Bad Mission Design 101.

[Pengy]

I did these arcs to see what the fuss was about - the Protect the Henge finale is clearly broken. Am I the only one who remembers it being challenging? I think the retail developers must have nerfed it at some point because players wanted it to be easier. In the old days, a pause of a few seconds between waves was necessary in order for crowd control or knockback powers to recharge, or to give time to place caltrops or trip mines. It wasn't possible to aggro an entire spawn; they were too intent on their goal, the henges.

 

Now they don't care about the henges at all. When I got bored on this mission, I placed my blaster near their path and watched the next spawn stop and fight, even though I wasn't doing anything. I read a book for 10 minutes, only healing my character when he needed it, and succeeded at the mission.

 

There's no reason other than nerfed AI to make the Red Caps care about a hero who isn't trying to stop them. I think the threat level or whatever it is of the henges should be bumped up to what it used to be, then the mission would be challenging again.

[Andreah]

On 9/26/2020 at 2:22 PM, Luminara said:

 

The Calvin and Hobbes influence just oozes from this.  Absolutely wonderful.  🙂

In the distant future, if Mankind survives, the Twentieth Century will be remembered by its two greatest philosophers. Bill Watterson and Ted Kaczynski. 

[Greycat]

6 hours ago, Pengy said:

I did these arcs to see what the fuss was about - the Protect the Henge finale is clearly broken. Am I the only one who remembers it being challenging?

 

Honestly? Not really. Not any more than "we have IOs available now, not just SOs, and more power picks from not needing to fit in fitness" and the rest of the general gameplay changes would explain.

[Coyotedancer]

Indeed.

 

It was never all that hard. 

It's just boring.

[Zippity]

I actually find this Mission fun and different... It definitely works out better if you do it in a group... This mission has been like it is since it first came out with the zone, back in live... My best recommendation for completing it, especially if soloing it, is to rescue all the hostages one at a time, wait for ambushes as you rescue each hostage... (do not pump up the difficulty of the mission at all, in fact if soloing, I recommend lowering it to -1/0)... Once all three are rescued, conduct the escort of all 3 at one time, following the road to the fence behind the henge... Jump the fence, finish the escort and then return to the road from whence you hopped the fence... If you wait there, the ambushes will almost always come up that road, and you can create a choke point to take them out... If you have a controller to put down a slow field, it works even better... I still highly recommend getting a group together to do it... Yes, it seems annoying that you have to deal with ambushes for such a long period of time... But it's just the one time mission, and I can think of far more annoying missions then that one...

 

Zip

[Grouchybeast]

7 hours ago, Pengy said:

Now they don't care about the henges at all. When I got bored on this mission, I placed my blaster near their path and watched the next spawn stop and fight, even though I wasn't doing anything. I read a book for 10 minutes, only healing my character when he needed it, and succeeded at the mission.

Probably a silly question, but you didn't happen to have a sustain toggle with a big AoE aggro range running, did you?  I only mention because I'm always forgetting to turn off mine and then wondering why every group of mobs I run past is suddenly shooting at me.

 

(I actually kind of like this one, and the one to stop the pumpkins escaping.  I often run characters through Croatoa, because it's a bit of a change of pace.)

[Piecemeal]

I am keenly interested in this topic.

[Pengy]

34 minutes ago, Grouchybeast said:

Probably a silly question, but you didn't happen to have a sustain toggle with a big AoE aggro range running, did you?  I only mention because I'm always forgetting to turn off mine and then wondering why every group of mobs I run past is suddenly shooting at me.

 

(I actually kind of like this one, and the one to stop the pumpkins escaping.  I often run characters through Croatoa, because it's a bit of a change of pace.)

I don't think I have one (Beam Rifle/Devices). But I do remember the mobs ignoring my blasts to attack the ritual, and now they ignore the ritual to attack me.

[Pengy]

Well, I'm sure it's been well over 10 years since I did it last, and I have a poor memory, but I think they used to attack the ritual.

[Greycat]

30 minutes ago, Pengy said:

Well, I'm sure it's been well over 10 years since I did it last, and I have a poor memory, but I think they used to attack the ritual.

If they get past you, yes, they start attacking the henge.

[Luminara]

Let's talk about A New Dimension, A New Team.  It's the first story arc handed out by this guy.

 

The arc begins with a surprising well designed mission.  The spawns are larger than normal, and the critters used for the spawns have powers which can work together to make the mission more challenging.  But, you also start with a bunch of combat NPCs who are capable of handling the spawns without you, so even "weak" characters aren't forced to slog through anything more difficult than normal, unless they choose to.  Additionally, you don't even have to fight, you can just bypass everything, go straight to the end and move on if you wish because the objective is just a few hundred yards away, across the water, and there isn't a single critter between you and it.  This mission gives you a lot of freedom in how you complete it.  That's really smart design.  You can clear it, you can only fight the spawns you want to fight, you can lead your posse around and let them do the fighting for you, you can skip all of it and go straight to the end.  You have options and can play according to your preferences.

 

Unfortunately, that's the highlight of the entire arc.  It's all downhill from there.

 

The second mission is very straightforward, you go to a place to talk to someone.  The first problem with that is, talking doesn't net you a single experience point.  The second problem is that, if you don't know which dialogue option to avoid, you can complete the mission without gaining anything but the standard mission completion reward.  That's... not great.  Having the option to complete missions without fighting, yeah, that's a positive thing, because an MMORPG really should have more than "kill moar stuffs" to engage the player.  But the fact that one of the options leads to mission completion immediately should be emphasized.  Strongly emphasized, because this contact is automatically inserted into your contact list at level 30, just when players are looking for the next big story arc or mission to help them reach the next couple of levels.  And that's the bad design part on this mission.  As interesting as it is to have a non-combat mission, it should always be noted.  The player should be made aware that the mission doesn't involve combat, and has an option which completes the mission and deprives them of the opportunity to engage in combat.

 

The third mission is the one which you have a chance to miss (or decline by sending someone else to "do it", if you know what the dialogue options mean).  It's an average, standard mission.

 

The fourth mission drops the ball again.  The problem isn't with the enemy group, or the task, it's with the map.  You're sent to a warehouse in which every door is closed.  Take twenty steps, open a door, repeat.  You spend as much time opening doors as you do defeating enemies.  That's pointless busy work for the player.  The doors aren't locked, with keys "hidden" on named enemies, like what occurs in some other missions.  The doors don't open in a special way, requiring players to open them in the correct sequence to open the final door (which would be interesting).  Clicking a door isn't a grueling chore, it's not something to throw a temper tantrum over, and that's not the point.  The point is, they don't serve any purpose.  They have no relevance to the story.  They're just a speed bump deliberately place in front of the character.  The person who created this mission didn't place spawns just on the other side of the door, to give players a surprise or increase the potential challenge.  The doors weren't connected to the story in some way.  They don't trigger alarms if they're opened.  They're just there to make the player click on them.  That's bad.  Engage the player, don't bore them with pointless mouse clicks.

 

The next couple of missions are, again, relatively standard.  You've got some combat NPCs again, but they're not particularly sturdy, or devastating, so you're doing the heavy lifting.  This is normal for this game.  Combat NPCs aren't intended to be remarkable, so no bones about that.  What is worth noting, though, is the unannounced AV/EB at the end.  This is one of those quibbles which both Cryptic and Paragon heard so many times that they listened... but apparently, the designer of these two missions didn't get the memo.  There's no warning when you're talking to Marchand.  There's no "you might want to bring a friend" highlight.  That suggests that the designer expected the combat NPCs to still be with the player, and useful, when he/she reached the AV/EB.  The bad design parts here are the lack of info and the failure to appropriately buff the combat NPCs.  If you're going to send the player up against a surprise AV/EB, give them the tools they might need to complete the mission.  If you're not going to give them what they need, give them the appropriate notification so they can prepare.

 

The last mission is the worst violator of good design philosophy, though.  It's not a mission.

 

No, it is not a mission.

 

It's "Click OK to continue" half a dozen times, plus a cutscene.

 

Click OK to continue.  You walk in, click OK to continue several times, watch a cutscene... and that's the whole thing.  That's it.  You just sat through "Click OK to continue" being used as an alternative to the endless Black Queen monologue... PLUS A CUTSCENE.  That's atrocious.  It's reprehensible, and I do know what that word means and intentionally used it.  There's no reason, at all, for this to be in the game.  This is City of *, not Windows 95 Software Installation Simulator.  Every line of dialogue could've been delivered at the beginning of the following story arc, or as a clue in the previous mission, or by sending the player to actually see the characters in different places, or even as a souvenir.  A player should never be sent to a mission door unless there's a mission on the other side.  Making the player click OK to continue several times and admire your positioning of NPCs is not a valid mission.  And "Click OK to continue" just doesn't constitute a mission.

 

Using Click OK to continue to drag an arc out so it reaches some mandatory number of missions is not good design.  Using Click OK to continue to wrap up an arc isn't either, not when there are better and less tedious alternatives.  Do it right, without Click OK to continue, or don't fucking do it at all.

 

Every time I run this arc, I find myself wondering if it was a rookie's first attempt that no-one more experienced even looked at.  It's that poorly done.  The good parts are only mediocre, and the design flaws drag it so far down, I don't think it can be redeemed, or is worth the time attempting to do so.  Set it on fire and walk away.

[Grouchybeast]

We have very different tastes in mission design :-)  I really enjoy Marchand's arc, as well as Croatoa.