If you could change the sentinel (or not) which would you choose?(Poll/Opinions)

[Bill Z Bubba]

For the record, I used ultimate insps when I soloed a max diff ITF with my scrapper. Had to. That autohit fluffy is NOT nice to a defense based character. Sure was easy taking it out on the sent though. Just hovered and blasted away. It'd come in, I'd move. No biggie. No worries. Take longer? Sure. Who TF cares? I don't.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

citation needed*

 

If they are on par with other AT's then how would they be overpowered?

If they're just on par then they don't need a buff, do they?

Edited June 11, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[nihilii]

15 hours ago, Zerethon said:

(Seriously, i've seen people posting builds that don't have travel powers until like level 44+ because they ONLY do level 50+ content)

It could also be that Ninja Run is available to anyone as soon as level 1. My builds never take travel powers unless I have extra power slots, and even then it tends to be to mule a Winter's Gift IO or knockback protection.

 

[Frostweaver]

2 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

When properly built, yes. My sent is on par with my brute on ST damage output. Right around the 4 min pylon time. Where the scrapper is around 3min. And the claws/bio scrapper around 2 mins.

 

Soooo way way way faster? Meh.

mmm... I hate to argue with you bill, but... well... My favorite sentinel dishes out an 800-1200 point 10 target nuke every 20 seconds, a 300 point aoe every 5 seconds,  and a weird hopping disintegrate effect that cranks up the damage on 4 targets by about 20% as well as dropping their damage resistance by another 5%, which keeps hopping around and causing aoe DOT's as I single target them.

My ST dps is only a little lower than most scrappers (-50 total resist) against Pylons... but my aoe Dps is a LOT higher than most scrappers... I think the only exception might be claws, since scrapper claws is one of the best dps sets in the game vs. nonresistant enemies.

But when you are talking outside of Pylon tests.... Nope, I cannot agree that scrappers are faster against non-pylon content than sentinels. is there some kind of test we can run?

[Frostweaver]

Just now, nihilii said:

It could also be that Ninja Run is available to anyone as soon as level 1. My builds never take travel powers unless I have extra power slots, and even then it tends to be to mule a Winter's Gift IO or knockback protection.

 

yep, a bunch of my builds that find ninja and beast run 'appropriate' never bother with a travel power... and I get flack all the time

 

Why on earth would a 'tiger girl' savage/EA brute (with tons of stealth even at low levels) get crap for using beast run instead of sj? I have NO idea... but when i post a build where I intentionally skipped a travel power, that's the first thing most people notice... even if I have upwards of super speed in speed bonuses. and can beast jump around grandville easily.

[Galaxy Brain]

5 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

If they're just on par then they don't need a buff, do they?

They are also not overpowered in that regard.

 

It also does not mean they couldn't use a buff to their user-friendliness.  I think everyone is in agreement that Opportunity is clunky as an inherent no?

[Bill Z Bubba]

8 minutes ago, Frostweaver said:

mmm... I hate to argue with you bill, but... well... My favorite sentinel dishes out an 800-1200 point 10 target nuke every 20 seconds, a 300 point aoe every 5 seconds,  and a weird hopping disintegrate effect that cranks up the damage on 4 targets by about 20% as well as dropping their damage resistance by another 5%, which keeps hopping around and causing aoe DOT's as I single target them.

My ST dps is only a little lower than most scrappers (-50 total resist) against Pylons... but my aoe Dps is a LOT higher than most scrappers... I think the only exception might be claws, since scrapper claws is one of the best dps sets in the game vs. nonresistant enemies.

But when you are talking outside of Pylon tests.... Nope, I cannot agree that scrappers are faster against non-pylon content than sentinels. is there some kind of test we can run?

I play claws. My aoe attack chain on the scrapper is FU/Spin/Shockwave w/KD/repeat. His aoe damage ain't hurtin.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Bill Z Bubba

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

They are also not overpowered in that regard.

 

It also does not mean they couldn't use a buff to their user-friendliness.  I think everyone is in agreement that Opportunity is clunky as an inherent no?

I am not in agreement. I ignore it just as I do critical hits. Or fury. Or defiance. I click buttons and stuff falls down.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Here's my current fire/bio sent build. Please note that fly is taken at lvl 8.

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

David Merlinson: Level 50 Magic Sentinel
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Flares -- SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprSntWar-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprSntWar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprSntWar-Rchg/+Absorb(29)
Level 1: Hardened Carapace -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(11), TtnCtn-ResDam(11), TtnCtn-EndRdx(27), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(27), UnbGrd-Max HP%(43)
Level 2: Fire Ball -- Rgn-Dmg(A), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(3), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(9), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(23), Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(34), Rgn-Knock%(43)
Level 4: Inexhaustible -- NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx(A), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(5), NmnCnv-Heal(5), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13), PrfShf-EndMod(15), PrfShf-End%(15)
Level 6: Blaze -- SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprOppStr-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprOppStr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), SprOppStr-Rchg/+Opportunity(29)
Level 8: Fly -- Flight-I(A)
Level 10: Environmental Adaptation -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(43)
Level 12: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(13)
Level 14: Hover -- Rct-ResDam%(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(45), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(46)
Level 16: Ablative Carapace -- Mrc-Heal/Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(17)
Level 18: Blazing Blast -- Apc-Dmg/Rchg(A), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(19), Apc-Acc/Rchg(19), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(23), Apc-Dam%(31), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(31)
Level 20: Aim -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(39), GssSynFr--Build%(48)
Level 22: Adaptation
Level 24: Rebuild DNA -- Mrc-Heal/Rchg(A), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(31), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(33)
Level 26: Rain of Fire -- SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(A), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprFrzBls-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(46), SprFrzBls-Rchg/ImmobProc(50)
Level 28: Boxing -- Empty(A)
Level 30: Tough -- TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx(A), TtnCtn-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(33), TtnCtn-ResDam(45), TtnCtn-EndRdx(48)
Level 32: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(33), LucoftheG-Def(37), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48)
Level 35: Genomic Evolution -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(36), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(36), GldArm-3defTpProc(36)
Level 38: Parasitic Leech -- ThfofEss-Heal/Rchg(A), ThfofEss-Acc/Heal(39)
Level 41: Inferno -- Arm-Dmg/Rchg(A), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Arm-Acc/Rchg(42), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(42), Arm-Dam%(50), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(50)
Level 44: Athletic Regulation -- HO:Micro(A)
Level 47: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 49: Afterburner -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Opportunity
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Prv-Absorb%(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(39), Mrc-Rcvry+(40)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-EndMod/Rchg(40), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(40), PrfShf-End%(45)
Level 22: Defensive Adaptation
Level 22: Efficient Adaptation
Level 22: Offensive Adaptation
------------

 

 

[oldskool]

14 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Tossing this out there: Do we know the values of buffs you get for each opportunity? Would it be broken if both were combined to one opportunity buff?

 

I ask as it often seems like people get hung up on that part when trying out the AT, and it "feels" like you need both the T1 and T2 in order to function properly. On top of that, if you say miss with one while trying to proc Offense or Defense, you have a dilemma where you either wait to try again or "settle" for the other buff. Making it just 1 buff lets players pick either tier freely, and gives them 2 chances to proc the buff if they take both to mitigate misses.

All attacks impose -5% resistance and defense.  This does not stack higher from the same Sentinel since the Sentinel's inherent is the source.  This should stack with other Sentinels though as they should be their own source.  I haven't used the enemy scanner during grouping though because I really don't care that much.  Still, the -5% can be found if you scanned a target while solo.  That's easy to confirm and it is listed in the power tool tip too.  

 

Opportunity activation imposes a -20% resistance debuff on top of the basic one for 15 seconds.  This is the source of the giant target under enemies.  The color of this is determined by whatever color you make your powers.  I've used Red for Offensive and Green for Defensive before.  

Opportunity meter tends to be about 8pts for T1 powers, and roughly 13pts for all other single target powers.  AoE powers have some variance between 14-21 pts and T9's don't seem uniform either.  At one point I was registering only 1pt for PBAoE T9s but many of them now seem to register 25-30pts.  

 

Offensive Opportunity is somewhat variable.  Offensive Opportunity creates a proc-like damage effect that is based on a percentage of the parent power.  So T1's generally do the lowest at about 15% and then it scales up on other powers to around 25%.  So a T1 will likely add a separate damage effect of 8 points and other powers would add 20-25% of whatever the base power did.  This separate damage is effected by the resistance of a target.  I've seen it go up when my debuffs are in place, and go down against tougher enemies.  

Defensive Opportunity seems fairly static.  I've seem to consistently gain around 20-24pts of health per hit and small portions of endurance (2-4 pts) per hit. 

Would it be overpowered to include both effects at once?  I don't think so.  They're kinda neat, but they aren't that strong.  Having Offensive more consistently accessible would be a general damage improvement, but it has more limitations compared to Defiance.  

[Bill Z Bubba]

13 minutes ago, Frostweaver said:

Nope, I cannot agree that scrappers are faster against non-pylon content than sentinels. is there some kind of test we can run?

As for this, sure! Go run 5 repeatables at max diff in DA with your best scrapper and your best sent, 100% clear all. Notate the time. Whichever has the best time wins.

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, oldskool said:

Would it be overpowered to include both effects at once?  I don't think so.  They're kinda neat, but they aren't that strong.  Having Offensive more consistently accessible would be a general damage improvement, but it has more limitations compared to Defiance.  

You can get both on occasion with fire if you use fire blast right after flares. It's a bug.

[nihilii]

4 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I am not in agreement. I ignore it just as I do critical hits. Or fury. Or defiance. I click buttons and stuff falls down.

If we're arguing clunkiness, I'd go one step further and say I find Domination clunkier as an inherent. In my scrapperlock, I frequently forget to use it - and then I have to build the whole bar again.

 

Inherents that work passively are much more fun for me than having to micromanage an extra click. It saddens me to see the number of people who want to turn Opportunity as an extra click. I'd rather see the active part combine its effects + tag whoever you're attacking while the bar is full (so you can switch targets and/or not worry about your target dying 1 hit in) + work with any attack power.

[Galaxy Brain]

4 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

I am not in agreement. I ignore it just as I do critical hits. Or fury. Or defiance. I click buttons and stuff falls down.

Sure, but unlike those inherents there are multiple visual queues and 2 different options to pick from that offer distinct benefits to you as you fight. This makes it much more active and "distracting" to many players I reckon, something more like Stalker Assassination than Scrapper crits. 

 

Sure you could ignore both and just throw attacks out but that is also ignoring a chunk of their intended gameplay.

 

3 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

As for this, sure! Go run 5 repeatables at max diff in DA with your best scrapper and your best sent, 100% clear all. Notate the time. Whichever has the best time wins.

It'd be better to use an AE map to control variables that could affect the time like the map layout.

[oldskool]

Just now, Bill Z Bubba said:

You can get both on occasion with fire if you use fire blast right after flares. It's a bug.

I know.  Its not the only bug either.  Some AoE powers count meter per enemy struck and in turn double dip on Defensive Opportunity. 

Assault Rifle Flamethrower, every single AoE in Sonic Blast, Beam Rifle's Refractor Beam, and so on.  Not all AoEs do this.  Dual Pistols most certain doesn't and Radiation's didn't.  

[Bill Z Bubba]

2 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Sure, but unlike those inherents there are multiple visual queues and 2 different options to pick from that offer distinct benefits to you as you fight. This makes it much more active and "distracting" to many players I reckon, something more like Stalker Assassination than Scrapper crits. 

 

Sure you could ignore both and just throw attacks out but that is also ignoring a chunk of their intended gameplay.

There's two different options IF you take both T1 and T2 attacks. Something I've stopped doing on my sents. I take whichever one is the higher DPA and ignore the other.

 

3 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

It'd be better to use an AE map to control variables that could affect the time like the map layout.

Agreed.

[Wavicle]

I don't have any issue with someone else wanting to skip travel powers.

But I wouldn't skip them myself because they are one of the most fun parts of the game for me.

I would not listen to the build advice of someone who insisted I was gimping myself by spending a power pick on a travel power, not that anyone here has said such a thing.

[Galaxy Brain]

2 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

There's two different options IF you take both T1 and T2 attacks. Something I've stopped doing on my sents. I take whichever one is the higher DPA and ignore the other.

 

Fair, but that also means that "optimal" play ignores a chunk of the intended gameplay :< 

[Wavicle]

2 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

There's two different options IF you take both T1 and T2 attacks. Something I've stopped doing on my sents. I take whichever one is the higher DPA and ignore the other.

 

Agreed.

On my sentinel builds I have simply been skipping the T2. USUALLY the T1 seems to be higher dpa, but I guess not always.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Fair, but that also means that "optimal" play ignores a chunk of the intended gameplay :< 

Isn't that true for many toons?

[Galaxy Brain]

9 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Isn't that true for many toons?

*Kinda*, but rarely if ever does it involve the inherent that is present in every power combo. 

 

Edit:

 

Like, you don't see dominators hold off on domination for more effect or stalkers NOT using assassin's focus. Sentinels have the Offensive and Defensive opportunities at their disposal, dropping one of them seems "wrong".

Edited June 11, 2020 by Galaxy Brain

[Bill Z Bubba]

Total side note: I like yall and have enjoyed this conversation.

[Wavicle]

1 minute ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Total side note: I like yall and have enjoyed this conversation.

Likewise.

[Frostweaver]

13 minutes ago, Wavicle said:

Everyone who has played the AT thinks that it's way off base to say Scrappers and Stalkers do way more damage?? Then why does this thread even exist? What a ridiculous thing to say.

which goes right back to my original point that the problem with sentinels is perception and build expertise. Both things that I am trying to correct.

This thread exists to ask a question. And you notice the first answer is 'It's fine as it is, no change neccessary', and of the other answers, 2 are simply quality of life improvements (not buffs) and one is 'whatever the heck', and a lot of the suggestions are merely minor tweaks...Most of the complaints are about the necessity of taking BOTH tier 1 and tier 2 attacks to take advantage of the opportunity mechanic.

But hey, you are the secret genius/king. So why don't you show us all how we are all so wrong for finding a great AT from something you KNOW is uselessly broken and worthless... after all, you are the only real intelligence here, the rest of us are all fools.

[Wavicle]

It is true that some part of my argument is not based on numbers but on "feel".

I frequently team with a couple of RL friends. Recently I did that with me on a Water/Regen Sentinel and my friends on a Defender and a Controller.

It really felt like fights were not going fast enough, compared to when I played my Scrapper with the same team.

Not that people were dying as a result, but simply that the contribution of my Sentinel was less than that of my Scrapper.

EDIT:
BTW This was in the mid 30s, not level 50, but my attacks are heavily slotted. Sure, things could be improved with procs, but that shouldn't be the baseline for performance.

Edited June 11, 2020 by Wavicle