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Why is MIND CONTROL so weak?

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Posted (edited)

The powers LOOK like they would be amazing, it covers a lot of control areas... but actual performance is lack-luster.

 

I'm guessing it's the lack of an AoE containment spam (e.g. immob) so building containment one at a time is just tedious and mind-numbing (pun intended).  That coupled with some not-so-fast cast times (Domination being the exception).  Everything takes too long to do for the damage you get, is what it feels like for me.

 

It's pretty universally accepted that Telekenisis (TK) is so BAD that it's an "auto-skip" power.  OK, fine... but where's the "great" power?  I mean, an AoE confuse is pretty cool, but why not go Plant Control and have a better version (albeit a cone)?

 

I'd love to see Telekinesis worked into an AoE immob to help build containment.  Maybe a cone or TAoE version of Levitate, with a immob at the end?  Mass Levitate!  

 

I don't know, one would think that a PSI damage would be great in the early/mid game, like it seems to be for other psi damage sets, but it sure feels very weak (I'm early 30's but have slotted out the three single-target powers with damage sets).  It's just not as "blasty" as gravity, nor as "controllery" as Earth.

 

Earth is so "controllery" that I get there's very little damage it does.  That's a fair trade.  Gravity isn't very controllery, so it does damage; again, seems fine.  Mind does neither control nor damage (yes, yes, it has all those AoE control powers).  Problem with Mind is the AoE's that do no damage have far too long a recharge.  Make them mini-nukes (the hold, at least) or something.  If the recharge was lowered on the SLEEP, that would be something.  Ghetto AoE containment (for a millisecond, as your team ruins it by attacking with all their damaging AoE's).

 

It's just a frustrating set for me.  Maybe I play the game too fast, as it reminds me of traps... slow and boring, but at least traps ended up doing awesome things...

 

I'll keep at it, fully slot up the AoE's (the Fear Cone is the only really decent power, but it's recharge is so long!).

 

Why does it have such horribly long recharges all over?

 

/rant

 

Please look at helping this set.  I understand it's awesome on a Dominator (I've heard), but on a Controller, it kind of sucks.

Edited by r0y
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Mind control definitely doesn’t suck, it has great controls and a nice attack chain of dominate, mesmerise, levitate - which when slotted for damage can be very effective. 
 

You’re right that it does lack a reliable way to set up containment, and Plant did sort of steal Mind’s ultimate power and turned into a lower power level, faster recharging version. Personally I felt it was always a mistake for them to do that with Plant (for both Mind and Plant), but that ship has sailed so far it’s hardly worth discussing. 
 

There were a few ideas on how to improve Mind Control discussed recently. From adding a no-damage immobilise to mass hypnosis, so if they did wake up they were still rooted. Or making some change to TK, and reducing the cooldown or Mass Confusion. TK isn’t auto skip, but pool powers are good too so vets will always look for something skippable and TK is a bit niche.
 

Really the main issue is just containment. If fears provided containment damage it would also help Mind a lot too. 
 

I did main Mind Control on live and always enjoyed the set a lot. It’s not for everyone though.

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I put out a few suggestions regarding improvements to Mind Control in the Suggestions section of the forums a little while back. They were definitely made with Controllers as the main priority, providing a means of setting up Containment more reliably, along with improvements to Telekinesis, and other things such as powers that deserve a number pass.

 

I also proposed a method of providing Mind Control with some additional damage - useful for Controllers, less so for Dominators. And of course a look over at Mesmerize and Mass Hypnosis, and some improvements regarding them.

 

I wouldn't call Mind Control a bad powerset; there's plenty it can still do after all. But it's definitely quite overshadowed, and a look over its powers would be nice. Its Sleep powers are a little conditional, and would be better in a game that doesn't have other means of taking enemies out of the fight such as Holds.

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There are definitely are some adjustments that could be made to Mind Control to ‘modernise’ it, if you like. For example switching Mass Confuse and TK’s place in the set, and altering the recharge of Mass Confuse so it is available more often. TK would then be the ultimate power, and there is a lot of potential to make it something really fun whilst keeping with the Telekinetic theme. 
 

I was just thinking about sleep powers whilst walking my dogs (I’m crazy I know!).

 

I think the control set sleep powers could really have secondary effects tagged into them. So if mobs remained asleep, then it’s business as usual. But if they wake up prematurely they are still affected by the secondary effects.
Mass hypnosis could also immobilise, without damage to preserve the no-aggro, and would help with containment.
Flash freeze could add a stun (ice control could use this I think).

Salt crystals could have its -def persist for longer (Earth Control already has so much good control, but this wound be nice)

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Just now, Peacemoon said:

There are definitely are some adjustments that could be made to Mind Control to ‘modernise’ it, if you like. For example switching Mass Confuse and TK’s place in the set, and altering the recharge of Mass Confuse so it is available more often. TK would then be the ultimate power, and there is a lot of potential to make it something really fun whilst keeping with the Telekinetic theme. 
 

I was just thinking about sleep powers whilst walking my dogs (I’m crazy I know!).

 

I think the control set sleep powers could really have secondary effects tagged into them. So if mobs remained asleep, then it’s business as usual. But if they wake up prematurely they are still affected by the secondary effects.
Mass hypnosis could also immobilise, without damage to preserve the no-aggro, and would help with containment.
Flash freeze could add a stun (ice control could use this I think).

Salt crystals could have its -def persist for longer (Earth Control already has so much good control, but this wound be nice)

Would it surprise you if I said I already created a post in the Suggestions forum that proposed the use of secondary effects for Sleeps? 🤣

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14 minutes ago, Blackfeather said:

Cheers, I’ll take a look later when I’m obsessing about all things CoH working from home!

 

Mind Control is pretty dear to me, as my main on Live was a Mind/Storm controller who I did all the badges with and generally spent too much time on.

It was an unorthodox but effective combo. Thunderclap to create containment on minions, followed by freezing rain and nuked down with terrify and APP aoe. Mind’s good ST attack chain combined with /Storm then used to focus down bosses. Its amazing what you can accomplish when you persist with sets and get creative in their use!

My current main, dark/dark, is unquestionably more powerful, but there’s something about Mind that I like, and sometimes Dark/Dark reminds me of the joy of being a lone controller without any pets to babysit and herd. Anyway...

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Posted (edited)

Mind is anywhere from good to great on high-end Dominators, depending on your play style preferences.  The set's strengths and the AT's mesh well; Mind offers a nearly unmatched variety of control effects, which Domination boosts to mag 6+, and then of course the Dominator's secondary offsets Mind's relative lack of damage output.  If you want a character who can solo insane challenges, or a character who can solo all NPC factions with only minor variations in difficulty, then it's hard to beat Mind Doms.  (Illusion Controllers are quite possibly the only real contender for "better than Mind Doms" at soloing things like hard TFs.)

 

If, on the other hand, you want a build with great AoE clearing speed, you should pick something else.  Or if you want something that will perform well without copious IO bonuses.

 

On Controllers, Mind, well, it's hard to put this nicely; Mind blows on Controllers.  What's funny is that for the first phase of the game's development cycle, everyone hated Mind because it didn't have a pet.  That was the sticking point.  "Controllers suck until they get pets, and Mind never gets one."  So the devs listened to the pet-themed complaints and gave us ... Containment!  But Mind sucks at setting up Containment too.  It has a decent single-target rotation against hold-able foes, but virtually zero AoE Containment options.  It also sucks at preventing scatter, which is hugely important on any non-melee AT (really any build without a taunt aura) that aspires to kill multiple targets in a timely fashion.

 

I go back and forth about what the solution to these problems should be.  If you give Mind an AoE immobilize (or another consistent anti-scatter tool), then you take away a crucial part of the set's flavor; you also arguably take away the major trade-off for having such a vast diversity of control types at its disposal.  On the other hand, it isn't fair that MInd should lack both a pet and a consistent means of setting up Containment.  On the other other hand, Mind's variety of controls is somewhat dampened by Mass Confusion's indefensibly long recharge timer; you basically have to alternate it with the AoE hold, which is fine until you run into a faction that's resistant to hold or confuse.

 

So what I'd do is any/all of the following:

  • Halve Mass Confusion's recharge timer.  In a game that features Seeds of Confusion and Synaptic Overload, there simply is no rationale for MC's current state.
  • Add some sort of flag/debuff to Sleep powers that will set up Containment even after the targets have awakened - say for 10 or 20 seconds.  I don't know how feasible this is from a code standpoint, but it would help Mind builds deliver more consistent damage without completely freeing them of any scatter concerns.  This buff also has the benefit of not scaling up much, if at all, in a team environment.
  • Or add Containment to fear effects.  Or give Terrify an Immobilize. 
  • Do something with Telekinesis.  Again, I don't know how feasible it is to outright replace the power, given the cottage rule, but do something with it.  If you can't change the fundamentals of the power (the unwieldy repel + hold), then at least consider adding a debuff that persists after the power's detoggled.  Or maybe the player could be flagged with a synergy buff, similar to the effect Boxing/Kick have on Cross Punch, in return for simply taking Telekinesis (e.g. Total Dom lasts longer or has a shorter recharge if you have TK).  Or maybe just increase the radius of the effect, so that TK doesn't constantly push secondary targets free of itself.
Edited by Obitus
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Well there is me on other controllers skipping the immob because I could not fit it in for the sake of other powers taking priority. You have to ask how many other players are doing that because if that is a lot, then Mind Control doesn't end up being stand out lacklustre in the damage department or falling behind in xp/time for not even having an immob. 

 

Some sets work better at different things for different ATs, Mind Control from early on can tip everything in a teams favour, just by mass sleeping, no one has to wake all the mobs, but people do people. That's not the fault of the Devs, meanwhile containment comes from Sleep.

 

I was level 10, and 7 other people teamed with me, we mullered Hollows, it was easy xp, people just didn't have to wake all the mobs.

 

Concepts not kicked to the side, some sets were meant to have a playstyle.

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Some players make their characters all about them, if it doesn't help them, they don't want it, their build advice to you will ofcourse be about making your character the best thing that helps them too if they ever team with you, because it's always about them.

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Posted (edited)

Most controllers skip the ST immobilise, but I think everyone usually takes the AoE one. The ST immobilise is good for damage at low levels though. 
 

I agree with a lot of what Obitus says. In my Mind/Storm example, I used thunderclap to give my character aoe containment, and it made the set a lot better. That alone would improve Mind a lot. 

Edited by Peacemoon
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Well what is Telekinesis doing to balance the set? Most controllers don't get a repel, I used it a lot in pvp.


Some players make their characters all about them, if it doesn't help them, they don't want it, their build advice to you will ofcourse be about making your character the best thing that helps them too if they ever team with you, because it's always about them.

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13 minutes ago, Peacemoon said:

Most controllers skip the ST immobilise, but I think everyone usually takes the AoE one. The ST immobilise is good for damage at low levels though. 
 

I agree with a lot of what Obitus says. In my Mind/Storm example, I used thunderclap to give my character aoe containment, and it made the set a lot better. That alone would improve Mind a lot. 

If it's anything, the proposal I made a little while back proposed an additional means of triggering Containment: if enemies slept by Mesmerize/Mass Hypnosis were damaged by Levitate or Terrify, this'd leave them disoriented for a fraction of the remaining time they would have been slept for.

 

Flavor wise, I imagined it as disturbing a sleeping enemy to the point of jolting them awake in a confused manner. It also has the added benefit of 'hardening' Mind Control's Sleeps in teams at the cost of duration.

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Posted (edited)

Yeah you had some really good ideas in that post you linked. These days there’s are so many more advanced ways that powers can interact with each other. A lot of that happened after I stopped playing on Live so takes me a while to get my head around. 
 

I really like the idea of TK turning levitate into an AoE power. I was always very jealous of Tanker’s mass levitate power! 
If Mass confuse got moved to 12, then TK could go to 32 and coupled with this sort of power synergy, would be a great damage boost at 32, sort of akin to pets for other sets. Levitate being AoE and Dominate/Mesmerise doing enhanced damage on a TK target could be really fun. Especially if the repel got removed and the end/recharge adjusted.

Edited by Peacemoon
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For controllers Mind is really lacking in AoE damage, but not entirely due to Containment.  It is, in part, due to the lack of a spammable AoE.  We have Terrify on a significantly longer cool down, which also conflicts with leveraging Mass Confusion for damage.  By comparison, Plant can confuse enemies every spawn and hit them with an immobilize that does higher than average damage without loosing the benefit of confuse while still setting Containment. 

 

We bounced around a lot of ideas on how to address this in the suggestion thread from mechanics to improve Mind's containment setting ability to adding some synergies between Levitate and TK.  More feedback is always appreciated.  Also, an issue we discuss is TK's excessive endurance cost, currently the most costly toggle in the game.

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2 minutes ago, SaddestGhost said:

For controllers Mind is really lacking in AoE damage, but not entirely due to Containment.  It is, in part, due to the lack of a spammable AoE.  We have Terrify on a significantly longer cool down, which also conflicts with leveraging Mass Confusion for damage.  By comparison, Plant can confuse enemies every spawn and hit them with an immobilize that does higher than average damage without loosing the benefit of confuse while still setting Containment. 

 

We bounced around a lot of ideas on how to address this in the suggestion thread from mechanics to improve Mind's containment setting ability to adding some synergies between Levitate and TK.  More feedback is always appreciated.  Also, an issue we discuss is TK's excessive endurance cost, currently the most costly toggle in the game.

Yes if TK was to be used more regularly the end reduction would have to be seriously considered, its balanced around being a toggle hold rather than a facilitator to adapt other powers. 
 

I’d be weary of too much comparison to Plant as they have very different styles, but you’re right that terrify does stop the confused mobs from defeating themselves. I don’t know how to fix that. I always used it with freezing rain which kept them ‘triggered’ and attacking...


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When the AoE Mez changes happened (WAY back in the day), other sets got hit by the nerfbat but for Mind Control the devs used a nerfbat with an iron core.

Mass Hypnosis had its duration halved and its recharge doubled.

Total Domination had its duration halved and its recharge doubled.

Terrify had its duration halved and its recharge doubled (because it was an AoE mez to, so no sparing the nerfbat on this one!).

Mass Confusion had its duration halved and its recharge doubled.

 

Telekinesis got thoroughly worked over with the iron cored nerfbat when the aggro caps were put in place, giving the power a Max Targets cap of an insulting (and insane!) MERE FIVE ... when before that Telekinesis had been able to hold entire spawn groups within its AoE.

 

It was just indiscriminate open season on Mind Control, and the set for Controllers has simply never recovered from the bludgeoning it suffered by the iron cored nerfbat that was done to make room for Dominators.  I mean, seriously ... 6 out of 9 signature powers get nerfed THAT HARD and you expect everything to be fine?

 

 

 

Now since Mind Control for Dominators is in such a good place (obviously), I really don't see much need/demand to port many changes to Mind Control for Controllers over to Mind Control for Dominators (aside from fixing the beyond broken by neglect and abject stupidity power that is Telekinesis).  In that sense, I'm perfectly find with having Mind Control for Controllers ... diverge ... somewhat from Mind Control for Dominators, because it's the Controller version that needs help, while the Dominator version doesn't.

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42 minutes ago, Obitus said:

Mind is anywhere from good to great on high-end Dominators, depending on your play style preferences.  The set's strengths and the AT's mesh well; Mind offers a nearly unmatched variety of control effects, which Domination boosts to mag 6+, and then of course the Dominator's secondary offsets Mind's relative lack of damage output.  If you want a character who can solo insane challenges, or a character who can solo all NPC factions with only minor variations in difficulty, then it's hard to beat Mind Doms.  (Illusion Controllers are quite possibly the only real contender for "better than Mind Doms" at soloing things like hard TFs.)

I'm having trouble thinking of a scenario where Mind is better than Electric. You don't even need perma-Dom with Electric.

1 hour ago, Obitus said:
  • Halve Mass Confusion's recharge timer.  In a game that features Seeds of Confusion and Synaptic Overload, there simply is no rationale for MC's current state.
  • Add some sort of flag/debuff to Sleep powers that will set up Containment even after the targets have awakened - say for 10 or 20 seconds.  I don't know how feasible this is from a code standpoint, but it would help Mind builds deliver more consistent damage without completely freeing them of any scatter concerns.  This buff also has the benefit of not scaling up much, if at all, in a team environment.
  • Or add Containment to fear effects.  Or give Terrify an Immobilize. 
  • Do something with Telekinesis.  Again, I don't know how feasible it is to outright replace the power, given the cottage rule, but do something with it.  If you can't change the fundamentals of the power (the unwieldy repel + hold), then at least consider adding a debuff that persists after the power's detoggled.  Or maybe the player could be flagged with a synergy buff, similar to the effect Boxing/Kick have on Cross Punch, in return for simply taking Telekinesis (e.g. Total Dom lasts longer or has a shorter recharge if you have TK).  Or maybe just increase the radius of the effect, so that TK doesn't constantly push secondary targets free of itself.

I must admit that I'm a bit puzzled at how Confuse is basically just a better version of Hold - it can be used without aggro and with lower recharges. It even tends to compress spawns for you.

 

I think Sleep-as-Containment would run across the problem that damage eliminates all Sleep mag. Let's say I'm fighting an AV. With my Immobilize, I use it twice, get Containment and then have Containment for the rest of the fight by periodically refreshing the Immobilize. With Sleep, I use it twice, get Containment - and then have to use it twice again to get Containment again.

 

Your Terrify notion wouldn't really accomplish much, since the only Fear effect Mind has is on a medium recharge (contrast with 4 and 8 sec recharge Immobilizes the other sets get).

 

I'd argue that Telekinesis isn't just bad. It's both unslottable and thematically inappropriate for the set. Virtually any fix I can think of for Telekinesis results in a "shouldn't this be a Gravity power?" scenario. Consider something like a ground target AE that 'repels' all nearby enemies towards the center of the ground target. That would be a useful, interesting power - and it immediately raises the question "why isn't this something that a Singularity does?".

 

But even if we come up with some nice ideas for a signature power, the set is just loaded down with so much generic crud that it's hard to make it work without a complete overhaul. The powers aren't just mediocre and based on a notion of how the game should work that no longer exists - they're also pretty much a survey of the worst, least-interesting powers that everyone skips from other sets.

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Mind is great if you're still playing i1-i3. most other sets either evolved or could be adapted as the game itself changed, and the way we play it (and broke it) changed. the issues with it are varied & complex, so i'm glad many peeps here notice, take interest, & care enough to make suggestions toward improvement.

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38 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

When the AoE Mez changes happened (WAY back in the day), other sets got hit by the nerfbat but for Mind Control the devs used a nerfbat with an iron core.

Mass Hypnosis had its duration halved and its recharge doubled.

Total Domination had its duration halved and its recharge doubled.

Terrify had its duration halved and its recharge doubled (because it was an AoE mez to, so no sparing the nerfbat on this one!).

Mass Confusion had its duration halved and its recharge doubled.

 

Telekinesis got thoroughly worked over with the iron cored nerfbat when the aggro caps were put in place, giving the power a Max Targets cap of an insulting (and insane!) MERE FIVE ... when before that Telekinesis had been able to hold entire spawn groups within its AoE.

 

It was just indiscriminate open season on Mind Control, and the set for Controllers has simply never recovered from the bludgeoning it suffered by the iron cored nerfbat that was done to make room for Dominators.  I mean, seriously ... 6 out of 9 signature powers get nerfed THAT HARD and you expect everything to be fine?

 

 

 

Now since Mind Control for Dominators is in such a good place (obviously), I really don't see much need/demand to port many changes to Mind Control for Controllers over to Mind Control for Dominators (aside from fixing the beyond broken by neglect and abject stupidity power that is Telekinesis).  In that sense, I'm perfectly find with having Mind Control for Controllers ... diverge ... somewhat from Mind Control for Dominators, because it's the Controller version that needs help, while the Dominator version doesn't.

You’re right, it did get hit hard by all those nerfs you listed. And then just to add insult to injury the original devs porter Mind Control’s most unique power, Mass Confusion, to Plant Control and made it superior! 😆

Its a shame for Plant Control really, because what would have been an interesting set is now largely dominated by confusion spores..

 

As for Controller vs Dom Mind Control, I would argue against divergence purely because that’s never happened before, I don’t see a particular need, and it’s less confusing for players than having 2 versions of the same set. 
 

It would be nice to see some clever changes to Mind which improves it where it needs to be, but without losing its sense of identity. Example I really like not having a pet on Mind Control, and that should definitely stay for an alternative play style.


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Posted (edited)

Issue 5

Quote
Inherents
  • Controllers have a new Inherent Ability called Containment. All Controllers will do double damage (+100% unenhanced base Damage) to a target (non pvp) that is Immobilized, Disoriented, Slept or Held. Increasing the non-Pet damage potential of all Controllers. This change is intended to give them a more balanced and even game-play experience throughout all of their levels.
  • Controller AoE Holds, Disorients and Sleeps (and a few others like Quicksand and Ice Slick) recharge times have been increased and duration reduced, to balance the new increased damage
    • AoE Immobilize and Phase Shift powers were not affected.
    • Volcanic Gasses duration was not affected.
Aggro Cap

To limit the amount of 'herding' done by players to a more reasonable and realistic level - Set a maximum number of targets that can be affected by most offensive powers:

  • AoE Debuffs, Ranged cones, and Melee AoE (PBAoE) are set to 10.
  • Some Large PBAoE (like Nova) are set to 16.
  • Ranged AoE damage powers are set to 16.
  • All AoE crowd control powers are set to 16.
  • Melee Cones are set to 5.
  • Taunts (including Tanker inherent Taunt - 'PunchVoke') are set to 5.
  • Buffs are unaffected.

 

Somehow Telekinesis ... a Target AoE anchor power ... got saddled with a max target cap (of FIVE!!) that belongs to (and I can't believe I'm still talking about this FIFTEEN YEARS LATER!) ... MELEE CONES.  Meanwhile, other AoE crowd control powers (and I'd argue that an AoE Hold ought to qualify as an AoE control power) have a Max Targets of ... wait for it ... 16.

 

The anger still burns over this gross injustice to Telekinesis.  😠

 

And the fact that 4 out of 9(!!) powers in Mind Control had their duration halved and their recharge doubled ... it's really no surprise that Mind Control got shoved into a ditch and has never been allowed to climb out of it.

Edited by Redlynne
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I do remember the old TK. I remember a mind controller pinning a horde of mobs to a wall in a Boomtown office mission, and we were a bit in awe, but then happily cut them down! I was a lowly Grav Controller with just an aoe root and dimension shift to show for myself 😂

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29 minutes ago, Peacemoon said:

...

Its a shame for Plant Control really, because what would have been an interesting set is now largely dominated by confusion spores..

...

I would say not to worry, as Plant also got the same (ST hold) or better (AoE Immob) damage than Fire, plant control is too busy dealing the hurt to worry about it's opener (seeds of confusion).  An epic set, no doubt.  That might be why I'm so frustrated with Mind.  I have two plant controllers (Plant/Nature and Plant/Storm - yeah, that's a hard one to move to mind/anything with).

 

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Posted (edited)
13 minutes ago, r0y said:

I would say not to worry, as Plant also got the same (ST hold) or better (AoE Immob) damage than Fire, plant control is too busy dealing the hurt to worry about it's opener (seeds of confusion).  An epic set, no doubt.  That might be why I'm so frustrated with Mind.  I have two plant controllers (Plant/Nature and Plant/Storm - yeah, that's a hard one to move to mind/anything with).

 

Yeah I meant more that with Plant that one power overshadows the rest of the set, and makes for less interesting choices, and a less fun experience, at least for me. Basically any situation you find yourself in as Plant you just throw seeds at them and job done! So a lot of stuff then becomes redundant in comparison.

 

Plant is definitely a very good set, but if you’re too used to seeds it will be hard to find anything else quite as good

Edited by Peacemoon
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1 hour ago, Hjarki said:

I'd argue that Telekinesis isn't just bad. It's both unslottable and thematically inappropriate for the set. Virtually any fix I can think of for Telekinesis results in a "shouldn't this be a Gravity power?" scenario. Consider something like a ground target AE that 'repels' all nearby enemies towards the center of the ground target. That would be a useful, interesting power - and it immediately raises the question "why isn't this something that a Singularity does?".

+1. A simple fix could be to rename TK to something like Mind Warp and have it be a AoE disorient. 

 

But yeah, I love Mind control as a powerset, but the times I would pick it over Plant is in theme alone. Mind has no pet, so it should to a default be better at control and damage, and I don't see it compared to Plant.

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Without Pause Claws/wp brute, Nothing But Flowers Plant/storm, Waterpark Water/temp blaster, Sneakers StJ/en stalker,

Current obsession(s): Earth/earth dom, Rad/bio brute.

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9 hours ago, Peacemoon said:

Really the main issue is just containment. If fears provided containment damage it would also help Mind a lot too. 

Yes, that would be amazing! 

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2 minutes ago, Without_Pause said:

+1. A simple fix could be to rename TK to something like Mind Warp and have it be a AoE disorient. 

 

But yeah, I love Mind control as a powerset, but the times I would pick it over Plant is in theme alone. Mind has no pet, so it should to a default be better at control and damage, and I don't see it compared to Plant.

I concur.  A good fix would be to REMOVE and REPLACE telekinesis with something else that give containment.  Move things around as others have suggested many times.

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