Difference in feel: Super Strength or Stone Melee / Bio Armor

[ninja surprise]

Anyone done both? Any more synergy going one way or the other?

 

Both SS and SM start with:

3 single-target attacks with Stone having about 30% higher base damage but SS attacks recharge a few seconds quicker each

4: Stone gets Build UP, SS gets Hand Clap. 

5: Fault vs Knockout Blow: Fault and Hand Clap are nearly identical but Fault recharges in 20s vs 30s for Hand Clap. Knockout Blow comparison to Seismic Smash on #7.

6: Taunt vs Taunt

7: Seismic Smash vs Rage:  SM gets its version of Knockout Blow, with identical base damage, but SS recharges 5 seconds quicker than KB

8: Hurl Boulder vs Hurl, identical stats

9: Tremor vs Foot Stomp: 41 dam on 14 sec recharge, FS 59 dam on 20 sec recharge.

 

Overall it feels like Stone's big thumpers recharge quicker but with the amount of +recharge you'd want to wind up with the end difference is +- 2 or 3 seconds, like a Tremor every 6 secs or a Foot Stomp every 8 or so.

The Stuns have a bigger spread, with Fault every 8s and Hand Clap every 12s. Have to put a -KB in Hand Clap to prevent scatter though.

 

It *seems* like Super Strength is louder than Stone Melee. Stone's sfx are deeper booms & rumbles, vs SS seems to be loud smashing noises.

 

If you've played both which do you prefer and why? or both are good, depends on the day?

 

[kiramon]

SS.

[Gobbledigook]

I suggest trying both a little and go with the one you have fun with more. SS is good but not everyone can stand the rage crash.

 

 

[Not_Nimrod]

SS was always my favorite brute primary on live and it carried over to Homecoming (I have three SS brutes and a WP/SS tank, all Level 50)... but about 6 months ago, I created a Stone/Invuln brute and he has become my main smasher-upper when I want to play a melee powerhouse.  I've spent a lot of time weighing the pros and cons of the two!

 

The following is just my opinion... man.  Your mileage may vary.

 

Note: I'm comparing SS/Invuln and SM/Invuln so I can't speak to synergy with Bio, but it seems the real question is for the primaries.

 

Rage vs Build-Up:

 

Rage crash sucks.  Hard.  I can't tolerate it anymore.  Even without damage bottoming out, the penalty to defense can really ruin your day if you're tanking Bobcat and Neuron or somesuch and you can't find your mouse pointer in all of the flash/bam/pow to click every inspiration in your tray to avoid a dirtnap.  There's absolutely no penalty for defense or recovery with SM, and the attacks never stop.  Build-up recharges every 25ish seconds for me, and coupled with Seismic Smash, it's pretty outstanding.  I feel like I can get through my attack chain (Seismic Smash, Heavy Mallet, Stone Mallet, Stone Fist) twice with each round of Build-Up.

 

Footstomp vs Tremor:

 

Footstomp is the greatest PBAoE in the game, IMO.  Just one or two of those and it will clear out every minion and sometimes the LT's within an arm's reach.  Tremor, by comparison, is completely outclassed.  It's just weak.  I really miss Footstomp when I'm solo'ing on my Stone Melee brute.  One or two Footstomps really thins out a mob.  Tremor just doesn't get much done.  (Note: Before my disgust with Tremor led to my removing slots from the power, I slotted both the same.  Even so, Footstomp always seems to do 2.5x the damage.)  

 

Handclap vs Fault:   

 

These are both total throw-away powers, IMO.  The more time they spend stunned, the less time they're wailing on you, the less Fury you're building/maintaining.  But with KB to KD IOs, they're admittedly fun.  (But even without KD... why scatter?  Gimme that Fury!  My preference.)

 

Wrecking Faces:

 

Stone Melee's attack chain seems a lot faster, though.  I haven't timed it or crunched numbers, but the animations are very fluid and happen quickly.  My Stone Melee brute destroys bosses, EB's, AV's, pylons, etc faster than my SS brutes ever did.  There's no loss of momentum (Rage), Build-Up is up every 25ish seconds, and I feel like I can complete a chain of 4 or 5 single-target attacks in the same time that it takes to Punch, KO Blow.  

 

Cool Factor:

 

Super Strength is just classic, comic-book cool.  Even if they're a little slow, the animations are fun and it sounds cool, too.

 

My Preference:

They're both going to get the job done.  Ultimately, I prefer Stone Melee but mostly because Rage started to seriously impact my enjoyment for playing melee sluggers.  The AoEs for Stone Melee are largely ineffective, IMO, but it shines with single-target damage and speed of attacks.  If Rage crash doesn't bother you and Footstomp rocks your world, however, go with SS. 

 

Edited August 19, 2020 by Not_Nimrod

[Bill Z Bubba]

I don't even care about the numbers. It's Stone for me for no other reason but that it flows better and crunches harder.

[nihilii]

Stone is incredible in feel. SS eclipses it in performance by a wide margin, and SS has some satisfying attacks in Foot Stomp and KO Blow too. But Stone is all smash, all the time. Stone GFX are somewhat intrusive. SS is easier to make work for any concept.

[HelenCarnate]

Really to compare you have to look at the whole picture.  Start with the powers that are similar.

 

Stone Fist vs Punch   Same recharge, damage and endurance.  Stone has faster cast time.  Stone wins by 0.396 seconds.

Stone Mallet vs Haymaker  Same recharge, damage and endurance.  SS has faster cast time.  SS wins but only by 0.132 seconds

KO Blow vs Seismic Smash  Stone recharges faster and has shorter cast time and has mag 4 hold vs mag 3.  Stone is the huge winner.

They have the same ranged attack so that power is a tie.  At this point stone is clearly better.

 

Stone pulls ahead even more when you consider at this point, they both have 1 melee attack left.  Jab vs Heavy Mallet.  Brutes take jab for 2 reasons.  As something to use as an attack while they are leveling and as a set mule. For an actual attack it is useless. Boxing is even better than Jab.

 

For mitigation, they have Fault vs Hand Clap.  No one wants the clap.  KB instead of KD is terrible for melee and it takes 10 seconds longer to recharge.  Fault can also be cast at range (20' but still range) so you can knock down all those mobs surrounding that poor blaster that pulled the extra group by accident.  (if you care about those things).  So far in every way except one power taking slightly longer to cast, stone is way better.

 

Now we look at the things that are different and that is where things get difficult. 

Rage Vs BU.  Rage is on all the time so all those powers that seemed to be the same now do more damage.  But of course there is a down side.  The crash was fixed/broken so you always get hit with the defense debuff.  This can get some builds killed if they rely on defense to stay alive.  They won't be in huge danger every time a crash hits but it has caused more than a few people to eat floor when the crash hit at a really bad time.  BU on the other hand means no crash but only that extra damage in spurts.  For some the extra damage adds enough for them to overlook the crashes and they double stack rage and love it.  Others stay away like it was a recently arrived exchange student having a coughing fit. 

 

Lastly we have the AoE.  On stone it is crap.  Up every 14 seconds, like most other AoE attacks but has the same or lower damage than all the other 14ish second AoE attacks.  It also has the longest animation time of all of them as well.   The only good part about it is the large radius.  In situations where you are surrounded, the long cast time and low damage are offset by the number of targets you can hit but if you only have a few mobs to kill, many times you are better off smashing them with your single target powers.  Then we move to SS which has Footstomp.  This is the AoE every set wishes it had.  It does take longer to recharge but the damage is decent, and it casts fairly quickly (for a PBAoE attack anyway).  If you manage to go nuts with recharge and are daring enough to double stack rage you can stomp on a huge area every 6-7 seconds for close to 400 damage.  This tips the scales back to SS.  How far is up to each person and depends on how much weight they give to each power.

Edited August 22, 2020 by HelenCarnate

[Haijinx]

The sad thing about Rage is its not as good on Brute as Tankers due to the lower scale and Fury eclipsing it. 

 

Seems weird tbh since "Rage" is such an Iconic Brutish thing.  

 

 

[Bill Z Bubba]

On 8/21/2020 at 7:14 PM, Haijinx said:

The sad thing about Rage is its not as good on Brute as Tankers due to the lower scale and Fury eclipsing it. 

 

Seems weird tbh since "Rage" is such an Iconic Brutish thing.  

 

 

While true it must also be noted that Fury+Rage on a brute is better than just Rage on a tank.

[Galaxy Brain]

Side note: it'd be cool if Build Up / Rage on Brutes specifically actually gave you like, a Fury boost / increased max fury for a time / etc, to mesh better with their inherent.

[Haijinx]

1 minute ago, Galaxy Brain said:

Side note: it'd be cool if Build Up / Rage on Brutes specifically actually gave you like, a Fury boost / increased max fury for a time / etc, to mesh better with their inherent.

Sounds like a can of worms not worth opening.

 

There are a lot of other Primaries out there after all that don't get Rage.