Now that I've found the ultimate team player... what's the opposite?

[VV]

On 9/10/2020 at 7:37 PM, 5099y_74c05 said:

Reading the topic title again I think Ill/Storm is what you are looking for where /Storm is almost purely Debuff and Control.

I agree with the Ill/Storm idea, but realize that /Storm is almost purely damage, with nice debuff and bonus control. Do not add any KB>KD to any of your attacks. Let the KB work for you as mitigation. Slot everything for damage and you should pretty much sail through most content. But, yeah, don't team with it because your teammates will hate you.

[Aeroprism]

Topic necro, just because.

 

My controller has been leveling slowly but surely (too many alts, I'm sure no one else has this issue).  I made him Ill/Traps but I will probably try Ill/Dark in the future because to be fair, Illusion control is just bananas.

 

I wanted to know: what trap powers are considered skippable?  Because from where I'm looking, I think they're ALL good.

 

Also: does Assault boost PA/Pet damage?

 

Thanks guys!

Edited March 6, 2021 by Aeroprism

[Carnifax]

7 minutes ago, Aeroprism said:

Topic necro, just because.

 

My controller has been leveling slowly but surely (too many alts, I'm sure no one else has this issue).  I made him Ill/Traps but I will probably try Ill/Dark in the future because to be fair, Illusion control is just bananas.

 

I wanted to know: what trap powers are considered skippable?  Because from where I'm looking, I think they're ALL good.

 

Also: does Assault boost PA/Pet damage?

 

Thanks guys!

Time bomb is poop. Avoid. Caltrops is a "maybe". Seekers don't do a huge amount. Personally I'd pick one or the other.

 

Assault will boost Phantasm but not PAs. Weirdly PAs can boost themselves with the Chance for Buildup purple pet recipe.

[Aeroprism]

1 hour ago, Carnifax said:

Time bomb is poop. Avoid. Caltrops is a "maybe". Seekers don't do a huge amount. Personally I'd pick one or the other.

 

Assault will boost Phantasm but not PAs. Weirdly PAs can boost themselves with the Chance for Buildup purple pet recipe.

That's sad to hear.  Time bomb looks so awesome on paper.  Though I guess 15 seconds of waiting can be a very long time in a game where everything moves really fast.

[theDarkeOne]

9 hours ago, Aeroprism said:

Topic necro, just because.

 

My controller has been leveling slowly but surely (too many alts, I'm sure no one else has this issue).  I made him Ill/Traps but I will probably try Ill/Dark in the future because to be fair, Illusion control is just bananas.

 

I wanted to know: what trap powers are considered skippable?  Because from where I'm looking, I think they're ALL good.

 

Also: does Assault boost PA/Pet damage?

 

Thanks guys!

This is my ridiculous Ill/Dark/Stone. . . Not saying he regularly crushes +4/8 but +4/5 or 6 is a cake walk . .. Oh was that an AV!??!? I didn't even notice. . .

 

This Hero build was built using Mids Reborn 3.0.4.7
https://github.com/Reborn-Team/MidsReborn

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Level 50 Magic Controller
Primary Power Set: Illusion Control
Secondary Power Set: Darkness Affinity
Power Pool: Speed
Power Pool: Leaping
Power Pool: Fighting
Power Pool: Leadership
Ancillary Pool: Stone Mastery

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Blind -- UnbCns-Hold/Rchg(A), UnbCns-EndRdx/Hold(3), UnbCns-Acc/Hold/Rchg(3), UnbCns-Acc/Rchg(5), UnbCns-Hold(5)
Level 1: Twilight Grasp -- CldSns-%Dam(A), CldSns-Acc/EndRdx/Rchg(7), CldSns-ToHitDeb/EndRdx/Rchg(7), CldSns-Acc/ToHitDeb(9), ThfofEss-+End%(9)
Level 2: Tar Patch -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 4: Spectral Wounds -- Apc-Dam%(A), Apc-Dmg/EndRdx(15), Apc-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(15), Apc-Acc/Rchg(17), Apc-Dmg/Rchg(17)
Level 6: Hasten -- RechRdx-I(A), RechRdx-I(19)
Level 8: Combat Jumping -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A)
Level 10: Howling Twilight -- AbsAmz-ToHitDeb%(A), AbsAmz-EndRdx/Stun(19), AbsAmz-Stun(21), AbsAmz-Acc/Stun/Rchg(21), AbsAmz-Acc/Rchg(23)
Level 12: Group Invisibility -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(23), RedFrt-EndRdx(25), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(25), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(27), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(27)
Level 14: Kick -- Empty(A)
Level 16: Shadow Fall -- Rct-ResDam%(A), Rct-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(29), Rct-Def/Rchg(29), Rct-EndRdx/Rchg(31), Rct-Def/EndRdx(31), Rct-Def(31)
Level 18: Phantom Army -- CaltoArm-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(A), OvrFrc-Acc/Dmg/End/Rech(33), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SlbAll-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(33), SlbAll-Build%(34), RechRdx-I(37)
Level 20: Fade -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), RedFrt-Def(34), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx(34), RedFrt-EndRdx(36), RedFrt-Def/Rchg(36), RedFrt-Def/EndRdx/Rchg(36)
Level 22: Tough -- GldArm-3defTpProc(A), GldArm-End/Res(37)
Level 24: Weave -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), ShlWal-ResDam/Re TP(37), ShlWal-Def(39), ShlWal-Def/EndRdx(39)
Level 26: Flash -- SprWiloft-Rchg/Dmg%(A), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/EndRdx(43), SprWiloft-Acc/Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear(43), SprWiloft-Conf/Hold/Immob/Sleep/Stun/Fear/Rchg(45), SprWiloft-EndRdx/Rchg(45)
Level 28: Soul Absorption -- PreOptmz-EndMod/End/Rech(A), PreOptmz-EndMod/Acc/Rech(39), RgnTss-Regen+(40), Prv-Absorb%(40)
Level 30: Maneuvers -- LucoftheG-Def/Rchg+(A), LucoftheG-Def/EndRdx(48)
Level 32: Phantasm -- ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg(A), ExpRnf-Dmg/EndRdx(45), ExpRnf-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(50), ExpRnf-EndRdx/Dmg/Rchg(50), OvrFrc-Dam/KB(50)
Level 35: Fissure -- Rgn-Dmg/EndRdx(A), Rgn-Dmg(40), Rgn-Dmg/Rchg(42), Rgn-Acc/Dmg/Rchg(42), Rgn-Acc/Rchg(42), FrcFdb-Rechg%(43)
Level 38: Super Jump -- BlsoftheZ-ResKB(A)
Level 41: Darkest Night -- EndRdx-I(A)
Level 44: Seismic Smash -- SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg(A), SprBlsCol-Acc/Dmg/EndRdx(46), TchofDth-Dam%(46), Hct-Dam%(46), UnbCns-Dam%(48), GldStr-%Dam(48)
Level 47: Tactics -- AdjTrg-ToHit/EndRdx(A)
Level 49: Earth's Embrace -- StdPrt-ResDam/Def+(A)
Level 1: Brawl -- Empty(A)
Level 1: Containment 
Level 1: Sprint -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Rest -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Swift -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Health -- NmnCnv-Regen/Rcvry+(A), Pnc-Heal/+End(11), Mrc-Rcvry+(11)
Level 2: Hurdle -- Empty(A)
Level 2: Stamina -- PrfShf-End%(A), PrfShf-EndMod(13), PrfShf-EndMod/Acc(13)
------------

 

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[Riverdusk]

I skipped triage beacon and time bomb.  Triage always disappoints me with how weak and slow it is. 

 

Seekers are okay.  They aren't as vital to an illusion as they are on a lot of other AT's/powerset combos as a big use of them is as an alpha strike absorber, when we already have phantom army for that.  Although earlier levels before enough recharge,  it can help to have both to alternate between the two.

 

But overall, they give you more tohit debuffing, another chance to set up containment...and probably the best debuff they have, a -20% damage debuff which means a hefty 40% damage debuff when both hit.  Also, another power in which to slot the ATO IO sets, which is what I used it for. I found them more useful than flash at least, which is what I skipped from illusion.

 

 

 

 

[Coyote]

I think Seeker Drones are a good power for many powersets, not so much for Illusion. They go great with primaries that say "you can attack me, but not very effectively", like Dark, Earth, or Ice. Adding more -ToHit and -Damage to attacks that are coming your way, but slowed down due to knockdowns and less accurate due to -ToHit debuffs, is useful. But debuffing attacks going into PA is irrelevant, so you only debuff a portion of the attacks that come at you.

 

That said, it's not too bad. It does lower damage, it has a decent -ToHit (10% with both, slottable to around 15%), so you stack that with Spectral Terror, and add it to the normal Defense from FFG, and reduce the damage that does hit, and it makes you a lot less worried if the spawn is scattered and not controlled, or too many mobs for PA to maintain aggro, etc. It can allow you to play a lot more aggressively, and not wait for PA to recharge since you can open fights with the Drones plus Spectral Terror, etc.

[Aeroprism]

I am very grateful for all that knowledge!

 

One thing is for sure:

15 hours ago, theDarkeOne said:

This is my ridiculous Ill/Dark/Stone. . .

This looks like amazing fun but I won't have the stamina to slowly level a second Ill/* controller so I'm going to roll that and PL it to the early 30s with my farmer to try it.  It looks like a build that's going to be easy to understand; I already have Dark Affinity on a level 30ish MM so I know the drill.  VERY survivable.

 

 

As for our friend Wrong Answer (My Ill/Traps controller): I think that Seeker Drones will be a good leveling tool, until PA comes up often enough to spec Drones out. 

 

I like caltrops, it keeps things semi-in place.  The mortar is a good debuff, not relying on it for damage. The FF generator is just pure, epic love. Havent seen the poison trap yet.  Trip mines looks like the major selling point of the set and i will agree, Time Bomb looks impractical. Unless maybe with someone who can recall foe?  Just a thought.

 

I also tend to agree with @Riverdusk, Triage Beacon is underwhelming, I can't ever really say it ever saved me from any doom. (And at level 19, I face-planted quite a few times.)  I guess it could be kept for a Heal Set it that's pertinent. 

 

Which brings me to my next question: I don't see many Ill/ builds with Controller ATOs slotted in. Are they not good?

 

[Carnifax]

22 minutes ago, Aeroprism said:

Which brings me to my next question: I don't see many Ill/ builds with Controller ATOs slotted in. Are they not good?

Will of the Controller is excellent. Recharge and ranged Def. 

 

The other one not so much. People tend to slot the Font if any of it. 

[Aeroprism]

Muling and proccing 🙂 I'm going to have to learn all this. I`m still partly the sort of player who innocently thinks a power can actually be used 😄

 

Ok so Will of the Controller is clear to me but what is this Energy Font you mention? What does it do?  I don't really have a problem with "notify" powers, Illusion doesn`t sleep a only has one confuse which i don't plan to use.

 

I agree that healing is the least desired form of mitigation.  Damage you don't suffer doesn't have to be healed.

 

Always something new to learn with this game!

[Coyote]

25 minutes ago, Aeroprism said:

Muling and proccing 🙂 I'm going to have to learn all this. I`m still partly the sort of player who innocently thinks a power can actually be used 😄

 

Ok so Will of the Controller is clear to me but what is this Energy Font you mention? What does it do?  I don't really have a problem with "notify" powers, Illusion doesn`t sleep a only has one confuse which i don't plan to use.

 

I agree that healing is the least desired form of mitigation.  Damage you don't suffer doesn't have to be healed.

 

Always something new to learn with this game!

 

Gosh, especially for leveling until the 30s, Deceive is your second or third-best power behing PA and maybe behind Blind (or maybe not). Absolutely take it and learn to use it. It only becomes of low value at high level when you're fighting too large spawns to bother mezzing a single target.

The Energy Font is the IO that has Recharge/Energy Font... the Font is a summoned pet that lasts for 20 seconds, and does AoE damage with a tick aura that has a chance to Stun. Damage is 66 at level 50, so it's almost as good as a damage proc, but it's AoE so it can get AoE damage out of a single-target power. Alternately, when used with an AoE power, only one target has to trigger the proc in order for the Orb to be summoned, so it gets more reliable than a damage proc when you're hitting a lot of targets. On the downside, it's a 20 second DoT, so you generally won't see all of the damage applied. It does have a Stun effect and does draw aggro, though, so it has uses beyond just more damage. I like it in Spectral Terror, Tornado, and Poison Gas Trap (on a /Poison, I don't know if the Traps version can slot the ATO set in its version of Poison Trap or not).

[Aeroprism]

Put that way, I want to include it in my build now! 🙂

[Mopery]

The absolute opposite of a team player would be a petless mastermind, perhaps a Merc/FF with 6-slotted brawl, Whirlwind(always on), every KB power available(especially AoE's), PFF only, Detention Field(spammed)...

 

Yeah.

 

That would be godawful to have to team with.

[Riverdusk]

The confuse also turns from a single target confuse into often hitting several targets once you get to 50 and put the purple contagious confusion proc in it.  

[vibal]

Just want to point out that with investment elec/time is fully capable of soloing at shenanigans levels. I run elec/dark and usually zig where the team zags just to get full mileage out of the hilarity of triple pulling spawns.

 

You've got a semi-reliable aoe confuse that goes bonkers with coercive persuasion procs, the only usable sleep in the game, and jolting chain is bananas once you've got enough recharge to proc slot it. Add in time's buffs/debuffs and everything is there to soft cap s/l and go. to. town. You have to push more buttons than the brute/blaster, but that's the controller life. That toon is fully capable of everything the game wants to throw at it. AV soloing may be a bit dicey with time's iffy -regen I suppose.

[ExeErdna]

Traps to me the big skipables are Triage Beacon and Time Bomb. You can have fun with the Frozen Blast Proc in Caltrops, Seeker Drones maybe a bit sus yet once you have some macros you can honestly start some fights with Seekers since they'll take an Alpha Strike allowing you set up a bit. Depending on your comfort with Trip Mine that's also skipable yet it's solid if you're running a build that uses Fold Space 2-3 mines, the 1-2 layers of caltrops/mortars and the poison trap will ruin most +3 groups. It's slow as all hell solo yet very safe. Also I found that the Energy Font Procs works very well with Seekers.

[Quindorrian]

I am wondering this same question.  I am looking for a controller that has farm potential.  I understand that fire/kin was the OG controller farmer.  Is anything else possible?  How viable is fire/storm?  I have a grav/time controller decked out but it is just a hair too slow to be viable.  No problem w/ +4/8 content, it's just slow.  Look for something just a hair faster.  Not expecting Brute level speed.  Any recommendations?  If fire/storm is viable that would be nice since I have a toon already, but open to suggestions!

 

[VV]

So, on my Ill/Traps that both solos and teams like a monster, the only things I skipped were Spectral Wounds and Time Bomb. I *really* wanted to like Time Bomb because BIG BOOM, and I tried. I slotted it 7 different ways from Sunday and I tried all sorts of different tactics to get it to be useful. Just could not do it. That NINE second cast time just seems like an hour during combat. So, I dumped it.

 

Regarding this, 

On 9/10/2020 at 4:22 PM, Aeroprism said:

Edit: Oh and, so we're clear, I don't expect a controller to be soloable at level 6,

you can totally solo a controller at 6th. Your worst problem is going to be END, but that's true of most any 6th level too.

On 9/11/2020 at 2:29 PM, Hardship said:

Illusion pets really are like playing with an inexperienced PUG!

Yet, still smarter than MM pets!

[Voltak]

9 hours ago, Quindorrian said:

I am wondering this same question.  I am looking for a controller that has farm potential.  I understand that fire/kin was the OG controller farmer.  Is anything else possible?  How viable is fire/storm?  I have a grav/time controller decked out but it is just a hair too slow to be viable.  No problem w/ +4/8 content, it's just slow.  Look for something just a hair faster.  Not expecting Brute level speed.  Any recommendations?  If fire/storm is viable that would be nice since I have a toon already, but open to suggestions!

 

Again, after playing controllers, doms, and everything else heavily , and after being one of the biggest farmers on Freedom server when it was live 

( my brute was arguably the fastest farmer in the game tested by extensive competition) 

If you want to farm, and you want a controller, the best way to go is fire/kin with plant/kin being very close or just as equal depending on what map you are doing . 

Far second is fire/rad   ( I did farm with fire/rad too but it's never near enough a fire/kin). 

But if you really want to speed your farming and you want a controller type, and you want all map types , then , sorry, but the Dominator is where you want to go 

Fire/Kin is truly a king but only in open mops with mobs extensively spread out. 

A Dominator has much greater control than a controller , so he can deal with maps with not so much safety as a controller requires to survive 

That is the only reason Dominators can be so reliable for farming with great speeds, because of domination 

Fire/Kin tops on open maps, but dominators on almost any map can do it very well 


I had farming speed competitions over and over on Freedom

My plant/thorns fully decked out with IOs was far faster than a fire/kin when an assortment of maps were used, but the standard map on P Island to farm with fire/kin was always looking like it was made for fire/kin and it was too good. 

When mission architect came out , the BRUTE emerged as the ONE 

SS/FIRE brutes outclassed any and all other farmers in the game when mission architect came out 


Concerning plant for farming --  

Now, I know confusion diminishes some XP but, BIT BUT... the speed of your kills makes up, MORE THAN MAKES up for that. 

Since you are clearing the maps faster and resetting faster, the fire/kin is getting behind even if he has no xp/kill penalties due to enemies being confused

Nothing damages those minions faster than seeing their own bosses owning those minions , you are just there to provide support and additional damage to ensure the quick end. 

Now plant is a damage monster in it's own right, position your thorns damg angles just right and you will clear the group in no time. 

OMG 

I am so glad I found this forum today . 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Voltak

[Voltak]

7 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

 

 

Overview:

You need three components to farm: AoE damage, survivability, and resilience (ability to recover quickly to sustain the other two). You are optimizing for damage while building enough survivability and resilience to support damage output. Ideally a farm build also doesn't require heavy IO Set investment.

 

AoE Damage:

Primaries that can dish out AoE damage are limited; IMO Fire/ and Plant/ are the most viable, out of the box, minimal investment primaries. /Kin would be hard to beat under this criteria as well. Single-handedly /Kin can put you at the damage cap and has enough survivability and resilience tools to keep you alive, while hooking and jabbing.  These would be your top tier farmers again: no IOs and no PROCs.

 

As far as out of the box damage focused secondaries, excluding /Kin, you also have /Storm, /TA, and /Traps. Other sets can be elevated to suitable levels with the use of PROCs, but now you must balance competing slot commitments: set bonuses vs PROCs. Doable but more challenging.

 

Survivability:

Now when we consider building for DEF on SOs, S/L DEF is the way to go. CJ+Man+Weave+Epic Armor puts you at around 36 to 37% S/L DEF. This is enough to start farming with small purples and red inspirations. Choosing the right secondary can also close the gap to softcap, so you aren't reliant on purples allowing you to switch over to reds (**unless you are a /Kin).

 

____________________________________________
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a long, very long time farmer of the game, I am going to confidently give my insight into this , all from experience and all from speed testing over and over. 

What components you need for farming depends on what you want to farm with.  

Components vary for  a brute vs controller 

Controller needs CONTROL, then dmg, then recharge, and movement. 

A controllers survival is based controlling and dmg 

You don't need to worry much or at all about having defense 

your defense is your control , how fast you move your hands and mouse and clicks , because a controller since he or she has no domination must be clicking fast to get that boss or bosses under control 

That is the defense of a controller 


Damg is universal , a kin has nothing to worry about there

I concretely disagree with the statement about IOs 

The fact is that the better your deck of IOs are , the better you will farm

Recharge is a must for controllers, dominators and brutes and so on 


Dmg pluses, set bonuses and so on... all those great things from IOs they are a must

Hit points--- another standard across (except perhaps for dominators in skilled hands) 

Hit points can save you from those OOOPS moments but again, control and dmg is the game 


All my best farming characters were heavily decked out with IOs 

Those bonuses cannot hurt you, they only benefit you 


For Brutes, is not about control, it's about dmg and survival (thus you see the best farming brutes be fire brutes in maps of fire dmg dealing critters). Fire and SS together make the heaviest and best dmg dealing brutes in the game for farming ...SORRY... the best character by very far in the game for farming , if you measure clearing times and xp accrual 


Blasters , I seen them farm too.   It's all about the surprise element , some control and dmg and movement but they sure put defensive stats in their builds from IO bonuses as well but even before IOs, they were farming too but that was because of the epic power pools available 

I seen Corrupters farm as well 

They also use some control and defense and of course, dmg and movement 

But hands down , the best controllers in the most varied of maps were dominators 

Not anywhere close to SS/Fire brutes but they were awesome 

Edited March 10, 2021 by Voltak

[Coyote]

1 hour ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

More enemy defeats/time = more rewards/time. Ideally, control and debuff powers should only be a mechanism to deliver damage via PROCs and not to mitigate anything. Several "PROC Monster threads" explore and discuss how to do this with the various available Controller primaries and secondaries.

 

To add to this: you can slot Flashfire for Control and, let's say, get 33 seconds out of it. Or you slot it for damage via PROCs, and get only 23 seconds of Stun out of it, but 300 damage... that 300 damage makes you safer than the 10 extra seconds, because you're now one APP AoE away from removing all of the minions off the map. And Bosses aren't Stunned anyhow unless you get an Overpower result, so the extra 10 seconds of Stun on LTs isn't as useful as 300 more AoE damage in a huge radius. And by "useful", I mean in a damage mitigation topic, not even considering that faster kill speed is better. But just defensively, more damage in a large AoE is a GOOD DEFENSE.

[Voltak]

3 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

Thank you. I appreciate you insights and engagement even if we disagree. Please consider that your information is outdated:

This is an example where your information is outdated. Fire/Rad isn't even in the top three Contoller farmers. Nothing /Rad is.

Rad/Fire and Spines/Fire are top tier earners for Broot builds. SS/Fire is a distant third if it is even on that list.

Respectfully disagree. The addition of Epic pools allowed Controllers to build for DEF and approach the softcap on SOs (see the pseudo build I posted). Capping S/L DEF with a small purple strongly favored Fire/Kin since they already live at the AT hard Damage Cap. This is why Fire/Kin was the long hanging fruit. Natively, it brought all three of my farming factors to bare:  AoE Damage, Survivability(mitigation) and Resilience (Recovery and to a lesser degree healing).

 

Only PreIO sets was what you state remotely true; this was the state of old school farming. Controllers had no other form of mitigation except via controls and debuffs. In the modern game this is no longer the case. Efficient farming is optimized around AoE damage, not control. This is true for all ATs, and Controllers are no exception.

 

More enemy defeats/time = more rewards/time. Ideally, control and debuff powers should only be a mechanism to deliver damage via PROCs and not to mitigate anything. Several "PROC Monster threads" explore and discuss how to do this with the various available Controller primaries and secondaries.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You are putting words in my mouth 

Some things you are stating that I said... I never said those things 

Why do some people need to distort what is stated in order to make an argument is beyond me 


Right up until the servers of CoH were closed , live servers ...


Right up until that time I was farming with many different types of characters 

I am not sure what has changed with this new outlet to play the game 

I don't know if they changed anything to damage 

But what you needed as a controller to farm +4 x 8 was good bonuses and accuracy or +to hit , CONTROL and DAMAGE and be very fast and to be careful about your angles so that you covered as many in the target group with a special eye on bosses 

Now, I never said you don't want defense 

I never said defense was bad 

But I did mean that control is what you needed 

Controllers damage is based on containment 

Containment gives controllers a huge buff of damg. 

Control also provides your safety since controlled critters don't fight back 

When your bonuses from IOs have enough and your build is right, you should not be missing all the time , so you should be able to hit +4s. 



On Live servers before they shut down 

Fire/Kin was still the fastest farmer for controllers 

Very far far from fire/rad 

I did say fire/rad was a far second for controllers only , all that was from the time servers were still live
It was NOT ever worth farming on fire/rad 

It was not worth farming seriously on any controller, not even fire/rad

They were heavily outmatched by Brutes and Dominators 

Plant/Thorns dominator would wipe the floor with controllers, even fire/kin -  Confusion was way too good to and the dmg from the combo of plant /thorns was juicy 



In live servers No brute could touch SS/FIRE 

I don't know what the game changed since it was live

But SS damage buff for that prolonged time was too much for anything else to compete , not even spines 

I competed vs spines many times and I was beating them very easily

I don't know what changed , I am not aware of any changes to damage on spines if any damages were done 

But if the damage from Spines was not buffed since the live servers went down , then I am sure SS/Fire would beat spines if played right. 

I am not aware of any Rad/ set for brutes 

That must be something new for brutes 



 

[VV]

2 hours ago, Voltak said:

I am not sure what has changed with this new outlet to play the game 

Then why are you commenting? Lots has changed since sunset. 

 

Also, you two are saying the same thing.

22 hours ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

TLDR; I would rank them like this:

Top tier: Fire/ or Plant/ and /Kin.

And

16 hours ago, Voltak said:

If you want to farm, and you want a controller, the best way to go is fire/kin with plant/kin being very close or just as equal depending on what map you are doing . 

Instead of wasting a lot of space and time confusing the readers with both your ramblings, how about you both post your builds, and anyone interested can head on over to the Test server to see which one is better? Jeez.

[Voltak]

1 hour ago, VV said:

Then why are you commenting? Lots has changed since sunset. 

 

Also, you two are saying the same thing.

And

Instead of wasting a lot of space and time confusing the readers with both your ramblings, how about you both post your builds, and anyone interested can head on over to the Test server to see which one is better? Jeez.

In my comments I made very specific references that it was addressing the game as it was on live server 

Never did I say my comments were about the game as it is now on this game 

I did say that all my information, experience, and tests were done on live, that was clear. 


Again, if the OTHER sets were buffed or if some nerfs occurred , then that's something I addressed already 

I most certainly will test things out as soon as I get that running. 

No need to tell me that 

I don't even know why you being mean to me 

Did I offend YOU ?

[Voltak]

29 minutes ago, 5099y_74c05 said:

 

What specifically did I misconstrue? Your argument is right here in your own words:

 

You claimed Control is the primary attribute necessary for farming and I am telling it is not. A farmer's focus is on sustaining AoE damage WITH JUST ENOUGH survival (mitigation) and resilience (recovery and healing) to maintain that output. If you are busy controlling for mitigation you are using cast time bandwidth for something other than damage. The only exception is if you are PROCed out. In this scenario you are trading control duration for PROC damage which means your controls are mitigating in a diminished capacity.

 

When you look at mitigation of DEF vs Control (as I outlined in my previous thread) there is no scenario Control is superior to DEF, none. Even this is misframing the problem. The real comparison is Control vs. Control and DEF( and Possibly RES). I can tell you a softcapped build doesn't worry about who is attacking and who and how to counter attack. This is the beauty of a DEF build.

 

 

I never said "primary"

TO say it another way, your "defense" can be your control 

Your control can be your defense

In practice, I never did build for def soft cap 

Got containment/control , did the dmg and moved on 

Never worried about getting killed 

They were under control , got attacked and I moved on, as did so many others

That was before IOs, it continued to be so after IOs

Now, don't get me wrong--

I am very much aware of build up for defense as it became a thing when IOs came out and so on 

I never did say that you could never run it that way 

I Did say that control and damage is what you needed and that is assuming if you went the route of systematically following that tactic , control, set containment, dmg and moved on 

I never disqualified a defense build at all 

I hope you understand me 

There's more than one way to skin this 

But since the game started and even after IOs, having the critters under control and then damaging them worked well and quickly 

So it was fine for me to say that's what you need