Ice/Bio

[aethereal]

I run on a Mac, on Catalina, so I don't have access to Mids.

 

So I'm looking for a build, but more so, I'm looking for like...  philosophy.  Approach, and maybe some discussion.  Some questions on my mind:

 

1.  What should I take and slot in bio?  Is Genetic Corruption any good?  The sleep component seems obviously not great, but what about the damage debuff (damage debuff plus sandman proc for a bit more survivability)?  How about Parasitic Aura?

 

2.  With a bio armor brute, I slotted DNA Siphon as a proc-bomb, but I'm wondering if, with the lower HP pool and resist caps of a stalker, should I do it more as a pure defensive power?

 

3.  What's the overall approach to maximizing survivability as a bio stalker?  S/L defense?  non-S/L resists?  Just lots of recharge to keep your clickies at the highest uptime?  Shadow Meld as a panic button?  I've never had Shadow Meld, I understand it has a very long (3s) animation time.  When does the defense actually kick in during that animation time?

 

4.  In terms of attacks, how possible is it to get to almost entirely assassin's strike/freezing touch/moonbeam ST rotation?  Not entirely, right?  I'm gonna need ice sword to be fairly in there as a filler?  With stalker base damage/crits, I want to get my attacks to 90% damage enhancement before worrying about procs, right?

 

5.  It seems like this character is not going to generate a lot of stacks of assassin's focus.  Do we worry about trying to get auto-crits on assassin's strike, or just use it on cooldown?

 

6.  I've got Frost five-slotted with Positron's Blast plus one more dam/range enhancement from a yellow set.  I was thinking that once I'm 50, I'd +5 boost the orphan damage/range.  Not sure where that will leave me in terms of total frost range, I'm at 12.68 feet now at level 32.  Is there value in chasing more range enhancement here?

 

7.  Any particular comments about actually playing this combo?

Edited June 2, 2020 by aethereal
Precise range of Frosts.

[r0y]

I, too, have recently made an Ice/Bio (on test, but created one on live, as well).

 

I am looking at what is more efficient:  Proc'ing the HELL out of Freezing Touch, Mostly-Proc'ing™ it, or just 5 winters+1 proc. 

 

On test, it sure feels like 4 procs is a sweet-spot, but it could just be RNG (since default recharge is 15s, the 3.5ppm's will miss more often, if my estimation is correct).

 

Definitely proc-out DNA Siphon!  Way too good not to do this on all those PBAoE heals (dark's, rad armor's, bio's).  It's a very hard-hitting damage attack that heals and gives endurance (thanks to a theft of essence).

 

Here is my first stab at a build (not super survivable, but it's a stalker, not a tank).  Pictures for the lazy (like me):

Spoiler

The MIDS Build:

Spoiler

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Fridgita: Level 50 Natural Stalker
Primary Power Set: Ice Melee
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Soul Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Ice Sword -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(43), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(45), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(45), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(46), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(46)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(5), Ksm-ToHit+(40)
Level 2: Frost -- SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(A), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(5), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(40), AirBrs-Dmg/Rng(42), PstBls-Dmg/EndRdx(43), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(43)
Level 4: Boundless Energy -- EffAdp-EndMod(A), EffAdp-EndMod/Rchg(17), NmnCnv-Heal(19), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(19)
Level 6: Assassin's Ice Sword -- Hct-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), Hct-Acc/Rchg(7), Hct-Dmg/Rchg(7), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(9), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(15), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(17)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), DefBuff-I(9)
Level 10: Environmental Modification -- Rct-Def(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx(11), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(11), Rct-Def/Rchg(13), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(13), Rct-ResDam%(15)
Level 12: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 14: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 16: Adaptation 
Level 18: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 20: Hardened Carapace -- UnbGrd-ResDam(A), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(21), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(21), UnbGrd-Rchg/ResDam(25)
Level 22: Ablative Carapace -- DctWnd-Rchg(A), DctWnd-EndRdx/Rchg(23), DctWnd-Heal/Rchg(23), DctWnd-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(25), DctWnd-Heal(46)
Level 24: Kick -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(48), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(50), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 26: Freezing Touch -- Hct-Dmg(A), Hct-Dmg/EndRdx(27), Hct-Dam%(27), NrnSht-Dam%(37), GhsWdwEmb-Dam%(37), UnbCns-Dam%(37)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- ThfofEss-Heal/Rchg(A), ThfofEss-+End%(29), Erd-%Dam(29), ScrDrv-Dam%(34), Obl-%Dam(36), Arm-Dam%(36)
Level 30: Tough -- UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(A), UnbGrd-Max HP%(31), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(31), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(31), GldArm-3defTpProc(50)
Level 32: Frozen Aura -- ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg(A), ScrDrv-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(33), ScrDrv-Dam%(33), Erd-%Dam(33), Obl-%Dam(34), FuroftheG-ResDeb%(34)
Level 35: Moonbeam -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/Rchg(36), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(39), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(39), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(40), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(48)
Level 38: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(39), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(42)
Level 41: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(42)
Level 44: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(45), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(48)
Level 47: Genetic Corruption -- FrtHyp-Plct%(A)
Level 49: Shadow Meld -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Run-I(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(3)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Jump-I(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(3)
------------

 

EDIT:  went into Mids' DPS calc (CTRL+Z) and did the automagical chain for each (one with procs x4, other had 1 proc & WTO):

    Freezing Touch with 4 damage procs + 2 hecatomb (Dam, Dam/End)                = 205.09 dps

    Freezing Touch with 1 damage proc + 5 Sup Blistering Colds (all but Acc/Dam) = 173.90 dps

This is the calculator's automagical attack chain, I only flipped Freezing Touch, so everything else is the same.

Edited June 2, 2020 by r0y

[tidge]

I like the build suggestion.

 

With my /Bio Stalker I shift between the different adaptations as necessary; I've found that (while leveling, pre-incarnate) Endurance can be managed pretty well with some different slotting. I'll post the key differences on Health/Stamina here:

 

Spoiler

------------

 

Level 4: Boundless Energy -- Pnc-Heal/EndRedux:50(A), Pnc-Heal/Rchg:50(9), Pnc-Heal/EndRedux/Rchg:50(11), Pnc-Heal:50(11), Pnc-Heal/+End:50(13)

 

Level 20: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Heal:50(A), Prv-Heal/EndRdx:50(33), Prv-EndRdx/Rchg:50(33), Prv-Heal/Rchg:50(34), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx:50(34), Prv-Absorb%:50(34)

Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+:40(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%:50(A), PrfShf-EndMod:50(50)
------------

 

My build is using one more slot (in the shown powers), but that is driven by my wanting the 6th-set bonus (+8.75% Global Recharge) from Preventive Medicine. If the Recharge isn't key, it can be held at 5-piece bonuses. Essentially my recommendation would be to replace a 5-slot Doctored Wounds with a 5-Slot Panacea (in an Auto power).

 

I'm considering on breaking up the 2-piece Performance Shifter as I think I can eek out more Recovery by moving the slot to Boundless Energy and slotting a 50+5 IO there.

Edited June 2, 2020 by tidge

[aethereal]

Five-slotting Boundless Energy with a set that includes lots of things it doesn't need (end/recharge) seems like...  a lot.  It's got the 7.5% recharge, obviously.  But you could get the same things minus the set bonuses by dropping two slots and doing the panacea proc + two common heal IOs, I think.

[Sgt. Terminus]

My main for quite some time has been a Ice/Bio.   Below is my current build and here are some things to share based on my experience.

 

1.  I have Genetic Corruption, remember Frozen Aura still has a sleep component as well so when you use it out of hide in a middle of +4/8 group, you will notice the pause in minions and some lts that gives you a small window of them not attacking.  Although the build seems so sturdy now I might drop it for ball of lightning.

 

2. Proc away

 

3.  I focused on Energy Def First since you have no built in resistance for it and end game is full of energy attacks.  Shadow Meld takes too long to activate, plus you have Ice Patch one of the set defining powers that you can always find uses for.   Even in end game, BAF for example, to help with the prisoner escape phase something that you can still fail at it occasionally.

 

4.  I use ice sword along with the snipe for ST along wih FT and AS.   Not sure about putting four damage procs in Freezing Touch, the highest melee DPA attack of them all, doesn't make sense to me.   5 slotting the winter set with the hold proc is awesome, that comes from playing the game, not a simulation or attacking a pylon.  You will routinely be holding bosses so they can't run.  Plus you can put the other purple damage proc in another attack

 

5.  The downside to Ice is that Frozen Aura is bugged and won't add assassin's focus.  Hopefully that will get fixed.

 

6.  I slot as much Range as I could, well over 14ft.  Remember to jump up and turn it into a PBAOE.

 

7.  You have so many different levels of protection, don't stress out about the soft cap,  with two powers providing absorb, your meager Stalker hit points really aren't so meager so building regen actually helps.  I went over board on end recovery just because I never want to run out of end, malta and carnies are no problem, plus it is cool to see your recovery stat go blue when you hit the cap.

 

In my opinion, nothing is going to boost your damage as much as the Hide proc going off in it so you want to keep it as close to 90% chance as possible.  Keep your recharge below approx 60% key, you want to try to build some focus anyway.  Of course I like my builds to handle all content grouping and solo, I don't see many times where I need repeat an attack chain over and over to worry about it being optimal.  Most things are on the ground after a few hits.

 

It is a very powerful combo, hope you enjoy it as much as I have 🙂

 

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.0.7
https://github.com/ImaginaryDevelopment/imaginary-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Stalker
Primary Power Set: Ice Melee
Secondary Power Set: Bio Armor
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Mu Mastery

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Ice Sword -- SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg(A), SprAssMar-Dmg/Rchg(3), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(7), SprAssMar-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(13), SprAssMar-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(37), SprAssMar-Rchg/Rchg Build Up(42)
Level 1: Hide -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 2: Hardened Carapace -- RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx(A), RctArm-ResDam(3), RctArm-ResDam/Rchg(5), RctArm-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(17), GldArm-3defTpProc(34)
Level 4: Frost -- AirBrs-Dmg/Rng(A), PstBls-Dmg/Rng(5), SprStlGl-Dmg/Rchg(7), Dtn-Dmg/Rng(11), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(25), SprStlGl-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 6: Boundless Energy -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(19), NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(19), NmnCnv-Heal(40)
Level 8: Assassin's Ice Sword -- Hct-Dam%(A), TchofDth-Acc/Dmg(9), TchofDth-Dam%(9), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg(11), SprStlGl-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(17), SprStlGl-Rchg/Hide%(34)
Level 10: Environmental Modification -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), Rct-ResDam%(13), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(15), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(15), LucoftheG-Def(45), LucoftheG-Def/Rchg(46)
Level 12: Build Up -- GssSynFr--Build%(A)
Level 14: Kick -- KntCmb-Acc/Dmg(A), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx(42), KntCmb-Dmg/Rchg(50), KntCmb-Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(50)
Level 16: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 18: Adaptation 
Level 20: Ablative Carapace -- Prv-Heal/Rchg(A), Prv-Heal/Rchg/EndRdx(21), NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(21), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(23)
Level 22: Ice Patch -- RechRdx-I(A)
Level 24: Tough -- UnbGrd-Max HP%(A), UnbGrd-ResDam(25), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx(40), UnbGrd-ResDam/EndRdx/Rchg(43), StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(43)
Level 26: Freezing Touch -- SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx(A), UnbCns-Dam%(27), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(27), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(29), SprBlsCol-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(31), SprBlsCol-Rchg/HoldProc(37)
Level 28: DNA Siphon -- TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(A), TchoftheN-Acc/EndRdx/Heal/HP/Regen(29), Obl-%Dam(31), Erd-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Erd-%Dam(48), Erd-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(48)
Level 30: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(31)
Level 32: Frozen Aura -- FuroftheG-ResDeb%(A), Arm-Dam%(33), Arm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg/Rchg(33), Arm-Dmg(34), Arm-Acc/Rchg(37)
Level 35: Zapp -- SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg(A), SprWntBit-Dmg/EndRdx/Acc/Rchg(36), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(36), SprWntBit-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(42), SprWntBit-Rchg/SlowProc(46)
Level 38: Parasitic Aura -- NmnCnv-Heal/Rchg(A), NmnCnv-Heal/EndRdx/Rchg(39), Prv-Heal/Rchg(39), Prv-Absorb%(40)
Level 41: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 44: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(45), ShlWal-Def(45), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(46), ShlWal-Def/Rchg(50)
Level 47: Super Jump -- WntGif-ResSlow(A)
Level 49: Genetic Corruption -- FrtHyp-Plct%(A)
Level 1: Assassination 
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Dash -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Slide -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Quick -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Rush -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Prestige Power Surge -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 4: Ninja Run 
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- Mrc-Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(23)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-EndMod(A), PrfShf-End%(43)
Level 18: Defensive Adaptation 
Level 18: Efficient Adaptation 
Level 18: Offensive Adaptation 
Level 50: Barrier Core Epiphany 
Level 50: Musculature Radial Paragon 
Level 1: Quick Form 
------------

[tidge]

4 hours ago, aethereal said:

Five-slotting Boundless Energy with a set that includes lots of things it doesn't need (end/recharge) seems like...  a lot.  It's got the 7.5% recharge, obviously.  But you could get the same things minus the set bonuses by dropping two slots and doing the panacea proc + two common heal IOs, I think.

In my build, it really is about the set bonuses (for Global Recharge). My point (to @r0ybuild) was more about replacing a 5-slot Preventive Medicine with a 5-slot Panacea... and since you want the Panacea proc in an Auto, that is where I dropped it in my build. Franken-slotting those powers (Health, Stamina, Boundless Energy, Ablative Carapace) is a perfectly fine choice.

 

I'm less bothered (on a 50+ build) by slotting a Heal/End in an Auto power than I am by using a Numina +Regen/+Recovery proc. In my experience the benefits to Regen are rarely worth it (on a build that already has large Regen), and even it's Recovery boost is very small for many of my builds. I know it is common wisdom to slot Panacea/Numina/Miracle procs, but Numina is pretty far down on the list, for me. YMMV. On certain toons: I'd sooner use that slot to get a 2 (or 3) piece Defense buff from Blessing of the Zephyr.

[Microcosm]

I'm not a huge fan of bio in general, but I love my ice/bio stalker. The two sets complement each other very well. On mine I took everything from bio--Genetic Corruption may look bad, but it stacks with Frozen Aura as Sgt Terminus said, and it has a hefty -dam debuff. I think everyone generally answered your questions, but I'll add that I went proc heavy and don't regret it.

[r0y]

2 hours ago, Sgt. Terminus said:

Not sure about putting four damage procs in Freezing Touch, the highest melee DPA attack of them all, doesn't make sense to me.

You REALLY, REALLY need to test this on the test server.  You might just be surprised.  Just form my testing, it was like night and day.  I tested against a +4 (54) Ravager in Dark Astoria (I was level 50, zero incarnate stuff).

 

[r0y]

2 hours ago, Sgt. Terminus said:

Although the build seems so sturdy now I might drop it for ball of lightning.

If you are only taking the snipe in Mu Mastery, you might be better off with Moonbeam, as it hits significantly harder, and can be proc'd out more (if you chose to go that route).

[Microcosm]

8 minutes ago, r0y said:

If you are only taking the snipe in Mu Mastery, you might be better off with Moonbeam, as it hits significantly harder, and can be proc'd out more (if you chose to go that route).

Mids doesn't show the correct damage. Zapp and Moonbeam hit for the same (sans a given enemy's damage resistance to one or the other type).

[r0y]

5 minutes ago, Microcosm said:

Mids doesn't show the correct damage. Zapp and Moonbeam hit for the same (sans a given enemy's damage resistance to one or the other type).

Ah, I did not know this.  Then I'd take Zapp, as it probably has a quicker activation (moonbeam seems sluggish for a quickform snipe).  I could be wrong there, too.  Although, the extra damage proc (Cloud Senses) might make up for it.

Edited June 3, 2020 by r0y

[Croax]

To jump ob the disussion here, i would like to add 2 things.

 

1. Moonbeam and Zapp are the same except damaget type and sets to use in.

 

2. I spend a lot of time on the test server figuring out which Stalker primary would have the best Single Target Attack chain.

I tested all of them and the finallists were Savage, Street Justice, Ice and Psi. Using a rotation to get 3 Stacks of Assassin Focus was crucial to the dps. Also i would utilize the hardest hitting ability after AS. The hard hitter would crit allmost every time. Now what the 4 set have in common is that their Hard hitters all have a Hold option, so slotting Unbreakable Constrain Proc was possible. The purple procs deal a significant amount of damage to the target. After testing out optimal attack chains with the 4 sets i started varying the procs and slots. The highest Damage was with 5 Hecatomb using the purple proc and 1 proc unbreakable constrain. The reason is that the Powers would all crit, dealing double damage. Procs do not crit. After +5 all the enhancements the damage would go up slightly but not so remarkable that i would generally recommend it for everyone. Using Procs is a good way to maximize Damage, but do not go too far with it, because Stalkers are the best Crit dealers in the game. I used Musculature Incarnate and left out the pure Damage Hecatomb IO. My optimal Attack chain for Ice was:FT->IS->Frost->AS repeat. Not using the snipe, because of the AF stacks was generally a dps increase. In some cases it was roughly the same, but in that cases like Ice i would not use the snipe, because it would open up build opportunities.

 

 

TLDR: Use 5 Hecatomb + 1Unb. Const. Proc in Freezing touch, because crits and all snipes are kind of cool. (Pun intended)

[tidge]

7 hours ago, Croax said:

TLDR: Use 5 Hecatomb + 1Unb. Const. Proc in Freezing touch

This is similar to the the slotting I have in my Street Justice Scrapper's Crushing Uppercut. Rather than the extra Hold proc for (more) Smashing, I went with one of the Psi procs for a different damage type. For my damage-dealing toons it is typical that at 50+ my builds generally end up with only two procs in any given attack: One from a set with bonuses I want (often Global Recharge from a 5-piece Purple) and one from an appropriate damage type. For me %Damage slots are the first ones I consider moving if I need slots elsewhere.

 

I don't object to proc %Damage in principle, but the biggest benefit of %Damage is for AT which do relatively small amounts of damage.

 

I'll admit I don't know the answer to this question: Does Build Up have an effect on proc %Damage? I'm reasonably sure that %Damage wasn't buffed on Live.

Edited June 3, 2020 by tidge

[Substaticman]

8 hours ago, Croax said:

Not using the snipe, because of the AF stacks was generally a dps increase. In some cases it was roughly the same, but in that cases like Ice i would not use the snipe, because it would open up build opportunities.

 

 

TLDR: Use 5 Hecatomb + 1Unb. Const. Proc in Freezing touch, because crits and all snipes are kind of cool. (Pun intended)

Great info!

 

In the case you don't really "need" a snipe, which Epic Pool AOE power do you think best works with Stalker and Hide? I would feel a bit more useful by having an extra AOE attack at times.

Edited June 3, 2020 by Substaticman

[Sgt. Terminus]

1 hour ago, Substaticman said:

Great info!

 

In the case you don't really "need" a snipe, which Epic Pool AOE power do you think best works with Stalker and Hide? I would feel a bit more useful by having an extra AOE attack at times.

I have been rethinking using a snipe too thanks to this thread, I really don't use it that often when I stop and think about it and personally don't like using that many slots just for a mule.  The two contenders for me would be Leviathan for a more unconventional Water Spout, more of a temporary pet you set and forget (slotting fun things in it like the FF recharge proc) and of course Blaze Mastery for the Fireball and its glorious 1 sec activation time, if you can spare the extra power.  Both pools have a hold as well that would synergize well with Freezing Touch and have multiple procs if you want to have that additional tool.

[Glowworm]

10 hours ago, Croax said:

FT->IS->Frost->AS repeat.

This is my chain on my ice/bio and it works really well.

[Substaticman]

9 minutes ago, Sgt. Terminus said:

I have been rethinking using a snipe too thanks to this thread, I really don't use it that often when I stop and think about it and personally don't like using that many slots just for a mule.  The two contenders for me would be Leviathan for a more unconventional Water Spout, more of a temporary pet you set and forget (slotting fun things in it like the FF recharge proc) and of course Blaze Mastery for the Fireball and its glorious 1 sec activation time, if you can spare the extra power.  Both pools have a hold as well that would synergize well with Freezing Touch and have multiple procs if you want to have that additional tool.

Oh wow I forgot about fireball.  Do these all also take advantage of the Hide crit mechanic?

 

3 minutes ago, Glowworm said:

This is my chain on my ice/bio and it works really well.

 

I have a Ice/Bio at 30, but before I went higher I have to ask how does it do at +4/x8 solo mission?  Can it reliably take out groups if needed?

 

[Croax]

Oh, nice to see so many people react here on the thread of Ice/.

 

7 hours ago, tidge said:

Does Build Up have an effect on proc %Damage?

No The Damage is still the same, that is the reason a lot of low Damage AT like Defenders love procs. For Stalkers they are a reasonable damage increase, but not the only real source. See my testing results below.

 

4 hours ago, Substaticman said:

Great info!

What i said about snipes and AF stacks only applys to the forementioned sets in a single target situation. Using /Bio area leech buff as a proc mule is a very good idea. it is unbelievably strong. And having a snipe on a Elec/ Stalker is mandatory for having a hard hitter after AS. Do not take the Info out of context please.

 

For Area Damage Water Sprout, Fireball and Bal Lightning would be my choices, because i hate Cones. The build opportunity would more or less be Body mastery to get 2 powers that will fix your endurance problems on a /Inv for example, you can have 2 Powers with no more slots invested to get all the endurance you like and have more slots for all the other powers. But YMMV.

 

I found my old spreadsheet for ice/. Just a copy from it i don't remember a lot of the testing so precicely:

 

Spoiler

					2 HamiO Acc/Dam		2 HamiO Acc/Dam
	5 Hecatomb slots		5 Hecatomb slots		1 unbreak		1 unbreak
	1 Unbreak		1 Unbreak		1 heca		1 heca
					1 Ghostwidow		1 Ghostwidow
					1 Neuronic		1 Neuronic
	Freezing Touch		Freezing Touch		Freezing Touch		Freezing Touch
			Build Up				Build Up
	329,11	base	528,55	base	310,94	base	523,1	base
	321,69	krit	529,54	krit	304,61	krit	512,46	krit
	85,66	unbreak	85,66	unbreak	85,66	unbreak	85,66	unbreak
	85,66	Hecatomb	85,66	Hecatomb	85,66	Hecatomb	85,66	Hecatomb
					57,39	Ghostwidow	57,39	Ghostwidow
					57,39	Neuronic	57,39	Neuronic
Sum	822,12		1229,41		901,65		1321,66

 

The Damage with completely relying on proc is bigger if all of them go off. But it is a small increase, and if only one of them does not proc, it is not that big of a difference anymore. Not having the great bonuses of purple sets was a big deal on most of my builds. so the most reasonable decision was to only use the high damage purple procs that deal 85 instead of 57 damage and get all the bonuses i can.

[aethereal]

So in terms of should moonbeam (or zapp) be part of the ST rotation -- do stalker epic snipes get damage bonuses from +to-hit the way that Blaster snipes do?  If so, are people making the comparison with that in mind?  It seems like with offensive adaptation, the uptime of build-up for a stalker, and potentially things like the kismet +to-hit special enhancement, or tactics or something, it could make a noticeable difference.

[Microcosm]

5 hours ago, aethereal said:

So in terms of should moonbeam (or zapp) be part of the ST rotation -- do stalker epic snipes get damage bonuses from +to-hit the way that Blaster snipes do?  If so, are people making the comparison with that in mind?  It seems like with offensive adaptation, the uptime of build-up for a stalker, and potentially things like the kismet +to-hit special enhancement, or tactics or something, it could make a noticeable difference.

Yep, they do, and yep, the +tohit in bio makes them stronger. I generally take Leviathan on stalkers because Waterspout and Hibernate are amazing, but for bio I go Soul to get Shadow Meld and Moonbeam every time.

[tidge]

I have Moonbeam as part of my Spines/Bio rotation. Hide is the mule for the Kismet +6% ToHit, and Build Up has the Gaussian proc (firing at 90%) for even more +ToHit. If you have waited long enough to go into Hidden, you should be ready for a slow snipe for even more damage. I have Moonbeam 6 slotted: 5xSting of the Manticore (w/ %Toxic) and a Gladiator's Javelin (%Toxic).

 

The part I like best about having it is that streakbreaker forces Moonbeam to hit if the Assassin's Impaler misses, which takes a lot of the sting out of the initial miss. I even wrote a poem about it:

 

 

Edited June 5, 2020 by tidge
Hide not Tough

[Hjarki]

On 6/3/2020 at 3:26 AM, Croax said:

Not using the snipe, because of the AF stacks was generally a dps increase. In some cases it was roughly the same, but in that cases like Ice i would not use the snipe, because it would open up build opportunities.

In a simplistic sense, an AF stack is worth 33% of Assassinate dps. So the question becomes: is the dpa of your replacement attack plus 33% of the dpa of your Assassinate greater than the dpa of the Sniper attack?

 

In the case of Ice, the answer is no. The dpa of Ice Sword is ~50 while the dpa of Assassinate is ~83. The dpa of the sniper attack is ~140.

Edited June 5, 2020 by Hjarki

[kiramon]

I feel like having more than 6 attacks, unless the 7th is a nuke, is a waste. But that’s probably

just for me, as 1-6 are my only truly effective dps keys... 🙂 

Edited June 5, 2020 by kiramon

[aethereal]

I see that both builds listed on this thread use the Fortunata's Hypnosis Placate proc in genetic corruption.  I was kind of vaguely thinking of the heal proc from call of the sandman.  I haven't used any placate in the homecoming era.  Is the thought here just that it's a bit more damage mitigation from people not attacking you?  Or are you trying to set up more crits?

Edited June 5, 2020 by aethereal

[Hjarki]

6 minutes ago, aethereal said:

I see that both builds listed on this thread use the Fortunata's Hypnosis Placate proc in genetic corruption.  I was kind of vaguely thinking of the heal proc from call of the sandman.  I haven't used any placate in the homecoming era.  Is the thought here just that it's a bit more damage mitigation from people not attacking you?  Or are you trying to set up more crits?

Slotting Call of the Sandman into Frozen Aura makes some sense in many builds. Slotting it into Genetic Corruption makes almost no sense because Bio is already a regen-intensive set.

 

That being said, Fortunata Hypnosis Placate doesn't make a whole lot of sense either. It's a Mag 2 Placate, which means that every now and then you get auto-crits on... minions. I'm not going to say that's completely useless, but it's awfully close. About the only reason I can see for slotting it would be because you're muling the power for set bonuses.