is searching for a hero..."

 

 

Devs - YOU - can be that hero. 

 

Set aside your other pursuits!  

 

Prioritize toggle suppression! 

 

Bring about this long-standing, and shared, dream! 

 

Grant us toggle suppression in 2020!!!  

 

 

On behalf of all Kheldians everywhere...we thank you in advance.

 

Alien in Black (song by Whitney Houston)

[Super Atom]

12 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Hello, this is like the 3rd thread suggesting this.  I play a human only PB and he is very OP. So he doesn't require this change. however i am not against this change, as it wouldn't affect me in any way. 

I tried looking before posting but i guess i failed. It makes sense this is the third time though, It's probably the most annoying thing about multi-forming to the point where a lot of people i know won't play khelds over it. Love perma-lightform PB, i just wanted to venture into the forms and re-toggling is so off putting its crazy. I'm glad to see this is a common request though.

 

It would be nice to have some dev acknowledgement on this issue though considering how common it is.

 

 

[Safehouse]

13 hours ago, Saiyajinzoningen said:

Hello, this is like the 3rd thread suggesting this.  I play a human only PB and he is very OP. So he doesn't require this change. however i am not against this change, as it wouldn't affect me in any way. 

Forgive me that this is not directly related to this thread, but I’m really interested in how you got your human only PB to be OP. I’ve wanted to roll one but don’t even know where to begin haha.

 

As far as toggle suppression goes - I’m not entirely clear on what this means. If I understand correctly does this mean that when you get out of other forms the toggles you had on beforehand are still on?

[Super Atom]

1 minute ago, Safehouse said:

Forgive me that this is not directly related to this thread, but I’m really interested in how you got your human only PB to be OP. I’ve wanted to roll one but don’t even know where to begin haha.

 

As far as toggle suppression goes - I’m not entirely clear on what this means. If I understand correctly does this mean that when you get out of other forms the toggles you had on beforehand are still on?

This is correct, so when you drop out of squid or lobster you'd still have the toggles on that were active before going into those forms. It's probably the most annoying thing about them outside of choosing what to slot.

[Septipheran]

I would like to just say that I discussed this with Arbiter Hawk before official shutdown, and he said that he didn't see toggle suppression as being overpowered or anything, it was just impossible at the time to implement because of tech limitations (I'm not able to elaborate because that's all I recall.)

 

I think he also said that it would be nice for things like the new travel powers too, so if they did have the tech it would be beneficial for things besides Kheldians. 

 

Maybe since so much time has gone by and technology has improved, this is something that the Homecoming team might be able to implement.  It would definitely be a tremendous QoL improvement, and has been the most requested feature from regular Kheldian players for as long as I can remember. 

Edited January 16, 2020 by Septipheran

[Doomrider]

1 hour ago, Safehouse said:

Forgive me that this is not directly related to this thread, but I’m really interested in how you got your human only PB to be OP. I’ve wanted to roll one but don’t even know where to begin haha.

 

If you need assistance understanding Peacebringers and how to build them the Peacebringer & Warshade sub-forum is a good place to start. Plenty of knowledgeable people to lend a hand and lots of good information and resources. I have a thread there with numerous PB & WS builds I've created and posted for people to use as templates, each with a rundown of the highlights of each if you were curious about what Peacebringer builds look like.

[Safehouse]

3 minutes ago, Doomrider said:

If you need assistance understanding Peacebringers and how to build them the Peacebringer & Warshade sub-forum is a good place to start. Plenty of knowledgeable people to lend a hand and lots of good information and resources. I have a thread there with numerous PB & WS builds I've created and posted for people to use as templates, each with a rundown of the highlights of each if you were curious about what Peacebringer builds look like.

Funny you mention that because I started snooping around in there just a little bit ago! It’s a bit overwhelming to start but I’m piecing through it! The Mfin warshade and GD Peacebringers threads are really fascinating. Thanks for the recommendation 😃 

[Doomrider]

3 minutes ago, Safehouse said:

Funny you mention that because I started snooping around in there just a little bit ago! It’s a bit overwhelming to start but I’m piecing through it! The Mfin warshade and GD Peacebringers threads are really fascinating. Thanks for the recommendation 😃 

No problem. If you need any else feel free to DM me. I'm also on the CoH: Homecoming discord as well.

[SwitchFade]

On a warshade, tri-former, this would be mostly a moot change, due to slotting limitations. If you slot well to really harness the tri-forming, there's none left for toggle shields or human attacks. So, when I go to human it is for utility. If you slot human form to be at all powerful, you gimp forms. So on a Warshade tri-form, this would be basically pointless.

 

That said, I wouldn't object to it for versatility.  I say, if it can be done, go for it.

[Microcosm]

4 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

On a warshade, tri-former, this would be mostly a moot change, due to slotting limitations. If you slot well to really harness the tri-forming, there's none left for toggle shields or human attacks. So, when I go to human it is for utility. If you slot human form to be at all powerful, you gimp forms. So on a Warshade tri-form, this would be basically pointless.

 

That said, I wouldn't object to it for versatility.  I say, if it can be done, go for it.

I think you end up not having room for the shields/other toggles because they aren't worthwhile for the very reason that they detoggle. Self-fulfilling prophecy. If you're pre-Eclipse levels (which is most of them), flying around in Nova and you decide to switch to human to mire in a group or smack someone with your siphon heal or gravity well, it sure would be nice if your shields were actually running when you're suddenly in melee. I would unquestionably take and use Inky Aspect and Orbiting Death regardless of if I have Eclipse if the toggles suppressed.

[Carnifax]

Yes to this. 

 

Personally id go slightly further and allow Orbiting death run unsurpressed in Dwarf and the Stun cone be used in Black Nova.

 

Id also like epics on Khelds, mix of things plucked from scrapper, brute, tank pools (no attacks or shields but other things like buffs, controls and debuffs). 

[Mystic_Cross]

This sounds like a great idea. The only possible problem I can see is that... with current toggle suppression, the toggles still actively drain end AFAIK.

 

If it could be done, and the devs were willing to do it, a similar change could also apply to the temp travel powers as well, like the flying carpet, hoverboard or the shapeshifting ones. Would be fantastic if we could also choose to keep the visual effects or not during suppression, like an options menu "allow visual effects during suppression: on/off" or something, but that may be asking too much.

[Doomrider]

8 hours ago, Mystic_Cross said:

This sounds like a great idea. The only possible problem I can see is that... with current toggle suppression, the toggles still actively drain end AFAIK.

 

If it could be done, and the devs were willing to do it, a similar change could also apply to the temp travel powers as well, like the flying carpet, hoverboard or the shapeshifting ones. Would be fantastic if we could also choose to keep the visual effects or not during suppression, like an options menu "allow visual effects during suppression: on/off" or something, but that may be asking too much.

I think there may be a work around to suppress the effects of the toggle if suppressing the whole toggle out right is not an option.... Here's the idea:

Look at the way Bio Armor's Adaptations currently work; when you have one toggled, it modifies the buff values of certain powers, sometimes reducing your resistances, granting the player end reduction or allowing certain powers to grant a damage bonus. I think it's safe to say something similar to this mechanic could be implemented with the form powers themselves to achieve this, a psuedo suppression if you will. So for instance if you had Orbiting Death toggled on but switched to Nova, OD would stay on but the Nova toggle power itself would modify Orbiting Death's damage to 0 and reduce it's end to 0 (or near 0) while you have Nova toggled on and likewise with Dwarf. This could then be applied to a variety of toggle powers.

So in essence I guess rather than suppressing the toggle itself in whole, we'd change the form power toggles to modify or suppress the effects of the toggles while the either form power is toggled.

Edited January 17, 2020 by Doomrider

[Super Atom]

Thats a great suggestion Doom.

 

Also i agree about OB. It should be usable in dwarf at the very least, but thats a different subject for another time.