Unlimited Funds in Minutes & Level 50 too

[Shred Monkey]

2 hours ago, Xanatos said:

....It is so much fun running a 3-or-4-man....

This is exactly how I play, too.   But I level up my toons and enjoy the ride instead of using a shortcut. It's not that I think you're evil.  Seriously, you're probably pretty cool and I'm sure we'd get along great in game. 

 

But you can see also that something has been lost here, too, right?  In traditional RPGs, reaching the endgame is supposed to be the crowning achievement of a long, and arduous process.  The more time and effort you spend, the more valuable that achievement is.   Over time you work hard to increase in skill and knowledge while earning your powers and stats in a step by step in a ever-more-difficult progression that yields snowballing rewards of pleasure and self-satisfaction with each glorious victory.  

 

IMHO, what CoH was turned into with the creation of exploitable AE content is more like SuperheroSIMs.  Don't get me wrong, it's still great.  In fact, in my opinion it's the best ever.  But you'll have to forgive me that, in it's current form, it no longer meets my definition of the term "Game."   

[Xanatos]

1 hour ago, Shred Monkey said:

This is exactly how I play, too.   But I level up my toons and enjoy the ride instead of using a shortcut. It's not that I think you're evil.  Seriously, you're probably pretty cool and I'm sure we'd get along great in game. 

 

But you can see also that something has been lost here, too, right?  In traditional RPGs, reaching the endgame is supposed to be the crowning achievement of a long, and arduous process.  The more time and effort you spend, the more valuable that achievement is.   Over time you work hard to increase in skill and knowledge while earning your powers and stats in a step by step in a ever-more-difficult progression that yields snowballing rewards of pleasure and self-satisfaction with each glorious victory.  

 

IMHO, what CoH was turned into with the creation of exploitable AE content is more like SuperheroSIMs.  Don't get me wrong, it's still great.  In fact, in my opinion it's the best ever.  But you'll have to forgive me that, in it's current form, it no longer meets my definition of the term "Game."   

 

Spending time and effort achieving something does not make it inherently more valuable. Especially when it comes to MMORPGs; games which, by their very nature, are designed to waste your time and keep you playing (and paying) for as long as possible. I get that seeing the "mission complete" popup, or getting another level, or unlocking another power, are all dopamine hits, but that's all they are. They're not accomplishments. Anyone can do it if they sit at the computer for long enough. Leveling 1-50 the regular way is just as easy as AFK Farming, it just takes longer.

 

I realised this pretty early on with CoH, so I found my sense of reward elsewhere in the game. By creating interesting characters, telling stories with them, and all the stuff I outlined in my last post. So, genuinely, nothing's been lost for me. I've been treating CoH as a creative sandbox/SuperheroSIMS since 2004. It has been, and continues to be, a lot of fun. If anything, being able to AFK farm 1-50 in a day, and then AFK farm as many vet levels as I need for incarnates, has added to the fun. If it was harder to do this, I wouldn't still be here.

Edited July 9, 2020 by Xanatos

[ImpousVileTerror]

@Xanatos hammers the head of the nail quite squarely there.

 

Not to diminish the sense of enjoyment that anyone else gets from this game . . . but . . . yeah.  "Accomplishment" is a pretty bold word to throw around.   It's a game, and a (thankfully) very accessible one at that.  Nothing we do in this game is really more meaningful than the meaning we assign it.  There's nothing sacrosanct to protect in the core gameplay loop itself.  What makes City of Heroes so much more, and so worthwhile is that it -can- and -does- offer rewards in more meaningful ways; deeply personal ways and mutually-beneficial social ways.

[Twisted Toon]

4 hours ago, Xanatos said:

 

Spending time and effort achieving something does not make it inherently more valuable. Especially when it comes to MMORPGs; games which, by their very nature, are designed to waste your time and keep you playing (and paying) for as long as possible. I get that seeing the "mission complete" popup, or getting another level, or unlocking another power, are all dopamine hits, but that's all they are. They're not accomplishments. Anyone can do it if they sit at the computer for long enough. Leveling 1-50 the regular way is just as easy as AFK Farming, it just takes longer.

 

3 hours ago, ImpousVileTerror said:

@Xanatos hammers the head of the nail quite squarely there.

 

Not to diminish the sense of enjoyment that anyone else gets from this game . . . but . . . yeah.  "Accomplishment" is a pretty bold word to throw around.   It's a game, and a (thankfully) very accessible one at that.  Nothing we do in this game is really more meaningful than the meaning we assign it.  There's nothing sacrosanct to protect in the core gameplay loop itself.  What makes City of Heroes so much more, and so worthwhile is that it -can- and -does- offer rewards in more meaningful ways; deeply personal ways and mutually-beneficial social ways.

Anyone can float a canoe down a river. Some people will enjoy it more than others. One person's accomplishment is another person's "Meh."

 

I find AFK farming to be boring. I find farming in general to be boring. I have a character that hasn't stepped out of the AE building except to level up.

He's currently sitting around level 25, and has been for the last 6 months.

 

I also enjoy playing my AR/Dev Blaster in missions. She's a character that I can't really play on a team because I tend to use tricky means to take out groups.

A couple of trip mines and caltrops will do wonders to minions. LTs and Bosses are mostly dead from the Snipe. But, I take my time with her. Which is something a lot of people have issues with.

 

I find satisfaction in the little accomplishments that I achieve while playing missions.

I don't care that you can kill a Pylon in the RWZ in less than 2 minutes. That is not something that I am interested in at the moment.

I might get there with one of my characters eventually. But not any time soon.

 

In short, you do you, I'll do me.

 

[Xanatos]

1 minute ago, Twisted Toon said:

In short, you do you, I'll do me.

 

I'd have more faith in this sentiment if it wasn't always attached to a critique of my playstyle.

[Twisted Toon]

10 hours ago, Xanatos said:

 

I'd have more faith in this sentiment if it wasn't always attached to a critique of my playstyle.

It wasn't a critique. It was an opinion.

 

And that's how I take all the playstyle "advice" for the game.

[Xanatos]

21 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

It wasn't a critique. It was an opinion.

 

Spoilers: it was both.

[Troo]

Soooo.. how about that test server giving out unlimited funds and insta level 50s?

[roleki]

4 minutes ago, Troo said:

Soooo.. how about that test server giving out unlimited funds and insta level 50s?

It should have a button that does it instantly.  No wait, it should do it as soon as you log in, whether you want it to or not.

[Twisted Toon]

1 hour ago, Xanatos said:

 

Spoilers: it was both.

Actually, no. It's not.

 

I never once said that Farming is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to the game, with a list of reasons why.

I just said that => I <= find it boring,

 

In that same post I even said, and I quote...

12 hours ago, Twisted Toon said:

 One person's accomplishment is another person's "Meh."

Which implies that everyone has a different idea of what is fun and what is not.

5 minutes ago, Troo said:

Soooo.. how about that test server giving out unlimited funds and insta level 50s?

I'm sure it's good for testing out how a build would feel at 50.

I haven't loaded up the test server. so, I can't say for certain.

 

Oh wait. I'm critiquing someone's testing methods... 🙄

[Xanatos]

6 minutes ago, Twisted Toon said:

I never once said that Farming is the absolute worst thing to ever happen to the game, with a list of reasons why.

I just said that => I <= find it boring,

 

That's a critique m8.

 

18 minutes ago, Troo said:

Soooo.. how about that test server giving out unlimited funds and insta level 50s?

 

I like base building. No way I'm doing that on the testy server. AE s quick enough for me! :)

[Twisted Toon]

3 hours ago, Xanatos said:

That's a critique m8.

I believe we are having a misunderstanding conserning the definition of Critique.

 

A critique is, according to the dictionary...

Quote

noun

an article or essay criticizing a literary or other work; detailed evaluation; review.

a criticism or critical comment on some problem, subject, etc.

the art or practice of criticism.

verb (used with object), cri·tiqued, cri·ti·quing.

to review or analyze critically.

Absolutely none of what I said was a criticism about farming.

 

Definition of Criticism:

Quote

noun

the act of passing judgment as to the merits of anything.

the act of passing severe judgment; censure; faultfinding.

the act or art of analyzing and evaluating or judging the quality of a literary or artistic work, musical performance, art exhibit, dramatic production, etc.

a critical comment, article, or essay; critique.

any of various methods of studying texts or documents for the purpose of dating or reconstructing them, evaluating their authenticity, analyzing their content or style, etc.: historical criticism; literary criticism.

investigation of the text, origin, etc., of literary documents, especially Biblical ones: textual criticism.

If you took what I said as a criticism about your playstyle, why is my opinion so important to you?

If my opinion doesn't matter to you, then why place so much importance on it and call it a critique?

 

If I were to tell you that I like rainy days, is that criticizing sunny days? Or, is it just stating a preference?

[Xanatos]

Ah we're at the "websters defines [word] as..." stage of online debate are we? Nice. I'm sure wikipedia links to latin argumentative fallacies will soon follow.

 

Anyway, as the definitions you provide show; "I find farming boring" is a critical comment on a subject, and therefore a critique. (And given that you were quoting me, it was not an isolated critical comment, but rather one directed towards me!)

 

I appreciate you're probably full of message board debatorial rage right now, frothing at the mouth, quoting me-line-by-line and disagreeing with everything just to Win Some Points,  so let me take a step back and give you an example to help you understand my position by means of a comparison:

 

I don't like speed TFs. I find them boring. I can express that on the forums and be fine.

Now, if I quoted someone who said they liked speed TFs, and said I found them boring, that would be me critiquing their playstyle.

 

Do you see the difference? Do you get it now? How posting things like that can harsh someone's buzz? (And why saying something like "In short, you do you, I'll do me." right after harshing someone's buzz, is massively hypocritical? You're clearly not tolerant of other peoples's playstyles if you're seeking them out and letting them know you don't like what they do.)

 

I hope that clears it up for you.

 

And please calm down with the "why is my opinion so important to you lolol" stuff. You quoted me first. I'm replying. That's how message boards work.

 

Take a second. Breathe. We're not enemies.

Edited July 10, 2020 by Xanatos

[Lines]

I guess criticism (critical criticism) requires an objective standpoint. Comparing opinions wouldn't qualify.

 

"I find farming boring" isn't the same as "farming is boring". The second is a criticism - an unfounded one by itself - the first one isn't.

 

Edit: And to add, the statement "farming is boring" is disproven the moment someone says "I find farming fun."

Edited July 10, 2020 by Lines

[Twisted Toon]

5 hours ago, Xanatos said:

Ah we're at the "websters defines [word] as..." stage of online debate are we? Nice. I'm sure wikipedia links to latin argumentative fallacies will soon follow.

 

Anyway, as the definitions you provide show; "I find farming boring" is a critical comment on a subject, and therefore a critique. (And given that you were quoting me, it was not an isolated critical comment, but rather one directed towards me!)

 

I appreciate you're probably full of message board debatorial rage right now, frothing at the mouth, quoting me-line-by-line and disagreeing with everything just to Win Some Points,  so let me take a step back and give you an example to help you understand my position by means of a comparison:

 

I don't like speed TFs. I find them boring. I can express that on the forums and be fine.

Now, if I quoted someone who said they liked speed TFs, and said I found them boring, that would be me critiquing their playstyle.

 

Do you see the difference? Do you get it now? How posting things like that can harsh someone's buzz? (And why saying something like "In short, you do you, I'll do me." right after harshing someone's buzz, is massively hypocritical? You're clearly not tolerant of other peoples's playstyles if you're seeking them out and letting them know you don't like what they do.)

 

I hope that clears it up for you.

 

And please calm down with the "why is my opinion so important to you lolol" stuff. You quoted me first. I'm replying. That's how message boards work.

 

Take a second. Breathe. We're not enemies.

Ah, i see where the issue is.

Apparently, you misunderstood my entire post.

You misconstrued an example of one person's achievement being another person's Meh, as an attack on your playstyle.

 

You see, I had used an example that you find enjoyable as an achievement and pointed out that I didn't really find it enjoyable.

Then gave some examples of what I find enjoyable as achievements, that I've fairly sure that you don't find enjoyable.

 

My main point was about this:

On 7/9/2020 at 6:27 PM, Xanatos said:

 

 I get that seeing the "mission complete" popup, or getting another level, or unlocking another power, are all dopamine hits, but that's all they are. They're not accomplishments. Anyone can do it if they sit at the computer for long enough. Leveling 1-50 the regular way is just as easy as AFK Farming, it just takes longer.

 

I realised this pretty early on with CoH, so I found my sense of reward elsewhere in the game. By creating interesting characters, telling stories with them, and all the stuff I outlined in my last post.

and this:

On 7/9/2020 at 7:42 PM, ImpousVileTerror said:

@Xanatos hammers the head of the nail quite squarely there.

 

Not to diminish the sense of enjoyment that anyone else gets from this game . . . but . . . yeah.  "Accomplishment" is a pretty bold word to throw around.   Nothing we do in this game is really more meaningful than the meaning we assign it.  What makes City of Heroes so much more, and so worthwhile is that it -can- and -does- offer rewards in more meaningful ways; deeply personal ways and mutually-beneficial social ways.

Not everyone views "Achievements" or "Accomplishments" the same way. And, there are varying degrees of accomplishments.

That is what I was talking about. It really had nothing to do with whether farming is fun or not.

 

Hope that clears it up for you.

[Xanatos]

[DoctorDitko]

Wait... Did you guys just settle a disagreement in a rational manner?

 

GMs! We need a ruling here! Is this behavior allowed?

 

 

Incidentally, I find the test server fun for "test to destruction" research. You can try to solo Dark Astoria without gaining debt or embarrassing yourself in front of the "real" Mot. Lets you know just what your original might be capable of. The new copy-to-test function is a blessing.

[Troo]

If folks haven't checked out the current Beta server there are lots of goodies and a handy Freebie Menu.

Check it out and provide the HC team with some feedback..

 

Spoiler

New power sets

• Sonic Manipulation
• Energy Melee for Scrappers

New Costume stuff

• Asymmetrical Shoulders
• Stance Selection
• Power Customisation Update

New Stories

• The Graveyard Shift (Hero Story Arc, Level 20-29)
• The Freakish Lab of Dr. Vahzilok (Villain Story Arc, Level 30-39)

Power Set changes

• Energy Melee Revamp
• Titan Weapons Revamp
• Trick Arrow Revamp
• Blaster Secondary Revamp
• Other Powers Changes
• Teleportation Pool Revamp

 

and more preview Issue 27, Page 1 currently in beta.

 

 

We can start a new character or copy over an existing one:

Copy a Character to Beta/Staging

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/beta/copy-character/

 

Freebies Menu (down in the beta chat bar)

• Get 2 Billion in $$
• Set character level
• Any IO set you could want
• Accolades
• Incarnates
• Even an auto populate enhancements to get going faster.

 

More information at:

https://forums.homecomingservers.com/forum/57-homecoming-beta/

Edited November 17, 2020 by Troo