Pool Power Buff

[Ry]

So hear me out on this. You know how Cross Punch has a damage buff if you take Kick and Boxing from the Fighting pool power? At around 15% I believe.

 

What if.... we did that.... with -all- the Pool Powers with attacks?

 

So for example. Super Speed's Flurry attack getting a damage buff depending on if the character had Super Speed and Burnout? Or for all you maniacs out there Whirlwind.

 

It wouldn't have to be a drastic increase, it could be a small buff that stacks depending on how many powers you take in that set. And with Sorcery, Force of Will and now Experimentation in our pockets it would be super cool to see Pool Powers get some tweaks to make them more viable. Just a small thought, lemme know what you guys think!

[MsSmart]

I like the principle very much, it gives a bit more depth to the pool powers.

 

Sue

[Ry]

Thanks! I really do think they need more depth. Some are awesome to look at and I'd love them to have some more use!

[Nanolathe]

As long as no one suggests more flippin' +GlobalRechage as the synergy mechanic...

 

/signed

 

Let's work the idea more then. What would people think for the Leaping Pool Powers?

 

We've got

Jump Kick: Click. Low powered attack with KnockUp (Mag 4.15)

Super Jump: Travel Power - Toggle: +lots of jump speed and jump height.

Combat Jumping: Toggle. Increases Jump height (+200%) and Jump Control. Increases defence by +1.75% (All) and Resistance to Immobilise (Mag -8.3). [Currently used by most as a mule for LotG]

Acrobatics: Toggle. Protection against Knockback/Knockdown (Mag -2? or -7? or -2 & -7?) and Holds (Mag -2 and 48.44% Res to Hold Duration)

Spring Attack: Click. Superiour Damaging Attack, Short ranged TP, AOE, Knockdown (Mag 0.67)

 

My suggestion would be having the Kick, Acrobatics, and Spring Attack being the three powers that interact with each other. They would pretty universally be considered the "underloved" powers from the set... and because I'm not giving people MORE reason to get a LotG mule. 

 

By having Jump Kick - both Acrobatics and Spring Attack gain a 15% reduction to their Endurance Costs. Acrobatics also increases its Hold protection by and extra -1. Spring Attack's TP Range increases by 15%

By having Acrobatics - both Jump Kick and Spring Attack gain a 15% increase in their Damage. Jump Kick's chance to KnockUp increases. Spring Attacks chance to KnockDown increases.

By having Spring Attack - both Jump Kick and Acrobatics gain a 15% reduction to their Endurance Costs. In addition, whenever your attacks with Jump Kick or Spring Attack hit an opponent there is a chance that the opponent will be slowed (-15% Flight Speed, -15% Jump Speed, - 15% Run Speed)

[Galaxy Brain]

Pool Power attacks / powers that require the synergy of 3 powers working together should 100% be competitive with primary and secondary powers.

 

You are investing 3 picks to get them, where normally you would just grab 1-2 powers that aren't attacks in the set anyways. They should feel *worth* it

[Redlynne]

The pool that would gain the most from this approach is probably Teleportation ...

[Nanolathe]

32 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Pool Power attacks / powers that require the synergy of 3 powers working together should 100% be competitive with primary and secondary powers.

 

You are investing 3 picks to get them, where normally you would just grab 1-2 powers that aren't attacks in the set anyways. They should feel *worth* it

That's a whole different argument. Of course Pool Powers should be competitive in this stage of the game, and some of the more "new" pool power sets are significantly more enticing, but originally, in the before times - the long, long ago - they were specifically intended to be a bit crap. Or at least that is the impression I've always gotten from the AMAs and various developer interactions on the old forums. 

 

Adjusting all the pool powers is hopefully on the list of things the HC Devs are going to look at.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Nanolathe

[MTeague]

59 minutes ago, Nanolathe said:

That's a whole different argument. Of course Pool Powers should be competitive in this stage of the game, and some of the more "new" pool power sets are significantly more enticing, but originally, in the before times - the long, long ago - they were specifically intended to be a bit crap. Or at least that is the impression I've always gotten from the AMAs and various developer interactions on the old forums. 

 

Adjusting all the pool powers is hopefully on the list of things the HC Devs are going to look at.

While true, the NCSoft devs kinda at least *started* to open the door on that when they gave Kick / Boxing / Crosspunch it's synergy. 

 

I do think it each power needs to be looked at case-by-case though for, okay, is this underperforming now?  Does it NEED any additional synergy bonus?

 

Because Flurry, sure, I can see a case it needs some love.

Hasten, not so much. There's entire threads arguing "leave it alone" or "nerf it" or "baseline it", but I think everyone can at LEAST agree that Hasten does not need to become Even Stronger.

Jump Kick needs some love.  Combat Jumping?  Fine and dandy right where it is.

 

etc.

[Nanolathe]

35 minutes ago, MTeague said:

While true, the NCSoft devs kinda at least *started* to open the door on that when they gave Kick / Boxing / Crosspunch it's synergy. 

 

I do think it each power needs to be looked at case-by-case though for, okay, is this underperforming now?  Does it NEED any additional synergy bonus?

 

Because Flurry, sure, I can see a case it needs some love.

Hasten, not so much. There's entire threads arguing "leave it alone" or "nerf it" or "baseline it", but I think everyone can at LEAST agree that Hasten does not need to become Even Stronger.

Jump Kick needs some love.  Combat Jumping?  Fine and dandy right where it is.

 

etc.

They also made Sorcery ... fairly enticing. At least it's got a little something extra. 

 

Which is exactly why I kicked Combat Jumping to the curb when it comes to my Leaping synergy buffs suggestion 😁

 

Flurry of Blows and Whirlwind need help. Hasten and Burnout are pretty strong (when compared to many other Pool choices). Super Speed is a travel power... Is Burnout still super niche? Does in need love? Should Super Speed be part of the Synergy system? What would it gain from picking Flurry and Whirlwind? What would it give to the other powers?

 

Does Leadership need looking at? I feel like it's kind of over-picked as a pool, just because it's force multiplication when teamed is pretty crazy, and it's not too shabby just as something to fill out a primary solo character too. (Manoeuvres/Vengeance being LotG mules really warps the set's appeal) 

Edited April 20, 2020 by Nanolathe

[Naraka]

2 hours ago, Nanolathe said:

By having Jump Kick - both Acrobatics and Spring Attack gain a 15% reduction to their Endurance Costs. Acrobatics also increases its Hold protection by and extra -1. Spring Attack's TP Range increases by 15%

By having Acrobatics - both Jump Kick and Spring Attack gain a 15% increase in their Damage. Jump Kick's chance to KnockUp increases. Spring Attacks chance to KnockDown increases.

By having Spring Attack - both Jump Kick and Acrobatics gain a 15% reduction to their Endurance Costs. In addition, whenever your attacks with Jump Kick or Spring Attack hit an opponent there is a chance that the opponent will be slowed (-15% Flight Speed, -15% Jump Speed, - 15% Run Speed)

Jump Kick needs a good amount of help, IMO.  Spring Attack isn't bad but it's got a monster recharge.

 

Some other possible synergies that might make them more enticing than a mere 15% increase in damage or reduction in cost:

 

Give Jump Kick and Spring Attack a short duration +def bonus (you are flipping around, after all) upon use.  Not huge, just like +8% for 10sec (does not stack with same power).  Stacking them both for +16% def to soak up an alpha (on top of the AoE KD from Spring) would be a really nice tool for the non-IO'ed peasants.  Afterburner is already similar as it's recharge is 30sec and provides 15% def (slottable), you just toggle it on, slide in, everybody whiffs you with their 1st volley, you turn it off and proceed like nothing ever happened.

 

Another oddity, if you want Acrobatics or Spring attack, you have to take an additional Leaping pool power.  It's not like the Fighting Pool where you can just take Boxing and Kick to get Cross Punch for all the synergies, you have to take Jump Kick AND Combat Jumping/Super Jump to be able to get the next synergy attacks, so to get full synergies, you'd need 4 of the powers.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Naraka

[kenlon]

2 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Pool Power attacks / powers that require the synergy of 3 powers working together should 100% be competitive with primary and secondary powers.

 

Very much agreed. Fighting has three powers that are very quick, with recharge times that are almost *too* low in the endgame. Might be good to make Leaping a set that gives you slower recharging, harder hitting attacks, since that's what Spring Attack is by default. Not sure what the numbers should look like, though. 

 

 

[Nanolathe]

21 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Another oddity, if you want Acrobatics or Spring attack, you have to take an additional Leaping pool power.  It's not like the Fighting Pool where you can just take Boxing and Kick to get Cross Punch for all the synergies, you have to take Jump Kick AND Combat Jumping/Super Jump to be able to get the next synergy attacks, so to get full synergies, you'd need 4 of the powers.

It's an oddity for my proposed synergies, yes. I blame LotG

 

I guess you could replace Acrobatics for Super Jump and lose all the cool extras... but then Acrobatics is a total dud. Again, I blame LotG.

Edited April 20, 2020 by Nanolathe

[Naraka]

13 minutes ago, Nanolathe said:

It's an oddity for my proposed synergies, yes. I blame LotG

 

I guess you could replace Acrobatics for Super Jump and lose all the cool extras... but then Acrobatics is a total dud. Again, I blame LotG.

Or you can just extend the synergies to include Super Jump.  Super Jump doesn't have to receive any synergy benefits from other powers but it could contribute to the synergy count for the other powers.  Also, some melees might want to get the benefits of some synergy attacks but have no use for Acrobatics.  Even Dark Armor/Fiery Aura might want to skip out on Acrobatics for KB protection but including SJ might still give them the opportunity to utilize Jump Kick/Spring Attack.

[Nanolathe]

22 minutes ago, Naraka said:

Or you can just extend the synergies to include Super Jump.  Super Jump doesn't have to receive any synergy benefits from other powers but it could contribute to the synergy count for the other powers.  Also, some melees might want to get the benefits of some synergy attacks but have no use for Acrobatics.  Even Dark Armor/Fiery Aura might want to skip out on Acrobatics for KB protection but including SJ might still give them the opportunity to utilize Jump Kick/Spring Attack.

Having no use for something, but still wanting the benefits of it by proxy, means that it has a use. It's just an albatross*. I might not want Kick from fighting because of it's Knockback, but I still take it for the buff to Cross Punch and Boxing, for example. Now, I don't think anyone taking Cross Punch and Boxing would actually care about Knockback, since they're obviously not trying to make the most optimal character anyway... but the example is still there.

 

If Acrobatics is THAT poorly designed (or there are extra systems that have been haphazardly bolted on top that completely obsolete it), so characters without KB protection are still not interested in taking a power specifically designed to give you KB Protection... then we've got a bigger problem here.

🙃

 

*albatross (metaphor)

Edited April 20, 2020 by Nanolathe
Link to explain *albatross

[Redlynne]

1 hour ago, Nanolathe said:

Does Leadership need looking at? I feel like it's kind of over-picked as a pool, just because it's force multiplication when teamed is pretty crazy, and it's not too shabby just as something to fill out a primary solo character too. (Manoeuvres/Vengeance being LotG mules really warps the set's appeal)

I've always been of the opinion that Leadership toggles got "built wrong" in the sense that they're overly simplified.  I would have preferred that Leadership gave a Self Only buff on top of the PBAoE buffing that it does, so the caster gets a "double dose" of buffing while everyone else gets only a "single dose" of buffing.  That way, Leadership isn't the "always inferior when solo" option.

[SeraphimKensai]

Teleportation Synergy

 

Recall Friend - Gains 15% Range bonus for having Teleport. Reduces Interrupt by 30% for having Teleport Foe.

 

Teleport Foe - Gains 15% Accuracy Bonus/ 1.0 Magnitude for having Teleport. Reduces Interrupt by 30%/ gains 1.0 Magnitude for having Recall Friend. Magnitude Effect stacks, having both allows lvl 54 elite bosses to be teleported, helps counters TP Foe Resistance in PvP.

 

Teleport - Reduces Casting Time by 50% for having TP Foe. Gains 25% Range/25% Endurance Redux bonus for having Recall Friend.

 

Group Teleport - No Synergy

Long Distance Teleport - No Synergy

 

I think we can all agree that as they currently are, Group TP and LDT are not worth taking for just about any build.

[Nanolathe]

I thought the point of the synergy was to make the "not worth taking" powers more appealing?

[Galaxy Brain]

Tbh, given the pool attacks are generally seen as... well poor, it would have been nice for the attacks to give synergies instead.

 

Like if you took the fighting pool you could choose "Boxing Training", which could imbue your melee attacks with a buff. "Martial Training" would be Kick, and have a different buff, with both synergizing. 

[Nanolathe]

Depends on if we want to cottage ... like ... over half of all the pool powers as they stand to make them good. 

[Galaxy Brain]

2 minutes ago, Nanolathe said:

Depends on if we want to cottage ... like ... over half of all the pool powers as they stand to make them good. 

I mean.... do people use jump kick? Especially over melee powers they would normally pick up, or on a ranged character you either got high damage blasts / amazing blaps, or a poo melee modifier anyways.

[Nanolathe]

11 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I mean.... do people use jump kick? Especially over melee powers they would normally pick up, or on a ranged character you either got high damage blasts / amazing blaps, or a poo melee modifier anyways.

Maybe? Is the power so unsalvageably bad that it has to be cottage'd?

Is it impossible for it be made into a good power as it stands while keeping its basic functionality intact?

 

Edit: I really like the animation. That at least needs to be salvaged!

Edited April 20, 2020 by Nanolathe

[MTeague]

46 minutes ago, Galaxy Brain said:

I mean.... do people use jump kick? Especially over melee powers they would normally pick up, or on a ranged character you either got high damage blasts / amazing blaps, or a poo melee modifier anyways.

re:  Jump Kick.  I've definitely seen it used on Homecoming. The animation is pretty nice.  It's one of those powers I kinda WANT to like, but I just cant' quite get there myself because the damage feels too low to justify adding it to any melee attack chains.  But it's definitely in the "fun to have" "this is not optimal" buckets.

 

re: Fighitng pool attacks.:  I've got Kick, Boxing and Crosspunch on my Beast/Empath MM, because the MM personal attacks are all crazy expensive on endurance, but the fighting pool powers are pretty cheap, and with all three, they're not bad.  With all three you get like a 40% knockdown chance on Kick.  Handy to keep a boss on his butt while the MM pets chew him up.  Plus, if I melee with my pets, they're *definitely* in range for Supremacy and definitely in range for the MM pet-aura IO's.  When teaming, maintaining the Empath buffs and spot healing where needed comes first, but the attacks are fairly serviceable. If nothing else, they make the MM *feel* far less passive.

Edited April 20, 2020 by MTeague

[Nanolathe]

44 minutes ago, MTeague said:

I've got Kick, Boxing and Crosspunch on my Beast/Empath MM, because the MM personal attacks are all crazy expensive on endurance, but the fighting pool powers are pretty cheap, and with all three, they're not bad.  With all three you get like a 40% knockdown chance on Kick.  Handy to keep a boss on his butt while the MM pets chew him up.  Plus, if I melee with my pets, they're *definitely* in range for Supremacy and definitely in range for the MM pet-aura IO's.  When teaming, maintaining the Empath buffs and spot healing where needed comes first, but the attacks are fairly serviceable. If nothing else, they make the MM *feel* far less passive.

Also have this on my Thugs MM. He's a thug, just like his boys. He don't need no guns other than the ones attached to his torso!

[Chance Jackson]

On 4/20/2020 at 2:57 PM, Galaxy Brain said:

I mean.... do people use jump kick? Especially over melee powers they would normally pick up, or on a ranged character you either got high damage blasts / amazing blaps, or a poo melee modifier anyways.

I like the jump kick animation but I haven't had that or air superiority on a toon since early live, I personally wish fighting pool let you select those powers instead of boxing & kick, why shouldn't the "fighting" pool have dominion over all pool melee attacks?