Switch "Echo" zones to free for all zones

[srmalloy]

4 hours ago, Greycat said:

As far as BAB... he's a very convenient trainer, since you come out from there if you run Officer Fields' arc, and he's right near Thiery.

Sondra Castel's arc also pops you out right next to Thiery, and about 80% of the time the XP award for finishing her arc pushes you across a level break, so having BAB right there is quite convenient. I'd like to see him put back into Echo:Galaxy City, though, along with the other fixed NPCs; if it's supposed to be an echo of the past, it should resemble it as it was more closely.

[Darmian]

17 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

Sondra Castel's arc also pops you out right next to Thiery, and about 80% of the time the XP award for finishing her arc pushes you across a level break, so having BAB right there is quite convenient. I'd like to see him put back into Echo:Galaxy City, though, along with the other fixed NPCs; if it's supposed to be an echo of the past, it should resemble it as it was more closely.

Well if Echo Atlas can have a Ms Liberty (who can still train you because I've tested that) then there could easily be a copy of BAB in Echo Galaxy City.

[Greycat]

4 hours ago, Darmian said:

Well if Echo Atlas can have a Ms Liberty (who can still train you because I've tested that) then there could easily be a copy of BAB in Echo Galaxy City.

Which is a separate bit all together, but yeah, I'd love to see him back in Galaxy (Echo: Babs)

[srmalloy]

3 hours ago, Keovar said:

But hey, if you like PvP, why not ask for a true PvP server?  Every alignment could access every zone and everything beyond Atlas and Mercy is Warburg-like.

And have donations to cover operating costs be pulled out separately for the PvP-only server so that when if it fails to get enough support to cover the cost of running it, we can shut it down and we'll have hard numbers to wave in people's faces the next time the idea comes up.

 

[Glacier Peak]

4 hours ago, Keovar said:

There you go.  
 

As long as it’s opt-in only, then I guess it’s merely annoying to have to put those pestering for PvP on ignore, but I definitely don’t want to have it just like Warburg, or even to be opted-in by default, requiring us to enter a command to turn it off.  
 

But hey, if you like PvP, why not ask for a true PvP server?  Every alignment could access every zone and everything beyond Atlas and Mercy is Warburg-like.  Have the server clearly marked with a warning and, if Indomitable is converted into this PvP hell, allow for extra move tokens for a couple months to let those who wish to leave, do so. Also, don’t allow transfers coming into the server so the inevitable “powerlevel in safety, then move” trick won’t work.  

Agree to disagree.

[Glacier Peak]

1 minute ago, Keovar said:

Easy for you to say, as the aggressor wanting to force your play preference on others.  

My original post clearly describes the intent of this suggestion to increase player activity in these zones. The platform I suggested to do so was via a well established game mechanic that has existed for many years. Many posters have provided their opinions, none of them I can say are wrong or right. This is the nature of a suggestion. Thank you for the discussion.

[Bionic_Flea]

8 hours ago, Keovar said:

But hey, if you like PvP, why not ask for a true PvP server?  Every alignment could access every zone and everything beyond Atlas and Mercy is Warburg-like.  Have the server clearly marked with a warning and, if Indomitable is converted into this PvP hell, allow for extra move tokens for a couple months to let those who wish to leave, do so.

I'd have no problem adding a PvP-everywhere server.  I'd also have no problems contributing to it, even if I used it rarely or at all.  But I don't think it should be transfer free.  I like the fact that transfers are generally available.

[srmalloy]

18 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

But I don't think it should be transfer free.  I like the fact that transfers are generally available.

The point of eliminating transfers, as I read it, was to prevent people from leveling and building out their PvP combat monster with the population resources of a PvE server, then transfer the character to the PvP server once it's fully twinked out. Admittedly, with the ability to funnel resources across servers, the limitations are going to be play-based -- doing all the core TFs for the Task Force Commander accolade, for example. If you have to get all the things that require you to play the character with the population resources of a PvP-only server, you're going to have to work harder at it.

[Greycat]

17 minutes ago, srmalloy said:

The point of eliminating transfers, as I read it, was to prevent people from leveling and building out their PvP combat monster with the population resources of a PvE server, then transfer the character to the PvP server once it's fully twinked out.

Who cares if someone transfers or not? I know we have some serious PVP hate in this thread, but seriously... who cares? Hell, if the people who are so upset about PVP and PVPers even breathing thought about it, they should be *happy* to let people move freely to a PVP server, whether they're "twinked out" or not.

 

Not that such a server is going to exist on HC anyway.

 

[Bionic_Flea]

47 minutes ago, Greycat said:

seriously... who cares?

This.  ^^^^

 

Even if you blocked transfers it's just a speed bump.  Set up a fire farmer in AE (which you can transfer and leave there), PL second account and friends to 50 in a few hours.  Having transfers free both ways lets people try out a PvP server without having to commit to it forever.  It also lets PvP folks transfer back to other servers to help out a friend on a TF or what not.  The only reason not to allow transfers back is as a punishment to PvPers.  "Bad player! Now go to your server and think about what you've done and don't come back out!"

[Greycat]

20 minutes ago, Bionic_Flea said:

The only reason not to allow transfers back is as a punishment to PvPers.  "Bad player! Now go to your server and think about what you've done and don't come back out!"

See also "you don't play a way I like."

[Bionic_Flea]

I understood what you are saying.  I just disagree. 

[Darmian]

As I said above I don't choose to PVP (have done but it's not my thing, each their own and all that) but I'm also 100 per cent against there being more PVP zones.  Less PVP zones?  I'm torn. I don't want those that love PVP to lose their zones but this isn't Live and this is a volunteer community/economy, so I'd be for the "doubling" of the three sub 40 PVP zones as mentioned above so as to utilise them further with ongoing story and so on. It's been a LOOONG time since I coded anything but I still reckon doubling the zone would be easier than coding for every single player to have to remember to flag themselves going in or out of the zone. And doubling somewhere like Bloody Bay with it's already teeming mobs and so on is likely easier than filling out Kallisti Wharf.  (<--speculation obviously)

 

And the last zone, the only one any really uses, RV?  I'd add more PVP stuff to it.  Anything you could do in something like laser tag?  Throw it in there. Getting chased by enemies, run through the minefield, if you dare!  Who knows?  We're all pretty inventive here. Me?  I'm all about the narrative.  Yes yes yes, sure everyone is waiting to see if the guys eventually throw Battalion at us (frankly I could happily live without it and let them come up with something different and surprise us rather than being shackled to what was due on Live but YMMV) but in the meantime we need all the rest of the narrative to move on a bit.

 

Now I'm the one who has veered.  Apologies. 

 

PS, I shot my first Infected in the RV tram station yesterday since Live!  I was hopping in to grab the badges (not on Indom so perfectly safe) and there he was.  I almost looked around for a Stalker!

Edited August 24, 2020 by Darmian

[Darmian]

On 8/12/2020 at 8:52 PM, Greycat said:

Realistically, the suggestion to change these zones won't happen, at least on homecoming. There's no desire for it, and badge-hunters have a second, fairly large and vocal community (RP - enough to *also* have its own "unofficial" server, after all, and able to be assumed large given live-Virtue typically being one of the highest pop, highest activity servers) who would rip the faces off anyone wanting to do this to crash RP events. 🙂

I'm going to agree and disagree with you on the "desire" bit.  Bear with me :).  There probably isn't an imminent desire for these zones to be changed but (as I've said above I like your version regarding doubling the zones) there definitely IS a desire for more something, and converting existing material into, well, whatever, surely must be far more doable than building from scratch.  So if changing/doubling these zones aided the game then personally I'd see that as a win/way forward, with the usual caveat that you ain't going to please everyone.

Edited August 24, 2020 by Darmian

[Greycat]

3 hours ago, Keovar said:

You apparently care a lot.  The reason I suggested it could be no-transfer was because I expect 'legit' PvPers would want it that way.  Newb-gankers are of course more interested in victims than a decent fight, so they'd be the ones to powerlevel and get their accolades in place before transferring in. 
As to transferring out, I only said that there should be extra emigration tokens for anyone wanting to leave, if Indomitable were changed rather than an entirely new server created.  

I only "care" enough to point out you're making bad assumptions while you're trying to demonize people.

 

I did start to type up more, to explain why these assumptions are bad, but realized it would be an utter waste of time, especially on something that wouldn't happen anyway.

[Darmian]

20 minutes ago, Keovar said:

I assume you mean Contaminated?  They're the Outbreak tutorial mob.  
Does invisibility work vs. players?  I've used it for PvP zone badge collection, though I needn't have bothered, as the zones were dead.  Out in the world, invisibility is just high transparency, and the floating name is still there.  
  
Loading extra copies of the zones could work, as long as they're marked, but I wonder how that would affect base teleporters.  I've never seen a "zone 2" selection besides once when the GMs spawned Paladin in the first KR, and I was trying to enter by monorail at the time.  
I don't mind others PvPing as long as I don't have to deal with them.  If they pester about it, I'll have to start using the ignore system, but that's okay.  
I do PvP daily on MtG Arena, which has no PvE content (technically there's a bot, but its difficulty is set to 'laughably incompetent').  One to two hours of that a day is more than enough competitive cartoon violence.    

Base teleporters?  There are no TP points into current PVP zones and it won't affect the macro we use at all, so that's not an issue.  Invis vs players?  You'd have to ask a PVPer! I remember the Stalker Hide ability being very efficient though.

[krj12]

No to making them pvp zones.  Yes, to restoring Galaxy City as it was originally - it's been long enough story-wise to say that it has been rebuilt.

[Glacier Peak]

4 hours ago, Darmian said:

As I said above I don't choose to PVP (have done but it's not my thing, each their own and all that) but I'm also 100 per cent against there being more PVP zones.  Less PVP zones?  I'm torn. I don't want those that love PVP to lose their zones but this isn't Live and this is a volunteer community/economy, so I'd be for the "doubling" of the three sub 40 PVP zones as mentioned above so as to utilise them further with ongoing story and so on. It's been a LOOONG time since I coded anything but I still reckon doubling the zone would be easier than coding for every single player to have to remember to flag themselves going in or out of the zone. And doubling somewhere like Bloody Bay with it's already teeming mobs and so on is likely easier than filling out Kallisti Wharf.  (<--speculation obviously)

 

And the last zone, the only one any really uses, RV?  I'd add more PVP stuff to it.  Anything you could do in something like laser tag?  Throw it in there. Getting chased by enemies, run through the minefield, if you dare!  Who knows?  We're all pretty inventive here. Me?  I'm all about the narrative.  Yes yes yes, sure everyone is waiting to see if the guys eventually throw Battalion at us (frankly I could happily live without it and let them come up with something different and surprise us rather than being shackled to what was due on Live but YMMV) but in the meantime we need all the rest of the narrative to move on a bit.

 

Now I'm the one who has veered.  Apologies. 

 

PS, I shot my first Infected in the RV tram station yesterday since Live!  I was hopping in to grab the badges (not on Indom so perfectly safe) and there he was.  I almost looked around for a Stalker!

The flagging of a player for enemy, friendly, or otherwise free for all status is as simple as clicking a button in the dev console or typing the command out manually. This can be demonstrated if you have access to the console commands via a private server.

 

I appreciate the discussion.

[Darmian]

40 minutes ago, Glacier Peak said:

The flagging of a player for enemy, friendly, or otherwise free for all status is as simple as clicking a button in the dev console or typing the command out manually. This can be demonstrated if you have access to the console commands via a private server.

 

I appreciate the discussion.

Is it?  Fair enough.  I considered making a "me only" server but have yet to bother doing so. But again my prejudices show, I simply don't want to have to wander by PVPers murdering each other to do my PVE mish, so I'm still on the side of doubling the location.

 

What do you think of adding more event/quest/action to RV though, as per my other suggestion? Personally I find PVP dull.  That's not stigmatizing people who love it, that's me. 

 

And it just occured to me, and if this is already being done then ignore me, are base raids still possible?  Would designated Red v Blue bases, where you temporarily join a side for the event and fight your way through a designed base be a thing?  As I said, if it's already a thing, cool.  Just spitballing here.  More interesting PVP content is possible maybe than just RV alone.  

 

 

[Darmian]

2 hours ago, krj12 said:

No to making them pvp zones.  Yes, to restoring Galaxy City as it was originally - it's been long enough story-wise to say that it has been rebuilt.

The thing about restoring Galaxy City to "now" is that it'll still look like it was then.  It won't have the sheen of Atlas, which it should do if it actually HAD been rebuilt -- and plenty of people won't mind that just to get it back --and I think that's a little issue that needs to be dealt with.  It's not entirely destroyed.  The area around Orion Beltway is kind of intact, kind of, so if it had the older look and then a revamp moved further out that would make sense.

Edited August 25, 2020 by Darmian

[Greycat]

35 minutes ago, Darmian said:

And it just occured to me, and if this is already being done then ignore me, are base raids still possible?

Nope. Haven't been for a long time. Especially now, it'd be too easy to make an 'unwinnable' base to raid.

[Darmian]

37 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Nope. Haven't been for a long time. Especially now, it'd be too easy to make an 'unwinnable' base to raid.

Oh well.  It was just a thought to add some flavour to PVP.  

[Oginth]

52 minutes ago, Greycat said:

Nope. Haven't been for a long time. Especially now, it'd be too easy to make an 'unwinnable' base to raid.

Was it scrapped before the shutdown? Or is it a bug? Just curious...

[Greycat]

8 minutes ago, Oginth said:

Was it scrapped before the shutdown? Or is it a bug? Just curious...

Well before shutdown.

[macskull]

17 hours ago, srmalloy said:

The point of eliminating transfers, as I read it, was to prevent people from leveling and building out their PvP combat monster with the population resources of a PvE server, then transfer the character to the PvP server once it's fully twinked out. Admittedly, with the ability to funnel resources across servers, the limitations are going to be play-based -- doing all the core TFs for the Task Force Commander accolade, for example. If you have to get all the things that require you to play the character with the population resources of a PvP-only server, you're going to have to work harder at it.

I mean, ideally on a PvP-only server you could get XP, accolades, and enhancements the same way you do on the test server so none of this really matters.