Incarnate Arcs: EBs to AVs

[Unedjis]

Hi all,

 

I've done a brief search and nothing came up, so I'm starting a topic. Please merge if there is a similar request already.

 

One thing that keeps bugging me whenever I get a toon to 50+ is that the incarnate content that is supposed to be oh-so-tough is actually absolutely trivial, even compared to some regular arcs and TFs. One reason for that is that once you're +3 level shifted, the maximum difficulty you can play at is an effective +1x8. I don't want to discuss increasing the max level of either players or mobs here.

 

Instead I would like to ask if it would as simple as I'm imagining it to make most of the named Elite Bosses in the Incarnate Arcs (Heather and following) actual, real Arch Villains. So many of the missions are labeled as "extremely difficult do complete alone" by the respective content, and then all you get is a  pushover EB at the end rather than a full-fledged AV, as you would expect. I'm talking about guys like Blue Steel, Romy, and most importantly the Sentinel, but also the Mother Keress. All of those should, by rights, be AVs, but for some reason they're not, and it feels wrong and disappointing, and I frankly do not understand why the devs back then did it like that. And if players still don't want to fight AVs solo, they can turn that option off, just as it is with any other content.

 

Would that be something the HC team could look into? Knowing nothing about how the game works in this (or any) respect, I imagine it wouldn't be very hard to give them lots of HP, more damage and regeneration, and flag them as AVs. But of course I could be wrong.

 

Cheers, and thank you all for your hard work!

Unedjis (Reunion)

[Razor Cure]

I agree that the arcs 'can' be easy, especially if you are already +3.

But not everyone would be +3 before doing them. Assume a fresh 50, done the incarnate arc, nothing unlocked. Maybe a person who doesnt like iTrials (the lag, the people), so they set out to do the incarnate content solo. There is Number 6, Belladona V, and the Da arcs. The first 2 only give one salvage reward each, so there is a very very slim chance of having ANY t33s built after those.  The DA arcs have maybe..6-8? rewards, so still rather unlikely you will get to +3. In fact, I did the fresh 50 da run with a friend, and by the end I think we may have been +2, and that is with already having made our alpha (by WTF's and MSR's).

Obviously you'd get more iXp running full teams, but not everyone wants that either.

[DR_Mechano]

10 hours ago, Unedjis said:

Hi all,

 

I've done a brief search and nothing came up, so I'm starting a topic. Please merge if there is a similar request already.

 

One thing that keeps bugging me whenever I get a toon to 50+ is that the incarnate content that is supposed to be oh-so-tough is actually absolutely trivial, even compared to some regular arcs and TFs. One reason for that is that once you're +3 level shifted, the maximum difficulty you can play at is an effective +1x8. I don't want to discuss increasing the max level of either players or mobs here.

 

Instead I would like to ask if it would as simple as I'm imagining it to make most of the named Elite Bosses in the Incarnate Arcs (Heather and following) actual, real Arch Villains. So many of the missions are labeled as "extremely difficult do complete alone" by the respective content, and then all you get is a  pushover EB at the end rather than a full-fledged AV, as you would expect. I'm talking about guys like Blue Steel, Romy, and most importantly the Sentinel, but also the Mother Keress. All of those should, by rights, be AVs, but for some reason they're not, and it feels wrong and disappointing, and I frankly do not understand why the devs back then did it like that. And if players still don't want to fight AVs solo, they can turn that option off, just as it is with any other content.

 

Would that be something the HC team could look into? Knowing nothing about how the game works in this (or any) respect, I imagine it wouldn't be very hard to give them lots of HP, more damage and regeneration, and flag them as AVs. But of course I could be wrong.

 

Cheers, and thank you all for your hard work!

Unedjis (Reunion)

Yeah as mentioned above your approaching them from a 'already at max incarnate level' situation. These arcs weren't actually meant to be done in conjuction with iTrials. They were specifically designed as the solo path. This is why once you complete all of them a new NPC turns up that offers 2 emp merits per week to complete the entire arc again. Also you have to remember that these arcs were designed before we had the HC 'incarnate stuff on vet levels'. So for many these were the only way of getting Incarnate stoofs if you didn't do the iTrials.

[MTeague]

If it's an OPTION, via Notoriety settings, I'm fine with that.  Don't force it on a low-damage controller or defender.

[Yomo Kimyata]

Possibly a topic for a different thread, but I'd love it if there were an intermediate level between EB (which are generally easily soloable) and AV. 

[Unedjis]

On 3/5/2020 at 1:09 AM, DR_Mechano said:

Yeah as mentioned above your approaching them from a 'already at max incarnate level' situation. These arcs weren't actually meant to be done in conjuction with iTrials. They were specifically designed as the solo path. This is why once you complete all of them a new NPC turns up that offers 2 emp merits per week to complete the entire arc again. Also you have to remember that these arcs were designed before we had the HC 'incarnate stuff on vet levels'. So for many these were the only way of getting Incarnate stoofs if you didn't do the iTrials.

Yes, but none of this is a reason why the bosses that are supposed to be AVs (from the way they're built up) should not have the *option* to be AVs, if the player so desires. Of course it would have to be just as optional as with any other content. I just can't understand why the devs originally didn't include the option, because not everyone is gonna solo the arcs, and a full team of 8 will kill an EB literally in under three seconds. It is just inconsistent with the rest of the game design, and I still maintain that it would be an easy "fix" to provide an appropriate challenge to those who wish to have one. Those who don't, set it to EB and it'll be as before.

[nihilii]

Also, the EB/AV in Incarnate arcs is just inconsistent. Number 6 has the Hamidon manifestations as AVs - and makes you fight several of them, even. Belladonna gives you an AV to fight with Chimera, and he levelshifts. There's the Tsoo AV in DA arcs who also levelshifts. But then too many AV-level enemies like Shadowhunter are stuck as EB and sometimes get killed by Pendragon before you even get a chance to step into the fight.

Like @Unedjis points out, this is a suggestion with no downside. For all of you who prefer to fight EBs, setting your notoriety that way will let you do so (as it does in most of the game), up until you're in a large team.

[DrRocket]

I may have issues with your suggestion...

 

1) The game is wired to control the level of the mob by size of the team. so your suggestion may call for code changes

2) As noted by another poster, not everyone is level 53

3) Different Arch-types have different soloing ability, thus raising an EB to AV may render the mission impossible for a tank who may not have the DPS to dent the AV for instance

4) The use of notoriety, I think, would let you choose to have an AV instead of an EB

 

It would seem to me a more complex mission parameter GUI at the issuer of the mission would make sense to me, this way each player could adjust to their needs or preferences

 

V/R

[Vanden]

Shifting a base EB to an AV could potentially make them easier; AVs only have Boss-level mez protections, but their Purple Triangles make them nearly mez-immune most of the time. EBs, however, have higher mez protection than Bosses or AVs and typically take three stacks of mez to be affected. Presumably there's no way for the game to give an EB shifted to AV rank purple triangles, just as the game doesn't strip the purple triangles from an AV downgraded to EB. With the lower inherent mez protection of the rank, an upgraded EB would be mez fodder for pretty much any character with decent stuns or holds.

[Caulderone]

Another option that might be easier to implement than this would be to have an option to disable level shift and incarnate shifts in the Incarnate menu(s).

 

This would also give us back the option to do +4 vs normal mobs, too.

Edited March 17, 2020 by Caulderone