'Dark' controller powerset + Possess power change

[1gecko]

First off, I really love the power - sure it is just another single target confuse, but it seems a bit more useful AND the color change plus glowing eyes is extremely neat.

 

However (there's ALWAYS a however!), as a player of a *number* of controllers/dominators, there are 2 things that I think justify a change:

1) As weird as it my sound, the Dark powerset seems to be actually the weakest (or definitely one of the weakest) of the various controller/dominator sets - it has the most restricted control ability in terms of numbers and area of the AoEs (though Ten. Tentacles is pretty good) AND it does the least damage (which is odder still as you would think Dark would be right behind Fire as a damage dealing set).  Once you get your dark-wolf pet, it gets a bit better - but by that time the other sets also are doing a LOT more damage.  It is also the hardest when it comes to choosing where to slot your AT IO's as putting them in your few damage dealers reduces your already low damage and most of the others receive minimal benefit OR are not something you use very much.

2) Possess (as a concept) should be 'more' to be in line with all stories / lore / folklore / fiction / movies - as it is the power is just another Confuse affect (albeit with cool graphics). Also increasing its power would be really improving the 'core concept' of the powerset: Sure the rest is nice, but isn't the thing that EVERYONE would fear about a Dark Controller / Dominator is being invaded by that otherworldly dark spirit that turns you into just a passenger in your own body (and you against your friends)?

 

Anyway - before I lose the TLDR crowd (probably already have, since there are more that 2 short sentences), I have a couple of suggestions that I think would greatly increase the fun and playability of the powerset and bring it more in line with the others in terms of power:

1) Change 'Possess' power to a Toggle - making the victim your pet until de-Toggled (and probably giving it an 'Enrage' buff after toggle drops while making it immune to the power for a short time). This would make the power a lot more fun, make your Possessed victim not be killed by the group/pets (like always seems to happen), and would increase your damage capabilities by having a pet sooner (and another pet at later levels).  While some might think this would make it TOO powerful, consider that as it is, the power refreshes fast enough it is relatively easy to keep 3 mobs possessed at a time - making it a Toggle might make one a semi-permanent pet (until you zone/lose toggle to a hold/stun), but it also means you ONLY have 1. 

2) Change 'Heart of Darkness' - as it is, only occasionally does it have much effect even well slotted (which kinda makes it not worth running up there among the enemy to use).  Add a 'contageous' Confuse effect to it so that those foes not disoriented are Confused and attack other enemies - that may 'catch' their confusion for the duration.  Since foes that solely defeat each other yield no exp, this wouldn't make this overwhelming or too powerful - plus it would just seem to 'fit' better in the concept of a Dark controller/dominator.

[Zeraphia]

On 7/14/2020 at 7:19 PM, 1gecko said:

As weird as it my sound, the Dark powerset seems to be actually the weakest (or definitely one of the weakest) of the various controller/dominator sets

???? What?

• Dark is one of the strongest control sets in the game, it features Earth's version of an AoE hold which is much longer-lasting than most AoE click TAoE holds. 
• Dark has basically Fire Control's Flashfire except as a PBAoE in Heart of Darkness (which yea I can agree does hinder it, but Dark is by no means stunted in controlling potential because of it). With high recharge this disorient can be made permanent.

• On 7/14/2020 at 7:19 PM, 1gecko said:

  AND it does the least damage

  Because every single power has -to hit on it (making the caster safer) it also allows for the Cloud Senses proc which is one the least resisted procs in the game. This set is not weak in terms of damage at all.

• On 7/14/2020 at 7:19 PM, 1gecko said:

  It is also the hardest when it comes to choosing where to slot your AT IO's as putting them in your few damage dealers reduces your already low damage and most of the others receive minimal benefit OR are not something you use very much.

  Dominator and Controller ATOs are novelties. They are really more used for their bonuses (specifically the ranged defense and recharge) than anything else. Dark also has the Haunts and the Wolf, and all of its powers accept the clouded senses proc at the bare minimum, therefore I really don't agree it is one of the least damaging control sets by any means.

• On 7/14/2020 at 7:19 PM, 1gecko said:

  Change 'Heart of Darkness' - as it is, only occasionally does it have much effect even well slotted (which kinda makes it not worth running up there among the enemy to use).  Add a 'contageous' Confuse effect to it so that those foes not disoriented are Confused and attack other enemies - that may 'catch' their confusion for the duration.  Since foes that solely defeat each other yield no exp, this wouldn't make this overwhelming or too powerful - plus it would just seem to 'fit' better in the concept of a Dark controller/dominator.

  But the power is one of the strongest controls in Dark Control's arsenal. I don't understand where you thought a permanent aoe disorient combined with an aoe immob to produce the same effect as a permanent hold is a lackluster control by any stretch of the imagination.  

• On 7/14/2020 at 7:19 PM, 1gecko said:

  1) Change 'Possess' power to a Toggle making it a Toggle might make one a semi-permanent pet (until you zone/lose toggle to a hold/stun), but it also means you ONLY have 1.

  This suggestion I vehemently oppose. Absolutely not. I love the power, it is honestly the entire reason I chose Dark Control over other powersets on my Dominator for specific tasks such as TPN, it is an excellent early game tool. Your suggestion will also have horrific affects on the Contagious Confusion proc, you are basically asking for a nerf that no one asked for.

 

As harsh as these points may sound, I am not seeking to harm or demean you, but I think you need to learn more about game mechanics and the inner workings of this set. 

 

Edited July 16, 2020 by Zeraphia

[Galaxy Brain]

The only thing I will say, is that while possess is active itd be nice if it suppressed ToHit debuffs. It's kind of lame that you possess a guy to fight for you but because of your actions he cant even swing at your enemies effectively!

[Monos King]

I was just thinking I'd like to see Possess victims get some kind of buff. Of course, this could only be allowed when the confuse succeeds, and don't know if that can get be made into a check anyhow.

[Greycat]

 

On 7/15/2020 at 9:22 PM, Zeraphia said:

???? What?

Huh. A post where I pretty much 100% agree with Zeraphia. This is a new feeling! 🙂

 

Especially about the confuse. That would be a serious nerf.

[Wavicle]

On 7/14/2020 at 4:19 PM, 1gecko said:

As weird as it my sound, the Dark powerset seems to be actually the weakest (or definitely one of the weakest) of the various controller/dominator sets

lol, no.  Dark is one of the very best sets for Controllers and Dominators.

[0th Power]

19 hours ago, Monos King said:

I was just thinking I'd like to see Possess victims get some kind of buff. Of course, this could only be allowed when the confuse succeeds, and don't know if that can get be made into a check anyhow.

Maybe paragon protector mog and nemesis vengeance?

[1gecko]

Fair points - though I still go with my stance on it having a huge set of hinderances.  And no, I wasn't taking your critiques personally - after all, it is just my opinion, not some huge issue or whatever (plus, while a bit harsh, you were not rude or insulting), but thank you for being polite. I appreciate it.

 

yes, the debuffs are nice - though if you look up in the power details, the actual AMOUNT of debuff is extremely small and most don't stack - from what I can see and my understanding; more of a 'nice to have' rather than a selling point.

 

but experience, inf and many other rewards (except when soloing) is based on the *damage* you inflict, not the control you exert - and while the power damage descriptions give the set 2 Moderate damage powers and 2 Minor damage powers (like half the rest of the sets - the other half have more, some even High damage), the damage itself is lower in those ranges plus the powers that HAVE the damage are the ones you definitely must slot for effect, not damage.

 

On 7/15/2020 at 9:22 PM, Zeraphia said:

But the power is one of the strongest controls in Dark Control's arsenal. I don't understand where you thought a permanent aoe disorient combined with an aoe immob to produce the same effect as a permanent hold is a lackluster control by any stretch of the imagination.  

a) Both the power description AND the wiki (https://hcwiki.cityofheroes.dev/wiki/Darkness_Control) show it as a Disorient, not a Hold - and I admit I have not slotted it heavily since it had so little effect. I will have to try slotting it for hold, but I don't remember that being an option.  I suspect you are confusing it with Shadow Field, which IS an AoE Hold and is awesome.

b) it is also one of your 'damage' powers - one which does 1 pt of damage per every *other* time 'pulse' to minions and usually none to Lts and above.  When you have a power that does damage LESS than your unslotted Brawl - it is not really a 'damage' power, but it counts as one of the sets damage powers.

 

I know in soloing (where you can take the time to test and make notes, since going that slow in a group is... not really appreciated 😉 ), my dominator and my controller with Darkness Control have the LONGEST combats and more close calls than my other controllers/dominators.

 

And yes, in many ways I like the current Possess power - except that:

a) your confused/temp pet is debuffed, and unless attacking a lower power mob (LT/Boss attacking a Minion) cannot hit or do much damage. Still good to keep it from hitting you though 🙂 

b) it is also fully affected by your other offensive powers, which further lowers it's combat abilities.

c) for some reason (and very frustratingly), pets (and other players) seem to focus on the Possessed mob and kill it FIRST - negating the power's benefits.

 - which is why I was pulling for it changing the mob to a 'pet' rather than just being 'confused' - plus then the damage it does manage to inflict counts towards your overall damage. Of course, if you change it to a pet, you can't re-Possess it before it switches back and attacks you (probably with whatever buffs it has picked up from the party).  A Toggle seemed to be the right compromise.

[Puma]

I think Zera meant that since dark control has an AoE immob, having an AoE stun too basically gives it a second AoE hold (you stun them then immob them).