crafting Yellow Salvage Prices

[Grouchybeast]

8 hours ago, MunkiLord said:

Proof would be done via screenshots or something? Or by trusting people to not overly inflate their e-peens? I realize that's asking a lot since people online tend to compensate, but short of having log in checks(an obvious non starter), I'm not sure how to prove such a thing.

I volunteer for verification duty.  Anyone wanting to join the SG can send the inf to me and I'll count it.  Obviously, it will take me a while to count a hundred billion infs by hand, so I might not be able to send it back right away.  But I am very trustworthy, and can provide impeccable references from several alts.

 

[GM Tock]

And green light.  Please stay on topic. 

 

We're here to play a video game, not argue etymology.  (There's other places for that.)

Edited March 11, 2020 by GM Tahquitz

[Obus Form]

Oh those miserly flippant auctioneers!

 

Price gouging hurts me viscerally, down there.

 

Would anyone on Excelsior like to form an elitist guild of COH Influencers to counter the yellow tide?

[Frunobulax]

19 hours ago, Grouchybeast said:

I volunteer for verification duty.  Anyone wanting to join the SG can send the inf to me and I'll count it.  Obviously, it will take me a while to count a hundred billion infs by hand, so I might not be able to send it back right away.  But I am very trustworthy, and can provide impeccable references from several alts.

 

And then after you count it all, you point out that a real flipper would not have inf laying around because it would be invested in bids.

 

And then you NEED to don a top hat and slowly fly away

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 3/10/2020 at 8:40 AM, Sovera said:

 

 

And I have to say it feels like trash. -Trash-. Flippers are the scum of the earth. A normal economy can be driven to the limit of what players can afford to pay until they reach a point they will rather not have it than pay for it. What do the flippers bring in to the game? -Zero-. They bring nothing. They only leech. They grab normal priced items and put them as little as 10 or 20% higher. That's it. As long as players will grumble but be in a hurry and pay the extra the profits come in.

 

 

I do want to say that as a long-time flipper, first-time caller, I'm a little hurt by this.  I can't speak for WoW, but flippers are the unheralded saviors of a player-based economy.  You can buy a near infinite amount of rare salvage at 1mm and you can sell an infinite amount at 5k.  But who is enabling you to buy it cheaper or sell it for a better price?  Flippers.  You have too many Brute ATOs and you want to make room in your inventory so you want to sell them right away.  And ten minutes later you realize that you need one for your new alt.  Who is providing you liquidity and supply?  Flippers.

 

If everything in this game were bought and sold at fixed prices in infinite numbers (and there are plenty of people who want that, I'm not one though!), then there would be no role for flippers and no point in flipping.  In a player-based economy though, they are providing bids and offers that retail doesn't want to have to deal with.

[Brutal Justice]

4 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

  Who is providing you liquidity and supply?  Flippers.

That would be farmers providing the supply.  Flippers just drive prices up

[Yomo Kimyata]

11 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

That would be farmers providing the supply.  Flippers just drive prices up

No farmer ever got a brute ATO to drop.  Not one.

[Brutal Justice]

Just now, Yomo Kimyata said:

No farmer ever got a brute ATO to drop.  Not one.

Neither has a flipper.  

[Parabola]

21 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

You can buy a near infinite amount of rare salvage at 1mm and you can sell an infinite amount at 5k.  But who is enabling you to buy it cheaper or sell it for a better price?  Flippers.

I'm not sure I'm following the reasoning here? These are the same flippers that buy things and then relist them at higher prices right?

[Doc_Scorpion]

16 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Who is providing you liquidity and supply?

Farmers, routine drops, and marketeers opening packs provide supply, flippers need not apply.  And flipper "liquidity" comes at a price, because they take their cut out of the middle.  Because they buy stuff that's already for sale and put it back out for sale...  they're not really adding anything to the market that's not already there.

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

Neither has a flipper.  

And yet I have a hundred of them sitting in inventory.

[Obus Form]

4 minutes ago, Mr.Sinister said:

Neither has a flipper.  

Interjecting briefly, I think we mis used the word "flipper".  I dont think @Yomo Kimyata is actually buying low and selling high.  Buying low/selling high only occurs for a very very small portion of COX players, with the best example coming from buying winter packs at 10 million in Dec and selling them at 25 million in January.

 

I think the majority of "auction housers" are actually "converters" converting unwanted IOs into highly sought after IOs, not "flippers" buying low and selling high. At least from the Market forums and personal experience, this is how the majority of posters there gained their billions.

Edited March 11, 2020 by Obus Form

[Yomo Kimyata]

2 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

Interjecting briefly, I think we mis used the word "flipper".  I dont think @Yomo Kimyata is actually buying low and selling high.  Buying low/selling high only occurs for a very very small portion of COX players, with the best example coming from buying winter packs at 10 million in Dec and selling them at 25 million in January.

 

I think the majority of "auction housers" are actually "converters" converting unwanted IOs into highly sought after IOs, not "flippers" buying low and selling high. At least from the Market forums and personal experience, this is how the majority of posters there gained their billions.

Oh no, I flip in the true sense of the word.  Converters make things and dump them on the market at whatever price they can get.  Buyers want things and pay whatever they want.  

 

Example:  I put in bids for large amounts of Unbreakable Guards for under 1mm.  Sooner or later I buy a large number of them.  Presumably, the sellers could post at a higher number.  I repost them at over 4mm.  Sooner or later I sell them.  Presumably, the buyers could bid at a lower number.  Am I driving the market up or down?  Don't be silly.  I'm buying things that people want to sell, and I'm selling things that people want to buy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I convert plenty too, but buying underpriced assets and selling them for fair market value is how I've made a lot of my imaginary money.

[roleki]

13 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

No farmer ever got a brute ATO to drop.  Not one.

No, but I generate about ~5 an hour by sinking excess inf into Super Packs, to keep myself at a constant level 1.9BN.

[Brutal Justice]

6 minutes ago, Obus Form said:

Interjecting briefly, I think we mis used the word "flipper".  I dont think @Yomo Kimyata is actually buying low and selling high.  Buying low/selling high only occurs for a very very small portion of COX players, with the best example coming from buying winter packs at 10 million in Dec and selling them at 25 million in January.

 

I think the majority of "auction housers" are actually "converters" converting unwanted IOs into highly sought after IOs, not "flippers" buying low and selling high. At least from the Market forums and personal experience, this is how the majority of posters there gained their billions.

I agree but it’s still the farmer providing the supply.  A converter is providing more or less a net wash in the market.  Driving down brute ATIOs while driving up controller ATIOs.  Flippers are a straight cancer.  

[_NOPE_]

Flippers have very little affect on the market, due to the existence of converters.

[Brutal Justice]

2 minutes ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Oh no, I flip in the true sense of the word.  Converters make things and dump them on the market at whatever price they can get.  Buyers want things and pay whatever they want.  

 

Example:  I put in bids for large amounts of Unbreakable Guards for under 1mm.  Sooner or later I buy a large number of them.  Presumably, the sellers could post at a higher number.  I repost them at over 4mm.  Sooner or later I sell them.  Presumably, the buyers could bid at a lower number.  Am I driving the market up or down?  Don't be silly.  I'm buying things that people want to sell, and I'm selling things that people want to buy.

 

Don't get me wrong, I convert plenty too, but buying underpriced assets and selling them for fair market value is how I've made a lot of my imaginary money.

The fair market value wouldn’t be so high if you weren’t quadrupling the prices by putting in bids for something you don’t even need.  If I need it I put in a bid for x1.  You put in multiple x10 bids to out bid my x1.  Now I can’t get it at that price because of all of your greedy bids.  You drive up prices.  

[_NOPE_]

1 minute ago, Mr.Sinister said:

The fair market value wouldn’t be so high if you weren’t quadrupling the prices by putting in bids for something you don’t even need.  If I need it I put in a bid for x1.  You put in multiple x10 bids to out bid my x1.  Now I can’t get it at that price because of all of your greedy bids.  You drive up prices.  

So... buy another lower priced IO, and convert it yourself until you get what you want.

 

Converters equalize the market.

[Brutal Justice]

4 minutes ago, The Philotic Knight said:

Flippers have very little affect on the market, due to the existence of converters.

I would say converters have very little affect on the market.  Actual buy low sell high flippers do drive up prices.  That is what this whole thread is about.  Somebody has 30k bids in for yellow salvage and have driven the price up from 1k to 15k

[Yomo Kimyata]

1 minute ago, Mr.Sinister said:

The fair market value wouldn’t be so high if you weren’t quadrupling the prices by putting in bids for something you don’t even need.  If I need it I put in a bid for x1.  You put in multiple x10 bids to out bid my x1.  Now I can’t get it at that price because of all of your greedy bids.  You drive up prices.  

I think you are looking for ghosts here, to be honest.  I'm buying Unbreakable Guards at prices well below the going rate and selling them also at below the going rate.  There is a big difference between providing liquidity and manipulating markets, and as PK has noted, it's virtually impossible to manipulate markets in HC due to converters, seeding, and fungibility.

[Obus Form]

2 minutes ago, The Philotic Knight said:

So... buy another lower priced IO, and convert it yourself until you get what you want.

 

Converters equalize the market.

I'm taking that picture for future use here 😃

[Brutal Justice]

2 minutes ago, The Philotic Knight said:

So... buy another lower priced IO, and convert it yourself until you get what you want.

 

Converters equalize the market.

Converters equalize.  Buy low sell high flippers do not

[_NOPE_]

Buy low, sell high flippers have virtually no effect on the long term market. You can still still get what you want, you just have to be smart enough to figure out how to use the tools that are at your disposal for getting what you want. If you can't figure out how to make the market work to your advantage... the problem isn't in the market, my friend.

 

There is nothing wrong with the HC market, period. As @Yomo Kimyata mentioned above, the way the HC market is right now, it's literally impossible to actually affect anyone in a truly negative way, unless they are only looking at ONE WAY to get what they want.

[Brutal Justice]

1 minute ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

I think you are looking for ghosts here, to be honest.  I'm buying Unbreakable Guards at prices well below the going rate and selling them also at below the going rate.  There is a big difference between providing liquidity and manipulating markets, and as PK has noted, it's virtually impossible to manipulate markets in HC due to converters, seeding, and fungibility.

Lol. You’re inflating the going rate by flooding the market with low bids.  If your 100 bids were not in there do you really think the price would go up?  That’s 100 other people who could buy that IO at 1 mill.  I have a 1 percent chance of getting that IO over you at the same price with my 1 bid.  If you put in 100 bids to up your chances and resold what you didn’t need for the price you paid, then you wouldn’t be driving the prices up.  

[Obus Form]

1 minute ago, Mr.Sinister said:

Converters equalize.  Buy low sell high flippers do not

To be fair, back on top of yellow salvage price increase, there are clearly more profitable ways to make Influence than flipping yellow salvage. <--- generally accepted as truth in the Market forums.

 

If someone were to spend all 200 slots x 10 salvage (2000 pieces) per character to drive up yellow salvage, and for EACH piece of yellow salvage...that person is a paragon of diligence/hard work. 

 

More likely, however, someone who has the agency to make Influence by converting and/or flipping, will not target yellow salvage because there is so much more money to be made flipping/converting IOs than yellow salvage. 

 

TLDR: While not impossible, it is almost silly to assume that one or several people are really flipping yellow salvage to make a profit.  If one had the finances/time to do it, they would have likely already made their billions via IOs and is playing with yellow salvage for funsies.