Infinitum Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, biostem said: Which is kind of like saying DA has KD/KB protection because you can take acro or slot an IO... not really the same thing. It's such an easy workaround for either. There's no justification to not do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Wavicle said: I'm not saying it has to be changed to do something different. Just buffed. Remove the Per Enemy end cost. That might be enough. That would make it way too OP and lessen the use of transference then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
biostem Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Infinitum said: It's such an easy workaround for either. There's no justification to not do it. That is not my point. Saying that a power or a set has an effect, when in fact it is the result of an outside/separate power or IO effect, is simply incorrect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leogunner Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 5 minutes ago, Wavicle said: Yea, it does. And I expect it will eventually happen. Repel, Detention Field/Sonic Cage, a couple other powers here and there, will almost certainly get improved at some point by the HC team. Why are you so certain of that? I find it intriguing to see a "nerf something popular" thread. I'm not against it (probably the opposite) I just don't know what angle you're working from. Why need it now? Personally speaking, the synergy that kinetics presents within the set alone is very high. The upkeep of its effects has been made less over time and coupled with IOs, it presents a trifecta of offensive support. It'd be like sonic resonance being capable of capping all damage res types, buffing max HP of all team members and pumping out constant +absorb and +Regen. With everyone running maneuvers, you can cap def ontop of that for free to have an unkillable team. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavicle Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Infinitum said: That would make it way too OP and lessen the use of transference then. What if the base end cost was increased, but the per enemy cost removed? Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Wavicle said: What if the base end cost was increased, but the per enemy cost removed? Or maybe leave it alone because its working as intended now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavicle Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 17 minutes ago, Infinitum said: But repel doesn't need a buff, FS doesn't need a nerf. Its all functioning as intended. just to be clear, I'm not saying it isn't functioning as intended. I'm saying the intention wasn't that well thought out. Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavicle Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 Repel is one of the least taken powers in the game. I understand you like it as is, but most people do not. Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 2 minutes ago, Leogunner said: Why are you so certain of that? I find it intriguing to see a "nerf something popular" thread. I'm not against it (probably the opposite) I just don't know what angle you're working from. Why need it now? Personally speaking, the synergy that kinetics presents within the set alone is very high. The upkeep of its effects has been made less over time and coupled with IOs, it presents a trifecta of offensive support. It'd be like sonic resonance being capable of capping all damage res types, buffing max HP of all team members and pumping out constant +absorb and +Regen. With everyone running maneuvers, you can cap def ontop of that for free to have an unkillable team. I think it's because I posted in the nerf farsight thread how time wasn't a runaway pick in the latest homecoming by the numbers thread. Kinetics was in every category though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Wavicle said: Repel is one of the least taken powers in the game. I understand you like it as is, but most people do not. That's because knockback is greatly misused and misunderstood. Even before sudden accel I was rocking repel to the chagrin of most spawns. Now with sudden accel you are giving up a ton of mitigation by not taking repel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavicle Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 minute ago, Infinitum said: I think it's because I posted in the nerf farsight thread how time wasn't a runaway pick in the latest homecoming by the numbers thread. Kinetics was in every category though. nah, I've thought FS needed a nerf and the rest of Kin was weak since like 2006. Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavicle Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Infinitum said: That's because knockback is greatly misused and misunderstood. Even before sudden accel I was rocking repel to the chagrin of most spawns. Now with sudden accel you are giving up a ton of mitigation by not taking repel. That's a fair point. 1 Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 Just now, Wavicle said: nah, I've thought FS needed a nerf and the rest of Kin was weak since like 2006. That's crazy talk. Sorry you will never get me to agree on that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavicle Posted March 4, 2020 Author Share Posted March 4, 2020 (edited) 3 minutes ago, Infinitum said: That's crazy talk. Sorry you will never get me to agree on that. ok. Like I said from the start, I don't really expect any of this to happen. Unlike disallowing Power Boost from working on Farsight, which I completely expect to happen. EDIT: But we can keep that in the other thread, lol Edited March 4, 2020 by Wavicle 1 Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Wavicle said: ok. Like I said from the start, I don't really expect any of this to happen. Unlike disallowing Power Boost from working on Farsight, which I completely expect to happen. EDIT: But we can keep that in the other thread, lol Im not sure it will. Mainly because its a non issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarverse Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 27 minutes ago, Infinitum said: It already is with a sudden accel proc. Hardly. Without the Sudden Acceleration, it knocks back dependably. With it, the knock down is very hit or miss. if it was more dependable it would be much better, but sadly you either deal with it or don't pick up Repel at all for me. SFX and Music Mods by Solarverse (Consolidated) WP/EM God Mode Tank Guide and Build Help Support the Return of Missing Code for Sound Files! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindDemon21 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 1 hour ago, Wavicle said: I have no illusions that this will ever happen, but here's my suggestion: Lower the +Damage of Fulcrum Shift. Add +Regen +Damage and a small +Defense bonus to Inertial Reduction. It'll never happen, but I think it would be an improvement. EDIT: Instead of +Regen, give IR an amount of +Dam almost equal to what is taken from FS. This keeps overall performance almost identical to current, but moves some of that power earlier so the set isn't so reliant on FS. If any changes to kinetics, I'd like to see fulcrums damage lowered only if they increase the -damage it does to make it more of a safe power, and maybe add a tiny bit of -defense to it so we could add some defense debuff and more importantly accurate defense debuff sets so we can slot it better. I don't think adding that to IR is a good idea cause right now it's one of the only skippable powers. I do think they should change ID to resist all but psy, and make it last 4 minutes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Razor Cure Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 7 minutes ago, Leogunner said: Personally speaking, the synergy that kinetics presents within the set alone is very high. The upkeep of its effects has been made less over time and coupled with IOs, it presents a trifecta of offensive support. It'd be like sonic resonance being capable of capping all damage res types, buffing max HP of all team members and pumping out constant +absorb and +Regen. With everyone running maneuvers, you can cap def ontop of that for free to have an unkillable team. Curious Leo. Are you saying that Kin +IOs is the equal of 'super' sonic res (like sonic if it performed like in your above example). If that is the case..it should be pretty clear that Kinetics is overpowered? Change that..FS is OP. Way back on Live, I did a rough (very rough) comparison of the T9 powers in support sets. Basically no set came close to the equivalent of FS to fully cap an entire teams damage, every mob, all the time. Granted, this way before sets like Time and Nature, but i do find it interesting that both time and nature have totally awesome T9s (huge +damn, rech, to hit, heal, etc..all great effects with big values)...which cannot be perma without a huge investment of IOs. There is only a few of the older sets that have T9s that can come close. COld dom and Heat Loss (also needs a lot to get perma, Pain, which is 'only' a single target buff, therm which also needs a lot to get Perma. Maybe a few of the others. But the point is, no t9 comes close to the power of FS. Melee T9s are mostly useless, but at least they FEEL godly. Same as most t9 attacks. I'd prefer some adjustment of the T9s in other sets, but I can still admit FS is too good. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WindDemon21 Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 3 minutes ago, Razor Cure said: I'd prefer some adjustment of the T9s in other sets, but I can still admit FS is too good. Except when it's not a full mob, fulcrum shift falls much behind some of the other tier 9s for what it does. Granted it's still good, but it loses it's flavor there. Not to mention that kinetics in general has almost nothing to help keep the actual team alive compared to other sets (not nothing, but compared to others it has the overall lowest safety rating compared to them so that is the tradeoff). 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 15 minutes ago, Solarverse said: Hardly. Without the Sudden Acceleration, it knocks back dependably. With it, the knock down is very hit or miss. if it was more dependable it would be much better, but sadly you either deal with it or don't pick up Repel at all for me. Are you slotting with more than just the proc? I am usually 3 or 4 slotted and it knocks them all down. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nzer Posted March 4, 2020 Share Posted March 4, 2020 39 minutes ago, Infinitum said: That's crazy talk. Sorry you will never get me to agree on that. Surely you'll at least agree that a teamwide 250% damage increase is too much for one person to provide, and that toning it down would help, if only slightly, with the problems this game has with excessive damage dealing potential. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarverse Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Infinitum said: Are you slotting with more than just the proc? I am usually 3 or 4 slotted and it knocks them all down. Holy crap. I'm going to have to try that. Didn't think more than one would change anything. Thanks for the tip. 1 SFX and Music Mods by Solarverse (Consolidated) WP/EM God Mode Tank Guide and Build Help Support the Return of Missing Code for Sound Files! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Infinitum Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 51 minutes ago, nzer said: Surely you'll at least agree that a teamwide 250% damage increase is too much for one person to provide, and that toning it down would help, if only slightly, with the problems this game has with excessive damage dealing potential. Nah. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solarverse Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 1 hour ago, Infinitum said: Are you slotting with more than just the proc? I am usually 3 or 4 slotted and it knocks them all down. For whatever reason, it's not letting me slot with more than one. How were you able to get more than one slotted? SFX and Music Mods by Solarverse (Consolidated) WP/EM God Mode Tank Guide and Build Help Support the Return of Missing Code for Sound Files! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troo Posted March 5, 2020 Share Posted March 5, 2020 2 hours ago, biostem said: Change it to a PBAoE knockdown toggle. Knock Up might be preferred 1 "Homecoming is not perfect but it is still better than the alternative.. at least so far" - Unknown (Wise words Unknown!) Si vis pacem, para bellum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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