Sell me Taunt.

[Sovera]

I return.

 

So. I took Taunt for one reason: it was common to do Tinpex and have Battle Maiden sit fat and happy in the blue circles while the meleers waited outside. The common cry (which I parroted) was 'Tank, use Taunt to get her out!'. In melee heavy teams it can take minutes to whittle her while the squishies in turn get whittled by the swords.

 

I took it, I used it, and to my surprise Battle Maiden ignored it. She not only does not walk out of the blue circles but to add insult to injury does not focus on me and continues hitting other team members. And before anyone asks I'm familiar with the concept of range pulling, AKA mob has 20 meter range, so walk 30 meters away instead of staying inside the 20 meters. This does nothing for her.

 

Then we have the giant robots in said Tinpex. After the sewers we have several of them spawning and roaming around killing the NPCs and the police drones. I, again, tried to use Taunt to peel them off the police drones and make one nice big ball of giant bots... and was unable as they ignored me. They will hit other team members, they will continue hitting the NPCs, etc.

 

During the fight against Bobcat and Neuron two of these spawn as AVs. I take the initiative to use Taunt to call them, and then use the old school method of turning them away from the team so that their cones and splashes do not hit them... except they ignore me, don't close in, and will hit whomever.

 

Basically Taunt seems to only work on the inconsequential: regular mobs. I'm not even sure it if really does work all that well since using them on something such as the Surgeons does not prevent them from spamming heals from range anyway.

 

Ignoring mechanics (100% -range does not meant 0 range, only % of range, which depending on the initial range can still mean 10 - 20meters) and 'tradition' (if you're a tank, you take Taunt, period!) I'm feeling tempted to ditch it and grab Vengeance to mule a LotG and still feel Vengeance itself would turn out more useful than Taunt has been.

[Bill Z Bubba]

Were you doing any damage on top of the taunting?

[Infinitum]

51 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I return.

 

So. I took Taunt for one reason: it was common to do Tinpex and have Battle Maiden sit fat and happy in the blue circles while the meleers waited outside. The common cry (which I parroted) was 'Tank, use Taunt to get her out!'. In melee heavy teams it can take minutes to whittle her while the squishies in turn get whittled by the swords.

 

I took it, I used it, and to my surprise Battle Maiden ignored it. She not only does not walk out of the blue circles but to add insult to injury does not focus on me and continues hitting other team members. And before anyone asks I'm familiar with the concept of range pulling, AKA mob has 20 meter range, so walk 30 meters away instead of staying inside the 20 meters. This does nothing for her.

 

Then we have the giant robots in said Tinpex. After the sewers we have several of them spawning and roaming around killing the NPCs and the police drones. I, again, tried to use Taunt to peel them off the police drones and make one nice big ball of giant bots... and was unable as they ignored me. They will hit other team members, they will continue hitting the NPCs, etc.

 

During the fight against Bobcat and Neuron two of these spawn as AVs. I take the initiative to use Taunt to call them, and then use the old school method of turning them away from the team so that their cones and splashes do not hit them... except they ignore me, don't close in, and will hit whomever.

 

Basically Taunt seems to only work on the inconsequential: regular mobs. I'm not even sure it if really does work all that well since using them on something such as the Surgeons does not prevent them from spamming heals from range anyway.

 

Ignoring mechanics (100% -range does not meant 0 range, only % of range, which depending on the initial range can still mean 10 - 20meters) and 'tradition' (if you're a tank, you take Taunt, period!) I'm feeling tempted to ditch it and grab Vengeance to mule a LotG and still feel Vengeance itself would turn out more useful than Taunt has been.

Nope, cant sell you something you dont need, envenomed daggers will pull battle maiden better than anything btw.

[Sovera]

51 minutes ago, Bill Z Bubba said:

Were you doing any damage on top of the taunting?

For Battle Maiden yes. For the giant bots, no. I realize Taunt in a multiplier and 400% of nothing is still nothing. This does not help selling Taunt though. If I have to hit things they will naturally get taunted by punchvoke anyway, where the selling point of Taunt is peeling mobs off the squishy team members from a distance while also applying -range.

 

 

8 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

Nope, cant sell you something you dont need, envenomed daggers will pull battle maiden better than anything btw.

Envenomed Daggers only does -regen and has no mention of taunt or -range. Do the AVs really really really hate -regen?

[Infinitum]

13 minutes ago, Sovera said:

For Battle Maiden yes. For the giant bots, no. I realize Taunt in a multiplier and 400% of nothing is still nothing. This does not help selling Taunt though. If I have to hit things they will naturally get taunted by punchvoke anyway, where the selling point of Taunt is peeling mobs off the squishy team members from a distance while also applying -range.

 

 

Envenomed Daggers only does -regen and has no mention of taunt or -range. Do the AVs really really really hate -regen?

All I know is I throw the dagger, the dagger hits her and she chases me out of the blue patch.

 

Don't know if it's gauntlet or what but it works.

I'm not selling taunt btw, I never take it.

[Sovera]

7 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

All I know is I throw the dagger, the dagger hits her and she chases me out of the blue patch.

 

Don't know if it's gauntlet or what but it works.

I'm not selling taunt btw, I never take it.

I'll have to try this then. Thanks for the tip, broseph.

[kiramon]

Mobs hate debuffs in general. 

[ironjoe]

Hamidon raid - Tanks are for the taunting team as the yellows ignore ranged attacks. Otherwise there is normally enough Scrapper, Stalkers, and Brutes for the melee team so your not really needed there. Alternatively you could have an alternate cheap build for hami raids or use an alt in another role for it.

 

MSR - There is use when herding on the MSR. Taunt a grate or two and you will hit agro cap quick. A damage aura also helps but taunting the grate gathers agro quicker. Alternatively you can brawl the grate (I prefer brawl even over T1 attack as it won't destroy the grate before the MSR is over) but this takes slightly more time than taunting the grate. You can also run with just a damage and/or taunt aura depending on your set but that is slower agro generation than the other two tactics. At least that has been my experience when I have timed speed to reach agro cap when herding an MSR. This one you can still work fine without it but my personal challenge on an MSR is herding as much as 2 other tanks are.

 

Normally I'm there with taunt for the battle field control of the -range to move groups into my and my teams AOEs/PBOEs but if you don't run a lot of content where that is useful, then maybe you don't have as much use for it. I play my tanks as melee controllers as much as anything else they do but if that isn't your play-style, then maybe it's not for you.

 

Then you have to take an honest look at your personal competency with/with out taunt. I have been on team when a tauntless tank/brute was fine with the enemies we were fighting... and then I have had teams were I had to step up with the Corrupter/Controller/ect that I was playing at the time just to keep the team alive because the tank couldn't hold agro for nothing. As long as your not that guy, then your fine.

[Gulbasaur]

2 hours ago, Sovera said:

Envenomed Daggers only does -regen and has no mention of taunt or -range. Do the AVs really really really hate -regen?

Debuffs have a high threat modifier, which is why debuff support sets grab aggro so well and Ice Tankers are so good at keeping it.

[Infinitum]

IKinda off topic, but I saw something the other night I had never seen.

 

We were on the battle maiden stage of the apex and my invul ss could actually let the blue patch hit and stand in it without much damage at first - for a good while actually.

 

I would have to move eventually but ive never experienced it where the blue patch wasnt brutal or instantly devastating.

[Sovera]

30 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

IKinda off topic, but I saw something the other night I had never seen.

 

We were on the battle maiden stage of the apex and my invul ss could actually let the blue patch hit and stand in it without much damage at first - for a good while actually.

 

I would have to move eventually but ive never experienced it where the blue patch wasnt brutal or instantly devastating.

I've been told (urban myth?) that the more swords destroyed the harder the blue hits. A team that knows this and focuses in kiting instead of hitting everything that moves should be able to produce this. Assuming it is correct.

[BZRKR]

Taunt is most useful to me in two activities: 

1: Grabbing aggro from teammates in lower level task/strike forces, especially when one too many groups of enemies get aggroed (Especially in the tilted abandoned lab map in Posi 2)

 

2: Herding in the MSR, which @ironjoe covered above. Taunt, especially if slotted with an IO that adds range, is helpful for staying closer to the ramps when you go out on the flat part of the ship so that you get more credit for kills happening in the bowl.

 

A corner case for taking Taunt beyond the above might be to take a "one slot wonder" power AFTER you have exhausted options for useful IO mules.

[BZRKR]

1 minute ago, Sovera said:

33 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

IKinda off topic, but I saw something the other night I had never seen.

 

We were on the battle maiden stage of the apex and my invul ss could actually let the blue patch hit and stand in it without much damage at first - for a good while actually.

 

I would have to move eventually but ive never experienced it where the blue patch wasnt brutal or instantly devastating.

I've been told (urban myth?) that the more swords destroyed the harder the blue hits. A team that knows this and focuses in kiting instead of hitting everything that moves should be able to produce this. Assuming it is correct.

With Apex being a target Task Force this week, there should be plenty of opportunity to explore this!

[nihilii]

War Walkers EBs and Battle Maiden in Apex both have special AI rules. They're set to aggressively chase a team member once they spawn. If a team member is outside the battle area (i.e. still in the sewers or at mission entrance, or by the chopper in the second mission), then they might get stuck trying to chase that person and ignore other threats. I think dead bodies can mess with their AI too. That might be why you're experiencing such weird behavior.

 

21 minutes ago, Sovera said:

I've been told (urban myth?) that the more swords destroyed the harder the blue hits. A team that knows this and focuses in kiting instead of hitting everything that moves should be able to produce this. Assuming it is correct.

I could be wrong, but I'd wager blue patch damage is more likely to be tied to Battle Maiden's health checkpoints than blue swords. Beginning of the fight, kill as many blue swords as you want, and if you're not lowering Battle Maiden's life, the blue patch will hit for ~50 unresistable damage per tick. Near the end of the fight, when she's below 25%, it might deal ~170. There seems to be some randomness as well, i.e. you can still get a patch dealing 50 damage per tick by the end of the fight, right after you took a patch dealing 170 damage per tick.

 

Other theory: there's several completely different entities for blue patches. The blue patch you get when she hits you (the only one that exists in her first phase) deals 50 or 90 damage per tick. The blue patches that trigger every few seconds starting in the ambush phase deal 120 or 170 damage per tick.

I never bothered to test this conclusively, I just do a lot of solo, duo and multibox Apex. Could be talking out of my ass.

49 minutes ago, Infinitum said:

IKinda off topic, but I saw something the other night I had never seen.

 

We were on the battle maiden stage of the apex and my invul ss could actually let the blue patch hit and stand in it without much damage at first - for a good while actually.

 

I would have to move eventually but ive never experienced it where the blue patch wasnt brutal or instantly devastating.

Blue patches stack. So if you have 3-4 teammates in melee with you, you're going to have a bad time no matter what. But if you're the sole meleer, it's conceivable for a Tanker to take on BM and survive the early blue patches. Heck, I've found it doable to survive these early patches on Scrappers, even Stalkers and Sentinels. There are even Tanker builds that can take second phase blue patches, at least up to a point.

[Xanatos]

It's auto-hit.

[Infinitum]

2 hours ago, nihilii said:

War Walkers EBs and Battle Maiden in Apex both have special AI rules. They're set to aggressively chase a team member once they spawn. If a team member is outside the battle area (i.e. still in the sewers or at mission entrance, or by the chopper in the second mission), then they might get stuck trying to chase that person and ignore other threats. I think dead bodies can mess with their AI too. That might be why you're experiencing such weird behavior.

 

I could be wrong, but I'd wager blue patch damage is more likely to be tied to Battle Maiden's health checkpoints than blue swords. Beginning of the fight, kill as many blue swords as you want, and if you're not lowering Battle Maiden's life, the blue patch will hit for ~50 unresistable damage per tick. Near the end of the fight, when she's below 25%, it might deal ~170. There seems to be some randomness as well, i.e. you can still get a patch dealing 50 damage per tick by the end of the fight, right after you took a patch dealing 170 damage per tick.

 

Other theory: there's several completely different entities for blue patches. The blue patch you get when she hits you (the only one that exists in her first phase) deals 50 or 90 damage per tick. The blue patches that trigger every few seconds starting in the ambush phase deal 120 or 170 damage per tick.

I never bothered to test this conclusively, I just do a lot of solo, duo and multibox Apex. Could be talking out of my ass.

Blue patches stack. So if you have 3-4 teammates in melee with you, you're going to have a bad time no matter what. But if you're the sole meleer, it's conceivable for a Tanker to take on BM and survive the early blue patches. Heck, I've found it doable to survive these early patches on Scrappers, even Stalkers and Sentinels. There are even Tanker builds that can take second phase blue patches, at least up to a point.

Yeah I did it the whole time, it was pretty incredible-ive never done that before, so I wonder what makes the invul better at it than my shield when the shield is just as good in every other encounter.  I think my health got to halfway once and then I hit dull pain.

 

Could it be something to do with invincibility?

[Biff Pow]

It works great with no extra slotting.