Is Fire/ Ninja viable for late game? Need build tips

[marcoiron]

Helo guys, I am an old times CoH player returning to the community after a long long time and decided to create a fire ninja RP inspired character. I read in another topic something about the /Ninja powers being complete garbage but I would like to give it a try since it is important to my character background and playstyle. Any build suggestions that would make it viable for late game playing (both pvp and pve)??. I am having a hard time finding anyone playing with this combination to help me.....Thank you all in advance, I am having a great time coming back to the game!!!!

Edited April 13, 2020 by marcoiron

[Nemu]

Everything is viable and especially anything fire blast.

 

How to make it viable depends on your preferred playstyle. Are you shy about getting into melee to use your melee attacks or do you have balls?

 

If the former most people in that camp build for range defense and stay on the perimeters and blast/hover blast.

 

If the latter then people in that camp will typically build for either melee or positional defense that allows them to survive in the thick of it longer. The better players have also mastered the art of movement and other game mechanics and will weave in and out of combat pending the opportunities that arise to get their melee licks in. I see about maybe less than 5% of the player base that actually do this. Doesn't mean that you can't do it, but most people don't adopt that kind of active playstyle and prefer the "I stand still and whack you while you whack me harder" honor code and consequently the people that do this and eat dirt enough times tend to migrate to the previous playstyle and complain about how squishy blasters are.

 

If you take the time to learn how to play blasters you can be a fearless engine of destruction, if not the pew pew option is always available.

 

Also, what kind of budget are we working with here? All the inf in the world or do you have any limitations? Power pools that you'd prefer to have? Be specific.

 

 

[Banana Man]

Fire is a really good blaster primary, ninja is a pretty sub-par secondary, but the combo can be made to work. Like Nemu said, any build can be made to be viable in PvE.

 

For PvP, fire is pretty solid, but /ninja is quite bad. You'd have a hard time making a decent PvP build without sacrificing a lot of PvE functionality. PvP builds are typically VERY different, especially on blasters. PvP builds can function in PvE (they can do plenty of damage still), but they will typically lack AoE, and they will be far less durable than dedicated PvE builds. 

 

To get the most out of a fire/ninja blaster in late game PvE, you probably want to build in enough defense to not die a bunch, tons of recharge so you can spam blaze and blazing bolt, tons of damage so you can make up for /nin having no build up, and slot golden dragonfly with both -res procs so you can do... more damage.

 

 

[Coyote]

1: Late game is all about damage, and the secondary build constraint is Defense, so your secondary doesn't have that much effect on the character's ability. Fire Blast is an excellent high-damage primary, so the combination will be fine if you build for Defense and just blast.

 

2: Ninja is a subpar secondary, though it has a few useful powers as you level. It can work, though it will lean a bit more on Fire Blast and Defense than most Blaster builds. The powers to look at and consider using are:

1: the single-target Hold. This can be increased to very high damage with procs. Not as much of a benefit to Fire Blast, though, than to other sets that may not do as much single-target damage.

2: the PBAoE sword attack. This is a pretty weak attack at base, but its long recharge means that it has unusually high chances to activate damage procs. Throw in as many damage procs as you can (including the purple one, since Inferno does so much damage that it doesn't need procs too badly), and I think it ends up topping 400 damage per use, which is excellent when good global Recharge bonus and Hasten can get it down to used once or twice every spawn.

3: the cone Confuse. This kinda sucks because the Confuse isn't guaranteed, until you get Contagious Confusion into it. At that point, it's less about the power's statistics, than about a delivery mechanism for 10 chances to activate Contagious Confusion on every spawn, which is great.

[Zepp]

On 4/16/2020 at 9:25 PM, Banana Man said:

Fire is a really good blaster primary, ninja is a pretty sub-par secondary, but the combo can be made to work. Like Nemu said, any build can be made to be viable in PvE.

 

For PvP, fire is pretty solid, but /ninja is quite bad. You'd have a hard time making a decent PvP build without sacrificing a lot of PvE functionality. PvP builds are typically VERY different, especially on blasters. PvP builds can function in PvE (they can do plenty of damage still), but they will typically lack AoE, and they will be far less durable than dedicated PvE builds. 

 

To get the most out of a fire/ninja blaster in late game PvE, you probably want to build in enough defense to not die a bunch, tons of recharge so you can spam blaze and blazing bolt, tons of damage so you can make up for /nin having no build up, and slot golden dragonfly with both -res procs so you can do... more damage.

 

 

Ninja's "build up" is in Shinobi (which provides bonus damage when attacking from stealth).

[brasilgringo]

14 hours ago, Zepp said:

Ninja's "build up" is in Shinobi (which provides bonus damage when attacking from stealth).

I believe this was changed to be an extra-dmg proc chance on all attacks (though it's weaker on big aoes / stronger attacks) when it's running.  They call it a chance to "crit" but it's like a small dmg proc.

 

The biggest issue with Ninja's PBAOE sword attack, imho, is the very tiny radius.   Even compared to Atom Smasher or End of Time, and esp compared to Thunderstrike.

 

As people note, /Ninja will be OK end-game esp when paired with FIre, but you won't be min-maxing your secondary.  If you're OK with that go for it.  And don't forget to slot -RES procs and +rchrg Force Feedback proc in GD.

Edited July 19, 2021 by brasilgringo

[Zepp]

8 hours ago, brasilgringo said:

I believe this was changed to be an extra-dmg proc chance on all attacks (though it's weaker on big aoes / stronger attacks) when it's running.  They call it a chance to "crit" but it's like a small dmg proc.

 

The biggest issue with Ninja's PBAOE sword attack, imho, is the very tiny radius.   Even compared to Atom Smasher or End of Time, and esp compared to Thunderstrike.

 

As people note, /Ninja will be OK end-game esp when paired with FIre, but you won't be min-maxing your secondary.  If you're OK with that go for it.  And don't forget to slot -RES procs and +rchrg Force Feedback proc in GD.

Thanks for the heads up. I like that change, it will help with longer fights.

 

I'm working on a build and was thinking of slotting Blinding Powder with: Cacophony CfD(En), Malaise's Illusions CfD(Psi), Cloud Senses CfD(Neg), Coercive Persuasion Cf(Contagious Confusion), and Coercive Persuasion Acc/Rech.

 

Do you think that would be worth it. or should I drop the damage procs and just two slot it with Coercive Persuasion?

[nihilii]

This thread is from April 2020. Post rework, I'd say /ninja is the ideal glass cannon thanks to the buffed sword attacks (single target). Fire/Ninja in melee pushes more damage than just about anything except Fire/Fire. And it does that with 2 -RES procs, too, which is always nice for pets and teammates.

[Zepp]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

This thread is from April 2020. Post rework, I'd say /ninja is the ideal glass cannon thanks to the buffed sword attacks (single target). Fire/Ninja in melee pushes more damage than just about anything except Fire/Fire. And it does that with 2 -RES procs, too, which is always nice for pets and teammates.

I've been working on a Fire/Ninja build and it seems like very few people are talking about it... interesting... more -res...

[brasilgringo]

7 hours ago, nihilii said:

This thread is from April 2020. Post rework, I'd say /ninja is the ideal glass cannon thanks to the buffed sword attacks (single target). Fire/Ninja in melee pushes more damage than just about anything except Fire/Fire. And it does that with 2 -RES procs, too, which is always nice for pets and teammates.

 

I must be missing something.  I have an Elec/Nin and while GD is nice, it doesn't make me feel like the set is OP or meaningfully better than, say, /Elec .. With /Elec you get a strong melee / pbaoe in Thunderstrike (larger radius) which also KD's stuff to keep in your Rain of Fire (vs. Nin's small radius weak PBAOE in Lotus Drops), and honestly a proc'd out Shocking Grasp doesn't feel much weaker to me than GD (even with -RES) ... /Elec also gives you two place to slot +recharge FF procs (vs 1 in GD).   Sure, Choking Powder proc'd out is nice (about the same as Positron Cell in Atomic proc'd out), but it does have a slow projective travel time. 

 

In short, I think /Nin is OK but not great as a secondary and I don't see the damage you're mentioning, but who knows?  Maybe I'm slotting it wrong or doing a wrong rotation.

 

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Sith Warrior: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Electrical Blast
Secondary Power Set: Ninja Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Lightning Bolt -- Thn-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(A), Thn-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(3), Thn-Acc/Dmg(3), Thn-Dmg/Rchg(5), Thn-Dmg/EndRdx(5), Thn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7)
Level 1: Immobilizing Dart -- TraoftheH-Immob/Acc(A)
Level 2: Ball Lightning -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(7), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(9), Ann-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), Ann-ResDeb%(11)
Level 4: Choking Powder -- HO:Nucle(A), GldJvl-Dam%(11), Apc-Dam%(13), UnbCns-Dam%(13), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(15), NrnSht-Dam%(15)
Level 6: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(17), BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(17), WntGif-ResSlow(19), Ksm-ToHit+(19)
Level 8: Sting of the Wasp -- SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(21), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(21), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(23), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(23)
Level 10: Shinobi -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 12: Zapp -- StnoftheM-Dam%(A), StnoftheM-Acc/Dmg(25), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(25), StnoftheM-Dmg/EndRdx(27), StnoftheM-Acc/ActRdx/Rng(27), GldJvl-Dam%(29)
Level 14: Short Circuit -- SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAvl-Dmg/EndRdx(29), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprAvl-Rchg/KDProc(31)
Level 16: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel/EndRdx(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(33)
Level 18: Aim -- GssSynFr--Build%(A), RctRtc-ToHit(33), RctRtc-ToHit/Rchg(33)
Level 20: Kuji-In Toh -- EndMod-I(A)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 24: Boxing -- Acc-I(A)
Level 26: Tough -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), GldArm-3defTpProc(34)
Level 28: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def(34), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(36), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(36)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- RedFrt-EndRdx/Rchg(A), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(36), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(37), RedFrt-Def(37), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(37), RedFrt-EndRdx(39)
Level 32: Thunderous Blast -- SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(A), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(40), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg(40), SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(40)
Level 35: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(42), Rct-Def(42), Rct-ResDam%(42)
Level 38: Golden Dragonfly -- Erd-Dmg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), Mlt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), FrcFdb-Rechg%(45), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(45)
Level 41: The Lotus Drops -- SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBrr-Dmg/Rchg(45), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(46), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprDfnBrr-Rchg/+Status Protect(48)
Level 44: Blinding Powder -- CrcPrs-Conf%(A), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(48), CrcPrs-Conf(48), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(50), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(50), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Defiance 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Prv-Absorb%(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

 

[nihilii]

My general CoH thesis is that just about every character can have sufficient AoE damage with about 2 standard great AoEs, given that boss HP is so far and beyond minion and even lieutenant HP. Ideal attack chains end up with the 2 bosses per x8 group dying at the same time as minions/lieutenants, and generally having more AoEs is overkill than that. I'm betting this perspective is 99% responsible for our different opinions. 😉

 

In detail:

- Thunderstrike has a slow animation even post buff, which gives it a medium DPA at best.

- I don't use Rain of Fire, I don't find it a competitive power at all.
- Lotus Drops is admittedly garbage. But that's not a problem, because of the above thesis. Fire Ball + Inferno is all the AoE needed.

- I don't use FF procs.

 

My Sting of the Wasp is basically 4 damage procs including Hecatomb + Hecatomb damage +5 + Achilles' Heel. My GD is 4 damage procs including Armageddon + Arma damage +5 + Fury. This makes my swords hit about twice as strong as yours, give or take. That's a significant boost - at the cost of defense, obviously.

I run Blaze Sting GD Blaze Sting Blazing Bolt and get 700+ DPS out of it. For me, this is the highest ST damage I've managed on a Blaster. My Fire/Elec doesn't come close... and neither does my Fire/Fire for that matter, but I tuned out THAT opinion a little bit previously to not let my ST bias bring out hordes of Fire/Fire questioning the logic. 😄

[brasilgringo]

4 hours ago, nihilii said:

My general CoH thesis is that just about every character can have sufficient AoE damage with about 2 standard great AoEs, given that boss HP is so far and beyond minion and even lieutenant HP. Ideal attack chains end up with the 2 bosses per x8 group dying at the same time as minions/lieutenants, and generally having more AoEs is overkill than that. I'm betting this perspective is 99% responsible for our different opinions. 😉

 

In detail:

- Thunderstrike has a slow animation even post buff, which gives it a medium DPA at best.

- I don't use Rain of Fire, I don't find it a competitive power at all.
- Lotus Drops is admittedly garbage. But that's not a problem, because of the above thesis. Fire Ball + Inferno is all the AoE needed.

- I don't use FF procs.

 

My Sting of the Wasp is basically 4 damage procs including Hecatomb + Hecatomb damage +5 + Achilles' Heel. My GD is 4 damage procs including Armageddon + Arma damage +5 + Fury. This makes my swords hit about twice as strong as yours, give or take. That's a significant boost - at the cost of defense, obviously.

I run Blaze Sting GD Blaze Sting Blazing Bolt and get 700+ DPS out of it. For me, this is the highest ST damage I've managed on a Blaster. My Fire/Elec doesn't come close... and neither does my Fire/Fire for that matter, but I tuned out THAT opinion a little bit previously to not let my ST bias bring out hordes of Fire/Fire questioning the logic. 😄

 

Cool, thanks for the explanation.  I may rebuild the Elec/Nin to focus more on dmg like yours and give up def.  My other blasters are generally more defense oriented (I leeroy a lot) so it wouldn't hurt to have one more focused on dmg.  I think I feel the lack of AOE on Elec/* more due to the lack of FIreball and Thunderous Blast being meh-sauce.  Short Circuit really sucks between low damage and animation time. 

 

on ROF, the nice thing about */Elec is you get two big-area KDs in Thunderstrike and Force of Thunder (with KD procs and +rcrg procs) that keeps stuff in your ROF - so if you open with ROF, and then rotate them with FIreball (when Inferno isn't up) you get great mitigation and stuff just ticking away in your rains.  I use Thunderstike for aoe-goodness when Inferno isn't up or when I need the mitigation of the KD (i.e., Leeroying)

[Nemu]

You might want to consider a rad/nin so you can take ALL the procs 😬

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
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Level 50 Mutation Blaster
Primary Power Set: Radiation Blast
Secondary Power Set: Ninja Training
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Leadership
Power Pool: Fighting
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: X-Ray Beam -- SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBrr-Dmg/Rchg(34), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(34), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(34), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36), SprDfnBrr-Rchg/+Status Protect(36)
Level 1: Immobilizing Dart -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(43), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(45), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(45)
Level 2: Irradiate -- AchHee-ResDeb%(A), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(3), TchofLadG-%Dam(3), Obl-%Dam(5), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg(7), SprAvl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(7)
Level 4: Super Speed -- WntGif-ResSlow(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(40)
Level 6: Choking Powder -- Dcm-Build%(A), NrnSht-Dam%(9), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(11), UnbCns-Dam%(11), GldJvl-Dam%(13), GldNet-Dam%(13)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Ksm-ToHit+(9)
Level 10: Shinobi -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), HO:Cyto(49)
Level 12: Proton Volley -- StnoftheM-Dam%(A), GldJvl-Dam%(19), Apc-Dam%(19), TchofLadG-%Dam(21), Apc-Dmg(21), ShlBrk-%Dam(23)
Level 14: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-Def(15), Rct-Def/EndRdx(15), Rct-ResDam%(17)
Level 16: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(17)
Level 18: Cosmic Burst -- SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(23), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(25), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(33), SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(33)
Level 20: Kuji-In Toh -- EndMod-I(A), EndMod-I(45)
Level 22: Tactics -- HO:Cyto(A)
Level 24: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 26: Neutron Bomb -- Ann-ResDeb%(A), Bmbdmt-+FireDmg(27), ShlBrk-%Dam(27), TchofLadG-%Dam(29), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg(29), SprFrzBls-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33)
Level 28: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), HO:Ribo(46)
Level 30: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(31), ShlWal-Def(31), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(31)
Level 32: Atomic Blast -- Arm-Dmg(A), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(36), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(37), Arm-Acc/Rchg(37), Arm-Dmg/EndRdx(37)
Level 35: Aim -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 38: Golden Dragonfly -- Obl-%Dam(A), Arm-Dam%(39), Erd-%Dam(39), TchofLadG-%Dam(39), Dmg-I(40), FrcFdb-Rechg%(40)
Level 41: Sting of the Wasp -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Hct-Acc/Rchg(42), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(43)
Level 44: Charged Armor -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(46), UnbGrd-Max HP%(46)
Level 47: Blinding Powder -- CrcPrs-Conf(A), CrcPrs-Conf/Rchg(47), CrcPrs-Acc/Conf/Rchg(47), CrcPrs-Acc/Rchg(48), CrcPrs-Conf/EndRdx(48), CrcPrs-Conf%(48)
Level 49: Vengeance -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Defiance 
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Pnc-Heal/+End(A), Mrc-Rcvry+(5)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

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[Crysis]

*Edited* 

 

Fooled around with the build a bit more yesterday on flight home, worked in Fury -RES proc to GD as suggested, had to give up a little DEF here and there and compensated by +5'ing some DEF enhancements.  But it's still a pretty solid build I think.  I may just go ahead and make one this weekend.

 

*********

 

It's a S/L/E//R softcapped +DEF Fire/Nin blaster -without- incarnates.  I worked in two procs (Fury and Achilles), but couldn't get the Annihilation -RES proc in there and maintain my Defense goals.  You could throw the Annihilation proc into Fireball and then minus incarnate powers you'd still be S/L/E softcapped to DEF and just at 41% to Ranged.  You could also slot in another Achilles but they don't stack so not sure that's wise to do.  I don't like fragility in my Blasters and always try for either typed or ranged +DEF, just happened to be able to do both with this build if you can live without Annhiliation.

 

I've already leveled an Archery/Nin and a Dual Pistols/Nin so not sure I'll go down the /Nin path again this soon.  But this doesn't appear to be any more/less competent of an endgame Blaster build than anything else in my lineup.  Once you get to i-Levels anyways, almost everyone is sporting so much extra +DEF buffs and stuff, you can actually respec and not worry about the caps on your own.  My experience anyways, but I do like self sufficiency for soloing purposes.

 

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 3.0.0.0
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Hothead: Level 50 Magic Blaster
Primary Power Set: Fire Blast
Secondary Power Set: Ninja Training
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mace Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Fire Blast -- SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg(A), SprDfnBrr-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(3), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(5), SprDfnBrr-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(5), SprDfnBrr-Rchg/+Status Protect(7)
Level 1: Immobilizing Dart -- HO:Nucle(A)
Level 2: Sting of the Wasp -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), AchHee-ResDeb%(7), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(9), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(11), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(11)
Level 4: Fire Ball -- Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(A), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(13), Artl-Dam/Rech(15), Artl-Dam/End(15), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(17), Artl-Acc/Dam(23)
Level 6: Rain of Fire -- Artl-Acc/Dam(A), Artl-Dam/End(17), Artl-Dam/Rech(19), Artl-Acc/Dam/Rech(19), Artl-Acc/Rech/Rng(21), Artl-End/Rech/Rng(25)
Level 8: Choking Powder -- BslGaz-Acc/Hold(A), BslGaz-Acc/Rchg(21)
Level 10: Shinobi -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(23), LucoftheG-Def(25)
Level 12: Aim -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 14: Combat Jumping -- Ksm-ToHit+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(27), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(34)
Level 16: The Lotus Drops -- Erd-Acc/Rchg(A), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(27), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(29)
Level 18: Blaze -- SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsWrt-Dmg/Rchg(29), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(31), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(31), SprBlsWrt-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(31), SprBlsWrt-Rchg/Dmg%(33)
Level 20: Kuji-In Toh -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A), Prv-Absorb%(33), Pnc-Heal/+End(33)
Level 22: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(34)
Level 24: Super Speed -- BlsoftheZ-Travel(A), BlsoftheZ-ResKB(34)
Level 26: Blazing Bolt -- ExpMarks-Dmg/End/Int(A), ExpMarks-Acc/End/Rech(36), ExpMarks-Rng/FSnp(36), ExpMarks-Acc/Dmg(36), ExpMarks-Dmg/Rech(37), ExpMarks-Dmg/Int/Rng/Rech(37)
Level 28: Kick -- Acc-I(A)
Level 30: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-ResDam(37), GldArm-End/Res(39)
Level 32: Inferno -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(39), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(39), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(40), Obl-%Dam(40)
Level 35: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(42), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(42)
Level 38: Golden Dragonfly -- Obl-Dmg(A), Obl-Acc/Rchg(42), Obl-Dmg/Rchg(43), Obl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(43), Obl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(43), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(45)
Level 41: Scorpion Shield -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def(45), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(45)
Level 44: Web Envelope -- EnfOpr-Acc/Rchg(A), EnfOpr-Acc/EndRdx(46), EnfOpr-Acc/Immob/Rchg(46), EnfOpr-EndRdx/Immob(46)
Level 47: Summon Spiderlings -- ExpRnf-Acc/Rchg(A), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(48), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(50), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(48), ExpRnf-+Res(Pets)(48)
Level 49: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(50)
Level 1: Defiance 
Level 1: Brawl -- Acc-I(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Clr-Stlth(A)
Level 2: Rest -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Flight-I(A)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(13)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A)
Level 49: Quick Form 
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 50: Vanguard Radial Superior Ally 
Level 50: Ion Radial Final Judgement 
Level 50: Reactive Radial Flawless Interface 
Level 50: Clarion Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Assault Core Embodiment 
Level 50: Freedom Phalanx Reserve 
Level 50: Portal Jockey 
Level 50: Task Force Commander 
Level 50: The Atlas Medallion 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
------------

Edited July 24, 2021 by Crysis

[DreadShinobi]

If you aren't putting a fury of the gladiator resist debuff proc in golden dragonfly, which is a PBAOE resist debuff proc that is usable in your single target attack rotation, youre already missing out on one of the biggest reasons to choose /ninja over anything else and have it be a dps increase to your fire blasting. Forcefeedback proc and achilles heel access in your attack chain are also standout features, and highlights the strong point of ninja training - enhancing the damage that you can do with your fire blasting, which also gets around the damage cap via resist debuffs.

 

Fire/Ninja is a great team oriented blaster, especially with a kinetics user that can buff up the lower +dmg buff available. When you have a few blasters you can make some very specialized build decisions, like a hyper offense fire/ninja that does well on a support heavy team and dips in to munitions mastery as well to pump up your -res potential even further. Surveillance/Achilles + GD Fury of the gladiator = fast application -54% res to amp up your blaze/blazing bolt damage, everyone elses damage, and melt hard targets like AVs. Smoke Flash can be viable for its cast time if the intent is to buff ally damage on a hard target (10.5% resist debuff). Fireball is viable in single target rotations due to the 1s cast and can proc annihilation (12.5% resist debuff), though I don't find that to be slot-worth. That is a resist debuff potential of -77%, providing a force multiplier for teams that rivals support characters on single targets, and still produces all that juicy blaster level dps.

[thorasaurus]

On 4/12/2020 at 8:46 PM, marcoiron said:

Helo guys, I am an old times CoH player returning to the community after a long long time and decided to create a fire ninja RP inspired character. I read in another topic something about the /Ninja powers being complete garbage but I would like to give it a try since it is important to my character background and playstyle. Any build suggestions that would make it viable for late game playing (both pvp and pve)??. I am having a hard time finding anyone playing with this combination to help me.....Thank you all in advance, I am having a great time coming back to the game!!!!

I don't know about anyone else, but I had an issue with ninja not proccing Shinobi as much with Fire and Ice as it did with other primaries (water, sonic). Shinobi especially only procs off the fire primary damage part (not the dot) and does not give credit for most of the dot portions of Ice damage's hold attack (tired, I forget the name, bitter ice blast? not the bad slow one that replaces a snipe). With Water (excepting whirlpool, which cannot proc it) it procced a lot. This was on test with characters I bumped up to 50 with SO's, so nothing super fancy IO wise, just a test drive to see how they "felt". Sonic and water felt the most fun and water seemed to do the most damage, especially when I got the occasional double shinobi water jet.

[brasilgringo]

Ok, here's my Elec/Nin rebuild attempt that was inspired by the comments above.  I had to keep Tactics to deal with the low accuracy in the proc-only attacks. 

It basically got rid of the 2 things I hated in Elec/Nin due to anim time and low damage (Short Circuit / Lotus Drops) and focused on higher damage output / procs while sacrificing some defense - down from self soft-cap to S/L/E/R to 1 small purple from soft-cap to S/L/E/R, which is likely fine and easy to carry stacks or get buffs on teams. 

 

I'm not a huge fan of Volt Sent, but I had a spare power pick and 4 slots to use to pick up the set bonuses.  I suppose it's "Free" damage.  Anyway, open to ideas.  Thx.

 

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[DreadShinobi]

There are a few issues with the shinobi damage proc that differentiates ninja training being more competitive with sets that have a build-up power.

 

The first is the 30 second lockout. After 30s you unlock the chance to proc shinobi, but it is not every 30 seconds. Sometimes it can take another 10-15 seconds for the proc to come through. This leads to the second issue that it only buffs a single attack and you have no control over what it buffs. The proc damage is based on the damage of the power it affects. It is nice but nothing special when it buffs blaze or blazing bolt, and with higher global recharge you're more likely to proc a high dpa attack, but with lower global recharge and the more instances of flares that you have in your attack chain to gap fill the more likely you are to get a very mediocre shinobi proc. Along with the lack of timing control, the proc can very likely be wasted on overkill. 

 

Build up in comparison scales better with blaster self dmg buff modifier and base damage, lasts 10 seconds, has timing control, works better with your nuke, and scales with +recharge.

 

There are a host of options that could make ninja training feel better in comparison to other blaster secondaries, and shinobi is a great power to look at to make those changes.

-make shinobi lockout scale down with recharge buffs

-make shinobi a stacking buff, for example each attack you make adds a stack, after you attack 5 times with 5 stacks, your next attack triggers shinobi

-make make shinobi a self buff that affects your character immediately at 30s for your next attack, rather than a chance anywhere between 30 and 50 seconds.

-have shinobi grant a 3-5 second buff that adds the proc to all attacks used within the window

-make shinobi a click

-add a half damage buff to shinobi that lasts 10s, and your first attack still procs damage.

[brasilgringo]

1 hour ago, DreadShinobi said:

There are a few issues with the shinobi damage proc that differentiates ninja training being more competitive with sets that have a build-up power.

 

The first is the 30 second lockout. After 30s you unlock the chance to proc shinobi, but it is not every 30 seconds. Sometimes it can take another 10-15 seconds for the proc to come through. This leads to the second issue that it only buffs a single attack and you have no control over what it buffs. The proc damage is based on the damage of the power it affects. It is nice but nothing special when it buffs blaze or blazing bolt, and with higher global recharge you're more likely to proc a high dpa attack, but with lower global recharge and the more instances of flares that you have in your attack chain to gap fill the more likely you are to get a very mediocre shinobi proc. Along with the lack of timing control, the proc can very likely be wasted on overkill. 

 

Build up in comparison scales better with blaster self dmg buff modifier and base damage, lasts 10 seconds, has timing control, works better with your nuke, and scales with +recharge.

 

There are a host of options that could make ninja training feel better in comparison to other blaster secondaries, and shinobi is a great power to look at to make those changes.

-make shinobi lockout scale down with recharge buffs

-make shinobi a stacking buff, for example each attack you make adds a stack, after you attack 5 times with 5 stacks, your next attack triggers shinobi

-make make shinobi a self buff that affects your character immediately at 30s for your next attack, rather than a chance anywhere between 30 and 50 seconds.

-have shinobi grant a 3-5 second buff that adds the proc to all attacks used within the window

-make shinobi a click

-add a half damage buff to shinobi that lasts 10s, and your first attack still procs damage.

It would be even cooler if it applied actually Scrapper-type crits and not the proc-type additional damage X-D

[DreadShinobi]

46 minutes ago, brasilgringo said:

It would be even cooler if it applied actually Scrapper-type crits and not the proc-type additional damage X-D

I think that was the consideration during initial power design, that they wanted the flavor of crits but were overly cautious about stepping on the toes of crit based archetypes. Unfortunately the limiters placed in shinobi went too far imo. The limits detract from the flavor of a critting ninja blaster because the crits are so infrequent and often just feel disappointing. The limits placed hold the entire set back from being a more frequently chosen blaster secondary during character creation.

[Zepp]

I think the problem with Shinobi is that is actually two powers merged into one. Unlike Field Operative, however, they kinda nerfed one portion. I would prefer if they made the damage buff either like Envenomed Blades from Martial Assault or like Scrapper Crits. In other words, no lockout, straight chance for Tox damage or chance for crit on every attack.

[Crysis]

On 7/21/2021 at 4:27 PM, DreadShinobi said:

I think that was the consideration during initial power design, that they wanted the flavor of crits but were overly cautious about stepping on the toes of crit based archetypes. Unfortunately the limiters placed in shinobi went too far imo. The limits detract from the flavor of a critting ninja blaster because the crits are so infrequent and often just feel disappointing. The limits placed hold the entire set back from being a more frequently chosen blaster secondary during character creation.

I was running several missions with my Arch/Nin last night and the Crits are frequent enough and solid enough that I honestly felt like I was playing a scrapper on a “slow” night.

 

I’d certainly take more frequent crit chances but if too much more it will definitely infringe on Scrappers inherent.