-Res and KB (?)

[roleki]

2 hours ago, Luminara said:

 

I'd forgotten about that.  Thank you.

 

A bug could've been introduced in that change, but if there was an unintended and unanticipated interaction between K* and -Res, there should be reports all over the forums, give the popularity and wide availability of -Res, and the increased of acceptance of KB due to the KB-KD proc.  The vector change shouldn't have altered OSA's KD in any way, since OilSlickOil's KD was already radial from itself, being a PBAoE.  None of the other PBAoE K* powers are causing KB, apparently, and there are more than enough -Res powers and procs for it to have been noticed and reported by multiple other people.  There's just no chatter indicating this.

 

@Redlynne's speculation is interesting, but the conclusion erroneous, since OSA is always first in the attack sequence, the reverse order of what she suggests might cause an increase in K* mag.  If -Res increased K* mag when it was applied after the K*, it should also be much more prevelant and easily reproducible by anyone with -Res and K*.  And, again, there aren't any other reports of that.  And DA can't self-stack on the initial usage, and only self-stacks for 0.25s every subsequent 5s, so it wouldn't be capable of causing increased K* mag until 5s after the fact.

 

@roleki's observations point to OilSlickTarget, not DA, because it only occurs when OST is present, but that's not actually possible.  OST only has one critter-interactive ability, a -100 Threat reduction.  No attacks, no K*, and the only -Res it applies is to itself.  The only interaction between OST and DA is -Res, and we know that neither -Res on a target with +Res, nor stacked -Res (both would apply to OST), cause K*.  There just isn't anything there to cause or increase the mag of K*.  Unless the HC team have been toying with Threat reduction code.

 

The increased frequency of occurence with Death Mages is suggestive.  Kamikaze is Interruptible... but doesn't cause K*, as far as I can tell, and wouldn't be used at the beginning of a fight, or send the critter using it flying.  No information is available (to me) on whether or not Death Mages are susceptible to K*, or have a power which provides status effect protection and can be Interrupted.  That's something that can be tested, if anyone's interested.

 

I believe there's something else going on.  Another player in the background using a K* power, an overlooked proc, an Incarnate ability which increases status effects/K*, or use of a second K* power unintentionally (which would definitely be all but imperceptible in OSA's graphics).  Those are the possibilities which seem most likely.

@Luminara Just to be clear, the issue only appears when I have deployed Disruption Arrow *before* igniting the Oil Slick, and based on testing I have done since starting this thread, the effect is exaggerated when I have the Annihilation -Res proc in Oil Slick Arrow.  If I light the Oil Slick *then* deploy DA, I have not seen any repel/KB effects.  I have *NOT* tried replicating it with Acid Arrow (another -Res) in place of DA but will give it a shot.  

 

I am inclined to think this is down to a weird interaction between stacked -Res; I don't even think it qualifies as a bug, it's just something that happens when X, Y, and Z converge. 

[Bopper]

7 minutes ago, roleki said:

the issue only appears when I have deployed Disruption Arrow *before* igniting the Oil Slick, and based on testing I have done since starting this thread, the effect is exaggerated when I have the Annihilation -Res proc in Oil Slick Arrow.

Your original post made no mention of igniting the Oil Slick when you saw bodies go flying. So I want to make sure I understand correctly as to when you see the bodies get knocked back, that way if I tested it wrong I can go back and try to replicate your results with the proper steps.

 

You mentioned using Flash Arrow > OSA > DA  (then you saw bodies flying).

 

Should it be Flash Arrow > OSA > DA > Ignite OSA (then you see bodies flying)?

[Redlynne]

22 minutes ago, Bopper said:

Everything else we should have seen no change in performance.

SHOULD ...

 

But there's always an edge case ...

[Bopper]

4 minutes ago, Redlynne said:

SHOULD ...

 

But there's always an edge case ...

Until we see it, we can't make up reasons/mechanics for why something isn't working. And there isn't always an edge case, there could be an edge case. 

[Bopper]

19 hours ago, roleki said:

Of those, it's CoT that are affected the most, and oddly enough, usually level 50 Death Mages. 

I just tested again, this time making myself +1 level shift (Musculature Radial, fwiw). I hit Flash Arrow, I dropped OSA, I dropped DA...saw no violent KB on the level 50 death mage, just the typical knockdown. I then ignited the OSA, still no violent KB.

 

I tested again, this time dropping an Ice Slick as well, hoping double KB might stack. Ran all the same steps again, still didn't see it.

 

There might be something else at play that we're not seeing. Can you show us your build and tell us everything that is toggled on? Ideally, I wish we could post videos again. That would tell a much better story.

[Luminara]

1 hour ago, roleki said:

Luminara Just to be clear, the issue only appears when I have deployed Disruption Arrow *before* igniting the Oil Slick, and based on testing I have done since starting this thread, the effect is exaggerated when I have the Annihilation -Res proc in Oil Slick Arrow.  If I light the Oil Slick *then* deploy DA, I have not seen any repel/KB effects.

 

I understand the sequence.  Your posts have been concise.

 

1 hour ago, roleki said:

I am inclined to think this is down to a weird interaction between stacked -Res; I don't even think it qualifies as a bug, it's just something that happens when X, Y, and Z converge.

 

It's not stacked Resistance debuffs.

 

What Incarnate abilities do you have?  What is your tray arrangement for all of your primary and secondary powers?  Where is your pet when this occurs and what is it doing?  How is the pet slotted?  Do you have any procs in other powers, which could potentially cause the issue, or sets with +KB mag as a set bonus?  What buffs are active on you when it occurs (including things like Day Job and P2W temp powers)?  Have you double-checked the enhancements in your powers to be certain a proc didn't wiggle in accidentally (i've slotted a proc unintentionally more than once and had to waste a respec to fix it)?

 

Each variable isolated narrows the search for the cause.

[Doomguide2005]

What is the base K* mag of Osa?

 

And would a character being 2 or 3 levels greater increase that KD mag enough to create KB instead?

[Bopper]

1 hour ago, Doomguide2005 said:

What is the base K* mag of Osa?

 

And would a character being 2 or 3 levels greater increase that KD mag enough to create KB instead?

0.5 mag, triggered every 0.2s (unless it changed from live)

[roleki]

Just to follow-up, I'm about 86% convinced this is happening on account of mobs getting confused by Arctic Air.  I can't say I'm 100% convinced, because I am absolutely certain I've seen this happen when I was nowhere near melee range, but the last couple of times I've been able to recreate it, I was in melee and there ARE confused among the mob AND I have NOT been able to recreate it with AA off.

[Bopper]

Thank you for this follow up. This one has left me very puzzled. When I tested, I'm almost certain I was always at range. I'll need to see about what happens when at melee distances. I dont know how confuse will play a part, it seems it has a chance for a mag 3 that doesn't stack, and you mentioned Bosses (Death Mages) flying...but i don't think they'd succumb to the confuse effects.

 

If confuse is playing a part, is it possible the confused enemies are doing KB, causing these effects? I dont know how Disruption arrow would trigger it, but who knows.

[Luminara]

41 minutes ago, roleki said:

Just to follow-up, I'm about 86% convinced this is happening on account of mobs getting confused by Arctic Air.  I can't say I'm 100% convinced, because I am absolutely certain I've seen this happen when I was nowhere near melee range, but the last couple of times I've been able to recreate it, I was in melee and there ARE confused among the mob AND I have NOT been able to recreate it with AA off.

 

Confuse, Portal Corp courtyard, Possessed Scientists with KB attacks...  Looks like you're homing in on something.  Test some spawns of critters without KB attacks.