Knockback Attack: Ranked Damage?

[Galaxy Brain]

So, I've made a thread on this before but I had a thought today that warranted it's own thread. 

 

A common idea to make Knockback more "super" is to add some sort of damage component either just directly when you cause KB, or if your target hits something. What has been the question though is how do you balance it / etc. The idea of course is that Knockback in most media sort of ends the fight. Throw mooks into the wall or across the room and they dont get back up. Toss another super through a wall and you can tell it hurt and inconvenienced them but it's not usually a fight ender. While Single Target knockback is usually not complained about as you have a ton of control over that, mass AoE knockback that scatters foes is lauded for causing chaos. 

 

What makes up the majority of mobs? Minions. Who are usually shown as being blown away and defeated? Minions...

 

Looks like there is a common theme here. Looking at some of the existing powers like judgements and even Scrapper criticals I realized... oh! We can have effects happen based on enemy rank!

 

The idea:

What if knockback attacks had some sort of reverse scrapper crit where you had a chance to deal "knockback damage", with the lower the rank the higher the chance?

 

Just throwing numbers out:

 

Minions and below = 50% damage chance

LTs = 25% chance

Bosses and above = 12.5% chance

 

Damage Type = Smashing

Damage = (Player lvl * 2) * (1 +(Magnitude / 10))

 

So for example, a power with mag 5 knockback would deal:

2 * 1.5 = 3 damage at lvl 1

100 * 1.5 = 150 damage at lvl 50

 

This could be flat, or work off the ATs (ranged?) Mod.

 

Depending on the power this could be a substantial bit of damage! The trick though would be the chance of it occurring based on the rank. The lower tier enemies you send flying everywhere? Good odds that they will take the bonus damage and may be defeated outright. Bosses? Lower chance they get hurt, but it still stings when they do.

 

The core here is that minions make up the majority of mobs, and so are the primary things to cause chaos when AoE scatter occurs. If the same power that caused scatter also directly helped eliminate the "fodder" it scatters, then it would be a lot more fun for all parties / sides of the fence.

 

Thoughts?

Edited July 13, 2020 by Galaxy Brain

[MTeague]

And if you try to knockback Mongo, you'll just make him mad. 🙂

I like it.  /signed.

 

would need to experiment for the exact numbers, but I like the idea.

Edited July 13, 2020 by MTeague

[Yomo Kimyata]

Really neat idea and I'd vote for it as long as it's not for knockback but for another effect like stun or immobilize.

 

Thanks to Force Feedback proc mainly and secondarily to Sudden Acceleration proc, I feel that KB oriented sets already have a clear advantage over any other effect, except maybe hold.  I'd hate to see that gap get wider.

[kelika2]

Counter idea, the less you knockback a target the more damage they take

[0th Power]

I love the idea @Galaxy Brain

 

11 minutes ago, kelika2 said:

Counter idea, the less you knockback a target the more damage they take

This makes no sense. 

[Galaxy Brain]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

Really neat idea and I'd vote for it as long as it's not for knockback but for another effect like stun or immobilize.

 

Thanks to Force Feedback proc mainly and secondarily to Sudden Acceleration proc, I feel that KB oriented sets already have a clear advantage over any other effect, except maybe hold.  I'd hate to see that gap get wider.

One thing I wanted to touch on was how to handle Knockdown here... maybe a condition where KB mag needs to be >1 for the chance to even occur? 

[kelika2]

2 hours ago, 0th Power said:

I love the idea @Galaxy Brain

 

This makes no sense. 

the distance they didnt go translates to damage.  whats not hard to understand?

the kinetic energy that makes them fly back far gets dispersed in the traveling, flip that and boom.

 

slot KB to KD for more damage

[MTeague]

1 hour ago, kelika2 said:

the distance they didnt go translates to damage.  whats not hard to understand?

the kinetic energy that makes them fly back far gets dispersed in the traveling, flip that and boom.

 

slot KB to KD for more damage

It's hard to translate this in any other way than "I despise knockback please don't add anything that might make it beneficial in any way".

[0th Power]

1 hour ago, Galaxy Brain said:

One thing I wanted to touch on was how to handle Knockdown here... maybe a condition where KB mag needs to be >1 for the chance to even occur? 

I don’t know if it should be zero. I know if I trip it doesn’t feel good when I hit the ground. 
 

[kelika2]

1 hour ago, MTeague said:

It's hard to translate this in any other way than "I despise knockback please don't add anything that might make it beneficial in any way".

I guarantee you most of the knocked back comic book hero/villains activate their own flight power to disperse the force of the hit.

 

I know in your mind the idea of throwing around Snyder Doomsday or Arkham games Grundy but nah, stop.  please.  there isnt even any destructible terrain for it to feel super.

[Saiyajinzoningen]

If distance = damage for attacks that cause some form of KB, then air superiority becomes potentially the strongest single target attack in the game. Which i am ok with as long as they include a neat crater animation for when your knock your foe to the ground from on high 🙂

[Lines]

I think the devs have been playing with vectored knockback, which could open up some cool possibilities like this.

 

I'm really excited for what knockback could become with a little more control.

[Galaxy Brain]

With regards to distance, a stronger force would totally send an object further and thus logically they'd take more of an impact/damage than if they were sent less distance or knocked on their butt. 

 

Given the utility benefit of setting KB to KD, I would like there to be at least a lesser effect if "KB Damage" becomes a thing if the mag is below the threshold and becomes knockdown.

 

 

[AerialAssault]

As someone who has no problem with Knockback, hell, even enjoy watching enemies fly around like bowling pins, I'd be all for this idea.

 

+1