Most powerful MM for roleplay purposes

[Yomo Kimyata]

A number of my character stories revolve around a master criminal who they once worked for before they went out on their own.  I think of him as a faction leader and I’d like to create him in game.

 

The problem I’m having is that conceptually he works as a mastermind, specifically thugs, but I’m having a hard time justifying a super-DUPER villain that is a MM.  I want to build something that feels conceptually overpowered, but my experience with MM has been underwhelming.  Any advice?  Thanks in advance!

[kelika2]

MMs like doms are a level 50 only class.  Or late bloomer if thats less offensive.  You need all your slots, you need unique IO buffs, you need hamis.  Oh and Inf because hamis are getting more expensive.  If you are leveling up on your own without farming then good luck to you.

 

Thugs slotting:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end IO (any), 1 raw end IO, 2 unique IO aura buffs

Enforcers slotting: 2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end IO (any), 2 cytoskeletons (end/def/tohit), 1 lotg 7.5% - this maximizes defense and pet end consumption, tohit is a bonus

Bruiser:  Same as thugs

Gang War:  I never take it because its cute, they die easily and most of the time they are idle because pets cant go through one another and theres only so much room.  its painful to watch the melee tweak out trying to melee, but cant.  Can also be taken just to be an IO mule.  Like using 3-4 slots to frankenslot acc/dmg/rech and the remaining for unique IOs or procs

 

Your secondary is up to you.  But /traps is your only option if you want to stay Natural

Web nade needs its base slot only, acc/mez hami

Caltrops only needs 2 rech, later on when your arsonist gets its fire patches itll keep stuff in them

Triage beaon is up to you, i slapped 5/6 doc wounds in it, rarely gets used to full duration.  I get more use out of Aid Other

Acid Mortar is cool with 1 acc 2 rech

FF Gen I slotted 2 def, 1 lotg 7.5%

Poison Trap 2 rech

Drones and mine skip.  Drones are only good for taking the alpha strike in groups, you will never have enough time to set up a mine unless solo

Detonator is up to you.  Note the Bruiser's Fury will boost its damage, or any inspirations on whatever pet you want, oh and pet level is also a factor.  IE a bruiser will always do more base damage over say, the arsonist.  The pet will always die

 

Because of traps light need for slots I had plenty of room for the pistol attacks, you wont always be setting up traps and downtime is a thing

 

Power Pools are:

Leadership for Maneuvers as early as I could fit it in, and Assault later on

Hasten was taken in the 40s

Travel power of your choice

Medicine

And Black Scorp patron.  Power Boost wont effect traps but the +def toggle stacks nicely with FFGen

[Nyghtmaire]

Just about any secondary would work with Thugs, at least with a minor bit of “technological” hand waving. Some are stronger than others.

 

Storm? Massive damage. Thinking Sean Connery in the Avengers movie with a portable weather control device. Same sort of explanation with Sonic, thermal, Time, FF, Cold, Radiation, or Nature. Traps or TA? Clear tool base. Dark could be tricky, but explaining the secondary as originating from an ancient cursed totem... it could work. And let’s be real, an “ancient cursed totem” can provide a story for just about any secondary once that narrative door is opened. Hell, Family Consigliere's seem to mix super strength and gravity domination. Basically, any of this depends on the background in which you’re willing to invest.

 

As for the suggestion above that MMS are as expensive as dominators, that hasn’t been my experience. Investment in the unique pet IOs IS very helpful: 10% def to all, 20% AOE (25% at level 50), and 30% resistance (35 at level 50) is a significant benefit. But depending on the secondary and its needs, there is a lot more flexibility with Thugs than some other primaries (mainly due to Gang War and the ability to slot the aforementioned pet unique IOs / all six can get dumped in there if you want). For example, the 2 +def uniques, along with maneuvers from the mastermind will give you defense capped pets on  IOs, when you factor in the Enforcers’ maneuvers ability, with FF, Cold, or Time. 

Assuming you start on standard difficulty, there are certain levels in the 20s at which it becomes fairly easy to increase the challenge: level 22 (worthwhile slotting of crafted IOs), Level 24 (gain 2d tier 2 pet), level 26 (gain tier 3 pet), and 32 (second upgrade power). 

[Yomo Kimyata]

This is good stuff, thank you you two.

 

I have a handful of MMs but I'm not a good player.  I tend to just use the three default settings because I'm pretty lazy.  I have a Beasts/Traps who just unlocked his alpha, and I can run him pretty consistently at +3/x5 with zero problems, but I suspect that's probably one of the stronger combinations.  With respect to slotting, I'm definitely getting all the special IOs in there, and for MMs I like to 3 x2 slot the ATO for recharge as well.  I really hadn't thought about Hammis.

 

For roleplaying, my original concept was that the mastermind is a genius planner, so every thing has been foreseen and accounted for.  At the same time, he instills complete loyalty in his followers.  Putting aside entirely how good any of the secondaries are, I'm having some trouble.  I can rule out cold, electric, force field, sonic, storm, thermal.  I have my traps already, and I guess I could repeat that, but I dunno.  Purely thematically, I'm leaning towards pain domination (maybe time), but my play experience with that set has been pretty mixed.

[Yomo Kimyata]

On 10/4/2020 at 6:15 PM, Nyghtmaire said:

Thinking Sean Connery in the Avengers movie with a portable weather control device.

Knock knock.

Who's there?

Dishes.

Dishes who?

Dishes Sean Connery.

[Nyghtmaire]

Excellent! Moore knock knock jokes!

 

 

[Riverdusk]

2 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

This is good stuff, thank you you two.

 

I have a handful of MMs but I'm not a good player.  I tend to just use the three default settings because I'm pretty lazy.  I have a Beasts/Traps who just unlocked his alpha, and I can run him pretty consistently at +3/x5 with zero problems, but I suspect that's probably one of the stronger combinations.  With respect to slotting, I'm definitely getting all the special IOs in there, and for MMs I like to 3 x2 slot the ATO for recharge as well.  I really hadn't thought about Hammis.

 

For roleplaying, my original concept was that the mastermind is a genius planner, so every thing has been foreseen and accounted for.  At the same time, he instills complete loyalty in his followers.  Putting aside entirely how good any of the secondaries are, I'm having some trouble.  I can rule out cold, electric, force field, sonic, storm, thermal.  I have my traps already, and I guess I could repeat that, but I dunno.  Purely thematically, I'm leaning towards pain domination (maybe time), but my play experience with that set has been pretty mixed.

Honestly one of the easiest and most powerful secondary's on a MM I've found is /time.  It allows for a pretty chill playstyle while generally making your pets darn tough.  Thugs especially as they really don't even need power boosted farsight, farsight alone should do well for them. Which is good since the devs have mentioned power boost as one of the things they are "looking at".  

 

Maybe your genius invented some kind of time control device.  "Every thing has been foreseen and accounted for" actually sounds right on the nose for time even.

Edited October 6, 2020 by Riverdusk

[Nyghtmaire]

2 hours ago, Riverdusk said:

 

Maybe your genius invented some kind of time control device.  "Every thing has been foreseen and accounted for" actually sounds right on the nose for time even.

Eidetic memory + designer drugs enhancing computational abilities? Mastermind version of a Mentat (Dune/Frank Herbert)? So many possibilities!

[Yomo Kimyata]

I did end up going with /time, even though I already have a mercs/time who is languishing in his 30s (another concept mastermind named Billy Pilgrim).

 

On 10/6/2020 at 4:02 PM, Riverdusk said:

 

Maybe your genius invented some kind of time control device.  "Every thing has been foreseen and accounted for" actually sounds right on the nose for time even.

 

On 10/6/2020 at 6:43 PM, Nyghtmaire said:

Eidetic memory + designer drugs enhancing computational abilities? Mastermind version of a Mentat (Dune/Frank Herbert)? So many possibilities!

My rationale is that he is so prepared, it's "almost as if he could look forward in time" to see what's going to happen.  He uses Reveal as soon as he steps on a map (which bothers me a little, but hey, THEME!)  I tried to minimize visuals, which so far means using a dark grey color and "bright" settings, but any more advice is welcomed!

[Force Redux]

On 10/4/2020 at 1:53 PM, kelika2 said:

MMs like doms are a level 50 only class.  Or late bloomer if thats less offensive.  You need all your slots, you need unique IO buffs, you need hamis.  Oh and Inf because hamis are getting more expensive.  If you are leveling up on your own without farming then good luck to you.

Very respectfully, I find this statement to be decidedly untrue. And by reading it, I don't want people who are not familiar with MM to assume its an end-game only class. it is not. In fact, it is one of the easiest ATs to level up. I'll explain why, below. 

 

First off, every class benefits from being level 50 with slotting and powers to fill in the gaps. This statement that they are late bloomers is true of every single AT. Example, Scrappers and Blasters (arguabley the two most straight-forward ATs)? They need to have 15 extra slots just for a nice, rounded 3 attacks for single target. If you want AOE add another 15 slots for 3 AOE attacks with full slotting. That's before you even get to your Secondary Powers. 

 

For the sake of argument, let's assume "leveling up" does not include running level 54 +4/x8 PI purple missions or other events where you are simply being carried. Anyone, any AT, any build can get through that so long as they don't try to face tank things. We will assume playing level-appropriate content at no more than +1 which is where most real leveling teams hang at, on average. Or if you are soloing, then whatever, you set it for your break-even point. For me, again, that's typically been +1 unless I'm in Rogue Isles, then it might be +0 because of the mobs there. 

 

Now, MMs can do better than any other AT with fewer slots. Why? Because their pets come with multiple attack powers of their own. That means, the MM doesn't need to worry about filling out a complete attack chain early on. They don't worry about Recharge for their  attacks or END drain from attacks. You can simply slot your pets 1 ACC, 2 DAM to start. Most of the pets are not Endurance hungry (excepting Demon Prince, etc). So this lets them land hits and do decent damage right off the bat. And they are going to be doing it with multiple attacks. Every time you improve this slotting, you are giving the slot benefits to muliple powers. At level 19, having T1 and T2 pets at +1ACC/+3 DAM is only two powers, and 6 slots. You'll have had the first pet upgrade, meaning your pets generally are attacking with few pauses, having enough powers. Among all the 3 pets who are active at that level, you have a relatively complete single target attack chain.

 

Compare that to a scrapper. For the same, the scrapper needs roughly 3 attacks. He'll need the same 1 ACC, 3 DAM, but will also require 1 ENDredux and 1 Recharge just to make sure he's not being drained of his blue bar and that they come up quick enough to have low downtime on recharge.  That's 3 powers and 9 slots, which means the scrapper has to put in 50% more slots/powers to achieve the same results as the MM. And that's not even looking at the lack of AoE in this assumption, ,whereas MM pets might have an AOE attack or two included in their upgrade.

 

Looking at secondaries, most Scrapper secondaries do not begin to fulfil their purpose until level 25 IOs/SOs. Typically there are three defensive powers of some sort, that each require about 2 extra slots to have a noticable boost to defense/resists/heals, etc.  In place of these, a Mastermind with either Time or Dark (the two big MM secondaries) will have chosen three core powers (Time's Juncture, Temporal Mending and Distortion Field for TIME, or Twilight Grasp, Darkest Night and Tar Patch). All of these can perform adequately with 1-4 slots, so call it a break even with Scrappers. 

 

MMs are still ahead. 

 

They are also safer. The pets are drawing aggro. If one goes down, resummon it. Did you have to eat a blue candy? Don't worry, the scrapper likely had to as well. He's not fully slotted or IO'd out either. Remember the old days before IOs when begged for Accelerate Metabolism? I do. These days? Not so much. That's because EVERY AT benefits from being level 50, with full slots and IOs. Not just MMs. 

 

You need the Pet IOs? No, you do not. Again, not unless you are pushing purple content. Then sure. But if you are doing that on any AT, you are going to want IOs. My leveling Tanker would not be doing what she did leveling without IOs. My stalker needed his two Archetype IOs to essentially make the AT what it should have been from the start? Are Stalkers a end-game only AT? No, they shine at lower levels more than scrappers IMO. But if you claim that MMs are the only class to need Unique IOs at 50 (or before) then that's highly inaccurate. Many AT builds rely on a number of IO pieces.

 

Hami Os?  Definitely NOT needed on MMs. I use a single IO on all my MMs, and that's in Lich for Acc/Mezz since he actually benefits from it rather easily, low-hanging fruit for my Necro/Dark controllermind build. But does he NEED it? No. You can almost max out any MM pet with five cheap IOs from any of the MM sets:

 

Acc/Dam/End x 3

Acc/Dam

Dam/End

 

This gives 86.4% Accuracy, Damage, End Reduction.  

 

That sixth slot is left for your Unique IOs, whenever you want. And they really aren't that expensive, compared to other Uniques that other ATs rely on. 

 

There is no where where a Hami-O is needed. At all. Ever. Now, you can benefit from them, easily. But they are not necessary. If you have a build that demands a Hami-O, I'll build an alternate build that will do just as well without. 

 

Having to farm to level up? False. I came into Homecoming last year with nothing. I don't have a farming character to my name. I don't play the market. I just play the game, collect merits, sell recipes/drops and I've been able to fully kit out 12 Incarnated characters of various ATs. And I still have Inf and Merits to spare. 

 

My first character on HC? A MM. Leveled my Bots/FF all the way up to 50 through regular groups, no power leveling, just to relive the experience. Managed to get my first two pet Defense IOs by my 30s by selling merit rewards from TFs and recipes. Literally one Summer Blockbuster run can afford you both, if not more. Right now on the AH, Overhwelming Force sells for 10-15 million. Edict of the Master Defense IO? 2 million. How hard is that? 

 

Let's not make MM harder out than it is. Its actually a very forgiving AT to build mechanically, even on a budget. 

 

The real barrier is not the cost in slots, or powers, or Hami-Os, or IOs, or Influence. The real barrier is whether or not the player enjoys playstyle of commanding pets and having to also manage said pets. That's my 2 Credits, and I'm sticking to it. Thank you.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Force Redux

[TheSpiritFox]

On 10/4/2020 at 3:53 PM, kelika2 said:

MMs like doms are a level 50 only class.  Or late bloomer if thats less offensive.  You need all your slots, you need unique IO buffs, you need hamis.  Oh and Inf because hamis are getting more expensive.  If you are leveling up on your own without farming then good luck to you.

 

Thugs slotting:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end IO (any), 1 raw end IO, 2 unique IO aura buffs

Enforcers slotting: 2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end IO (any), 2 cytoskeletons (end/def/tohit), 1 lotg 7.5% - this maximizes defense and pet end consumption, tohit is a bonus

Bruiser:  Same as thugs

Gang War:  I never take it because its cute, they die easily and most of the time they are idle because pets cant go through one another and theres only so much room.  its painful to watch the melee tweak out trying to melee, but cant.  Can also be taken just to be an IO mule.  Like using 3-4 slots to frankenslot acc/dmg/rech and the remaining for unique IOs or procs

 

Your secondary is up to you.  But /traps is your only option if you want to stay Natural

Web nade needs its base slot only, acc/mez hami

Caltrops only needs 2 rech, later on when your arsonist gets its fire patches itll keep stuff in them

Triage beaon is up to you, i slapped 5/6 doc wounds in it, rarely gets used to full duration.  I get more use out of Aid Other

Acid Mortar is cool with 1 acc 2 rech

FF Gen I slotted 2 def, 1 lotg 7.5%

Poison Trap 2 rech

Drones and mine skip.  Drones are only good for taking the alpha strike in groups, you will never have enough time to set up a mine unless solo

Detonator is up to you.  Note the Bruiser's Fury will boost its damage, or any inspirations on whatever pet you want, oh and pet level is also a factor.  IE a bruiser will always do more base damage over say, the arsonist.  The pet will always die

 

Because of traps light need for slots I had plenty of room for the pistol attacks, you wont always be setting up traps and downtime is a thing

 

Power Pools are:

Leadership for Maneuvers as early as I could fit it in, and Assault later on

Hasten was taken in the 40s

Travel power of your choice

Medicine

And Black Scorp patron.  Power Boost wont effect traps but the +def toggle stacks nicely with FFGen

Dude NO. 

 

This is my slotting for thugs/traps across most of its powers. Also have super jump with kb IOs, 4 slots in stamina and 2 in health, maneuvers, tactics, assault, etc. 

 

This is about as ideal slotting as you can come up with for thugs and it is way cheaper than filling it with hami-os. You can fit two auras in thugs while still getting good enhancement values AND getting 2 +10% recharge bonuses just out of thugs. Enforcers get the hami os so you can fit two damage procs and a LOTG def/global rech. Bruiser gets the other 4 pieces of mark of supremacy for another 10% recharge, soulbound allegiance for bruiser buildup and DPS, and a hami to round out accuracy and damage values. Plus 4 auras in gang war and 2 maxed recharge IOs. 

 

This is about as solid a thugs/traps build as it is possible to make in the game. I went with a purple set in acid mortar purely for recharge bonuses, it doesn't help the damage much but the build has the slots to do it if you aren't taking personal attacks. If you are, then I'd reslot acid mortar while leaving most of the rest alone. This build is defense over offense but dude you are not slotting out your thugs traps the right way if you are not chasing set bonuses, recharge is GOD with a traps build it is your FIRST build priority. 

Also seekers are great. Actually great. Taking the alpha is an incredibly useful tool for a build which does not have an actual AOE heal like /dark or /time to actively help keep your dudes all alive at once. Seekers are how you don't lose a minion going into a group pretty much ever. Trip mine and detonator are garbage, but you're NOT capitalizing on your build potential with the slotting you described. 

 

The entire trick is recharge. My poison trap has a 30 second recharge, my acid mortar the same. I can keep 2 acid mortars out at all times and they stack. I have seekers up every 25 seconds. Caltrops is on a 14 second goddamn recharge I can have 3 caltrops patches out at once. 

 

You talked about downtime between traps. Nope. With the long cast times of trap dropping, I have time to throw a few web grenades in between trap casts with no personal attacks. Bonfire is permaed, there is always one on the ground unless its at the last mob group during a steamroll. I am constantly dropping traps, throwing seekers, caltropping everywhere and anywhere, and then microing my pets to specifically target hard targets like bosses while I let the aoe eat the minions and lts. Its more than enough to keep you busy especially at 50. Traps with sufficient recharge is a decently active secondary. 

 

And at the same time, tbh, its nice when all the traps are down, you have 5 seconds before any recharges are up, and you just sit there and watch the carnage in peace. Its such a chill playstyle, I highly recommend it. Thugs/traps is one of the strongest characters in the game and it is possibly the chillest playstyle of any AT or powerset combo in the game. Nothing feels as mastermindy as thugs or bots /traps. 

 

This build with incarnates can solo most +4x8 content incarnate content or not. It is literally designed to carry +4x8 ITFs. I can solo the entire ITF with this build minus the final boss because at +4 that autohit aoe shreds your pets and there's not a goddamn thing in the world you can do to stop it, trying to finish Rommy and his nictus alone would probably require you to stay in mission long enough to summon a lore pet several times after clearing every enemy within a half mile of rommy first. 

 

Traps is at it's strongest when the traps come up decently fast. Perma poison trap is like what? An extra 200 DPS on AV level enemies by neutering their regen? Permanently? You want poison trap up fast. Two acid mortars? Thats -20% resistance per acid mortar, -20% again if either of them procs achilles on a target, -20% on top of that if caltrops or bonfire procs annihilation on a target.  -1000% regen, -80% resistance, -45% defense (all autohit if the procs go off) and that's a maximum of 4 powers used, 2 of which are procced out to actually do a pretty respectable amount of aoe damage all on their own. 

 

Thugs traps is a goddamn deathpit. You set up your traps and keep your minions in a bubble and you use things like seekers and patron attacks (lol) to pull shit INTO your death pit where your minions on defensive goto shred anything that looks at you sideways and you're basically close to unkillable so long as your minions are not individually aggro capped cause nothing in this game can survive like 46 dudes attacking it all at the same time lol. 

 

My thugs traps can lead steamrolls. If it's not +4x8, it just IS the steamroller. 55 second pylon kill with no lore pet. 

 

And it exemps well. Yes I have attuned purples. I literally was just buying all my enhancements and forgot to switch to non attuned when I got to the purple sets so fuck it, I have non boosted purples. Whatever. 

Edited October 10, 2020 by TheSpiritFox

[TheSpiritFox]

2 hours ago, Force Redux said:

Very respectfully, I find this statement to be decidedly untrue. And by reading it, I don't want people who are not familiar with MM to assume its an end-game only class. it is not. In fact, it is one of the easiest ATs to level up. I'll explain why, below. 

 

1000% agree with this statement. 

[Riverdusk]

 

3 hours ago, Force Redux said:

For the sake of argument, let's assume "leveling up" does not include running level 54 +4/x8 PI purple missions or other events where you are simply being carried. Anyone, any AT, any build can get through that so long as they don't try to face tank things. We will assume playing level-appropriate content at no more than +1 which is where most real leveling teams hang at, on average. Or if you are soloing, then whatever, you set it for your break-even point. For me, again, that's typically been +1 unless I'm in Rogue Isles, then it might be +0 because of the mobs there. 

 

Agreed as well.  I think they must be talking about that certain playstyle.   I could see that belief that they are late blooming if you are one of those that spends their leveling up time jumping on high level teams that a lot of times are running at +4/x8 as Force Redux mentioned.  You are then yourself -1 to the team lead and now your pets might be trying to fight +7/+6/+5 enemies depending on tier.  Good luck on that one.   Once you get to 50 yourself and especially once you get a level shift suddenly those are "only" +5/+4/+3 enemies your pets are battling.  HUGE difference.  

 

However if you level up solo at a "reasonable" difficulty or on level appropriate teams, it shouldn't be difficult and as others have said, they are actually one of the more forgiving AT's to level.  You can even be pretty lazy about playing them unless you push things.  

Edited October 10, 2020 by Riverdusk

[Yomo Kimyata]

This alt is actually a leveling alt that uses what I’m calling “early blooming” techniques, which means I slot IOs early and often (kismet and panacea+ at level 7, ATOs at level 10, etc.). I’m currently at level 22 and running solo mission content at +2/x3 and it’s challenging but satisfying, especially since I don’t have any specialized macros yet.

 

Early blooming makes things a lot easier.  Right now I’ve got ?Mark of Supremacy? 2 slotted in both minions and Gang War, some spot ATOs from the other set, etc.

 

One thing I wanted to sanity check.  I’ve got the Achilles heel proc in call enforcer and it seems to trigger a fair amount.  Why don’t I see this in other builds (or am I just not looking hard enough)?

 

 

[Force Redux]

Agree. Enforcers (specifically those who are not Traps) should always have Achilles Heel and either one of the Damage Procs OR Gaussian's % build up.

Edited October 11, 2020 by Force Redux

[kelika2]

13 hours ago, Force Redux said:

Very respectfully, I find this statement to be decidedly untrue. And by reading it, I don't want people who are not familiar with MM to assume its an end-game only class. it is not.

I stopped reading right here.  One the post is just too long and you keep your aura buffing IOs even when you exemp down.  And masterminds being weak as they are you need all your slots to just keep up even in lower level stuff.

 

You may argue this all you want, but there is a reason the monthly Archetype reports has them in the lowest population brackets.  Please do not write a book to disagree.  Just say Disagree please.

[TheSpiritFox]

1 hour ago, kelika2 said:

I stopped reading right here.  One the post is just too long and you keep your aura buffing IOs even when you exemp down.  And masterminds being weak as they are you need all your slots to just keep up even in lower level stuff.

 

You may argue this all you want, but there is a reason the monthly Archetype reports has them in the lowest population brackets.  Please do not write a book to disagree.  Just say Disagree please.

This is pretty obstinate and disrespectful. You don't like having your idea that MMs are weak challenged. 

 

If you can't solo the ITF at +1 with your 50 Thugs/Traps you built it wrong. Promise. Incarnates are needed, but it's easy with the right ones. 

 

3 hours ago, Force Redux said:

Agree. Enforcers should always have Achilles Heel and either one of the Damage Procs OR Gaussian's % build up.

Achillles is something I end up slotting other places. Like, a thugs natures has it in the nature debuff, my thugs/traps has it in acid mortar and my thugs/time in slowed response. Not wanting to like stack it too hard, I ended up putting damage procs in the enforcers. 

 

I've never tried the build up proc. I'm curious at the damage difference it makes vs a proc. I'd like to see that mathed out, though I tend towards procs cause guaranteed damage. 

[kelika2]

1 hour ago, TheSpiritFox said:

This is pretty obstinate and disrespectful. You don't like having your idea that MMs are weak challenged.

On a literal game mechanical level, masterminds are weaker than the other archetypes.  As much as I love the AT from live and kinda sorta now, I know their limitations.  There is nothing to challenge when it is a cold hard fact and folks anecdotal rebuttals will not change my mind.  And if I can open up their accounts like a book, I bet most will have more brutes and blasters over masterminds.  While they still claim to like masterminds, of course.

 

This game is easy enough to have fun, but if I wanna min/max, I wont go mastermind.

[Sovera]

On 10/4/2020 at 7:47 PM, Yomo Kimyata said:

A number of my character stories revolve around a master criminal who they once worked for before they went out on their own.  I think of him as a faction leader and I’d like to create him in game.

 

The problem I’m having is that conceptually he works as a mastermind, specifically thugs, but I’m having a hard time justifying a super-DUPER villain that is a MM.  I want to build something that feels conceptually overpowered, but my experience with MM has been underwhelming.  Any advice?  Thanks in advance!

Make a Plant Controller. Now every enemy is your minion ^^

4 hours ago, kelika2 said:

I stopped reading right here.  One the post is just too long and you keep your aura buffing IOs even when you exemp down.  And masterminds being weak as they are you need all your slots to just keep up even in lower level stuff.

 

You may argue this all you want, but there is a reason the monthly Archetype reports has them in the lowest population brackets.  Please do not write a book to disagree.  Just say Disagree please.

Imagine coming to a FORUM to READ posts and complaining there is too much TEXT to READ. This isn't Twitter, Kelika the second.

 

Everything they said was correct, even if it is true that MMs have become outdated as Controllers have. MMs -do- bloom early with a lack of needed slots making them easy to run, and as a plus the secondary allows them to buff/heal the team. The most glaring downside is how passive they are mostly just pressing attack.

 

One thing where the lack of a damage meter hinders things is how a MM -can- be expected to overcome other more damaging ATs in the long in how they can just set the pets to aggressive and let them go ham while the player ignores the enemies and focuses in buffing and healing.

[Force Redux]

@TheSpiritFox indeed, with /Traps the Achilles Heel proc becomes less valuable. I should have clarified, this is my general rule for Thugs. Ty! 😁

[kelika2]

53 minutes ago, Sovera said:

Imagine coming to a FORUM to READ

able=/=willing

Just because they took the time does not mean everyone is willing to take the time.

Note, the book of world records does not record the worlds largest/longest turd because they are just flat out not interested

 

Above statement may or may not be relevant in the 10 or so years since that South Park episode aired.  I try to edit my posts to be strait and to the point as I can for others.  While you may go through my history to find an abnormality, many people forget the readers in favor of themselves.

 

However, in the spirit of goodness and the original poster, i still stand by my original post on his help to be the strongest mastermind available to the Homecoming servers status.  And if you disagree, please keep your posts to a readable length to the average reader.

Edited October 11, 2020 by kelika2
they

[Force Redux]

6 hours ago, kelika2 said:

I stopped reading right here.  One the post is just too long and you keep your aura buffing IOs even when you exemp down.  And masterminds being weak as they are you need all your slots to just keep up even in lower level stuff.

 

You may argue this all you want, but there is a reason the monthly Archetype reports has them in the lowest population brackets.  Please do not write a book to disagree.  Just say Disagree please.

 

Public Service Announcement:

The AT monthly stats sheets (the two that were published so far one in Aug 2019 and the other in spring 2020) show MMs in the top ATs. They were #3 in the August 2019 stats. The lowest population ATs in the census have ALWAYS been Peacebringers, Warshades, Spiders, Widows and Stalkers.  

 

@kelika2 Where are you getting your information from to make such an inaccurate claim? It certainly wasn't from the Homecoming dev report. 

 

Let's be clear, I'm not disagreeing. I'm correcting you. If you wanted to claim the sun was a cube, I would not be disagreeing to inform you that it is, in fact, an imperfect sphere. That would be correcting you. And I'm correcting you. 

 

I don't expect you to allow yourself to be corrected. You've already demonstrated an alarming ability to close your eyes and remain willfully ignorant. So my continued posting will be for those who might be unduly influenced by your misinformation. 

 

To the educated reader and the willing-to-learn, allow me to continue:

 

Here are two builds that compare what you can achieve at level 19, one for a Thugs/Traps MM and another for a Claws/SR scrapper. The IO numbers are for level 50, so realize they would be lower on a level 19, but the point is the number of slots and what you can slot, all other things being equal for the IOs. 

 

(to those who are willing to learn, the information below is numerically based and demonstrates a fair comparison between ATs that might illustrate MMs are not, in fact, difficult to level up, function well on minimal slotting, and are rather versatile).

 

Thugs/Traps MM level 19 Build crafted IOs only

This build has 15% global defense for Thugs and MM. The Enforcer adds about another 8% Defense vs all, so your minions have about 23% global Defense. On top of that, you ignore the need for recharge (pets don't benefit anyway), EndRedux (most pets do not run out) and can focus on Accuracy (1 slot) and Damage (3 slots for now, so at nearing cap at level 19). By the first upgrade the pets have multiple AOE attacks as well. You also have a heal for the pets and self, plus some damage mitigation (caltrops and web grenade), some control for running mobs (Web grenade), status protection for all (FFG) and some major debuffing/aggro generation (Acid Mortar). An all around good package. And all at level 19, by the way. 

 

Spoiler

 

Villain Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Thug Life: Level 49 Natural Mastermind
Primary Power Set: Thugs
Secondary Power Set: Traps
Power Pool: Flight
Power Pool: Medicine

Villain Profile:
Level 1: Call Thugs

• (A) Accuracy IO
• (3) Damage Increase IO
• (3) Damage Increase IO
• (7) Damage Increase IO

Level 1: Web Grenade

• (A) Accuracy IO

Level 2: Caltrops

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO
• (7) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 4: Hover

• (A) Defense Buff IO

Level 6: Equip Thugs

• (A) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 8: Aid Other

• (A) Healing IO
• (9) Recharge Reduction IO
• (9) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 10: Acid Mortar

• (A) Accuracy IO
• (11) Recharge Reduction IO
• (11) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 12: Call Enforcer

• (A) Accuracy IO
• (13) Damage Increase IO
• (13) Damage Increase IO
• (17) Damage Increase IO

Level 14: Aid Self

• (A) Healing IO
• (15) Recharge Reduction IO
• (15) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 16: Force Field Generator

• (A) Defense Buff IO
• (17) Defense Buff IO
• (19) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 18: Gang War

• (A) Empty
• (19) Empty

 

 

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Dash

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Slide

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Quick

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Rush

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Prestige Power Surge

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Sprint

• (A) Empty

Level 1: Supremacy 

Level 2: Rest

 

Claws/SR level 19 Scrapper crafted IOs only

This build is used as counterpoint to the MM build above. It is a classic, easy, quick build that gets an early attack chain. I used Super Reflexes since it is the closest comparison to Traps as they are both defense based and lack a real heal (let's save the discussion on Triage Beacon for another time). With the same level, same slots, same available crafted IOs, the scrapper has 3 single target attacks with less total damage buff (has to slot some EndRedux that the MM doesn't have to), and only one AOE (again, less than the MM, who has not only Burst in his minions, but the Arsonist and his burn patches which are arguably superior). Additionally, the scrapper has no way to debuff targets. The scrapper has no heal. The srapper has no crowd control. All they have at 19 are their attacks. And they do not compare to the MM's three minions.

 

In a teaming environment, again, the MM is the superior force. Leveling or end-game. Because of Traps, they are a force multiplier, not only helping themselves, but also helping teammates perform better - boosting their protection, their damage, etc.

 

What about defense? Surely the Scrapper can excel there? Yes. 30% Melee/Ranged, but 0% AOE.  That's a trade off against the 23% Global that the MM has that includes AOE and all typed damage (including Psi). I'd actually rule in favor of the Scrapper, here, but not by much. He's got no healing, whereas the MM can patch up the occasional miss through Aid Other. Plus he has Acid Mortar to draw fire. And Caltrops to scatter mobs. And more damage, more AoE and debuffs to make fights quicker. On second thought, the point goes to the MM. He'll kill things quicker and with less risk. All the scrapper has is his Defense, but that's it.

 

The two open spots in Gang War for the MM are open for Unique Pet IOs. If by some chance the MM ran a Summer Blockbuster, and got the Overwhelming Force enhancer, and sold it for two of the IOs, they would add 10% Global Defense vs. all for their pets, boosting them to 33% Global. Making them superior in all regards to the Scrapper. 

 

Don't get me wrong. Scrappers are fun. But when you combine a support set with a pet set, you have the opportunity to do wonderful things. 

 

For those able to exercise adult patience to read this, I hope it was helpful. I'm available to make a complete build or offer some further thoughts.

 

TL;DR: reading is helpful. 

 

Spoiler

 

Hero Plan by Mids' Reborn : Hero Designer 2.6.1.25
https://github.com/Crytilis/mids-reborn-hero-designer

Click this DataLink to open the build!

Easy Leveler: Level 49 Natural Scrapper
Primary Power Set: Claws
Secondary Power Set: Super Reflexes
Power Pool: Flight

Hero Profile:
Level 1: Swipe

• (A) Accuracy IO
• (5) Damage Increase IO
• (5) Damage Increase IO
• (11) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 1: Focused Fighting

• (A) Defense Buff IO
• (7) Defense Buff IO
• (19) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 2: Strike

• (A) Accuracy IO
• (7) Damage Increase IO
• (9) Damage Increase IO
• (9) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 4: Focused Senses

• (A) Defense Buff IO
• (11) Defense Buff IO
• (19) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 6: Slash

• (A) Accuracy IO
• (13) Damage Increase IO
• (13) Damage Increase IO
• (15) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 8: Spin

• (A) Accuracy IO
• (15) Damage Increase IO
• (17) Damage Increase IO
• (17) Endurance Reduction IO

Level 10: Practiced Brawler

• (A) Recharge Reduction IO

Level 12: Follow Up

• (A) Accuracy IO

Level 14: Hover

• (A) Defense Buff IO

Level 16: Agile

• (A) Defense Buff IO

Level 18: Dodge

• [*] (A)

Defense Buff IO
 

Edited October 11, 2020 by Force Redux

[Force Redux]

On 10/4/2020 at 1:53 PM, kelika2 said:

Thugs slotting:  2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end IO (any), 1 raw end IO, 2 unique IO aura buffs

Enforcers slotting: 2 acc/dmg hamis, 1 acc/dmg/end IO (any), 2 cytoskeletons (end/def/tohit), 1 lotg 7.5% - this maximizes defense and pet end consumption, tohit is a bonus

Bruiser:  Same as thugs

Gang War:  I never take it because its cute, they die easily and most of the time they are idle because pets cant go through one another and theres only so much room.  its painful to watch the melee tweak out trying to melee, but cant.  Can also be taken just to be an IO mule.  Like using 3-4 slots to frankenslot acc/dmg/rech and the remaining for unique IOs or procs

 

Your secondary is up to you.  But /traps is your only option if you want to stay Natural

Web nade needs its base slot only, acc/mez hami

Caltrops only needs 2 rech, later on when your arsonist gets its fire patches itll keep stuff in them

Triage beaon is up to you, i slapped 5/6 doc wounds in it, rarely gets used to full duration.  I get more use out of Aid Other

Acid Mortar is cool with 1 acc 2 rech

FF Gen I slotted 2 def, 1 lotg 7.5%

Poison Trap 2 rech

Drones and mine skip.  Drones are only good for taking the alpha strike in groups, you will never have enough time to set up a mine unless solo

Detonator is up to you.  Note the Bruiser's Fury will boost its damage, or any inspirations on whatever pet you want, oh and pet level is also a factor.  IE a bruiser will always do more base damage over say, the arsonist.  The pet will always die

 

Because of traps light need for slots I had plenty of room for the pistol attacks, you wont always be setting up traps and downtime is a thing

 

Power Pools are:

Leadership for Maneuvers as early as I could fit it in, and Assault later on

Hasten was taken in the 40s

Travel power of your choice

Medicine

And Black Scorp patron.  Power Boost wont effect traps but the +def toggle stacks nicely with FFGen

For someone who is focusing on a late blooming build, with expensive Hami-Os, your suggestions sure miss the mark.

 

Enforcers with Defense slotting? There is no need. You'll be swimming in Defense between base Enforcer maneuvers, your maneuvers, pet IOs and FFG. Enforcers should be getting Damage Proc IOs or Achilles Heel IO. Guassians, if you go with the increased chance for build up per pet data. Not only are you wasting money on the Hami-Os (which are unneeded), are you suboptimally slotting the Enforcers damage capability.

 

Thugs - should be getting the Overhwelming Force KD IO. Huge mitgation, 3x the chance to proc it. Things knocked on their rear ends do not leave Arsonist's Burn Patch, nor do they fire back or run. 

 

Bruiser. Should have the Explosive Strike % damage or Soulbound Allegiance, chance for buildup. This is essential, basic stuff for Bruiser. 

 

Acid Mortar is a damage machine with IO procs. So many set procs can fit in here. Bombardment,  Positron's, Lady Grey, Shield Breaker, Javelin Volley, Annihilation, Achilles, Overwhelming Force..., That you have it only doing base debuffs makes Thugs cry.

 

Poison Trap also can take many many procs. Unbreakable Constraint, Ghost Widow's Embrace, Neuronic Shutdown - stuff for any budget. The Lockdown +2 Mag proc is the very least you can do, enhancing the control aspect of this power greatly. This also makes Thugs cry.

 

I agree Triage Beacon, Drones and Mines are skippable, but Mines really can help with the "Zone of Death" that a Traps can perform better than anyone else, if there is room to take it.

 

Hasten should be taken in the 20s, no later, IMO. Too many Traps rely on decent recharge. 

 

I won't disagree about Black Scorpion, its a good pool for Traps.

 

TL;DR:  That build will do sub-par damage and sub-par secondary effects, focuses on all the wrong things and costs too much for too little.

 

I like big posts and I can not lie
You other brothers can't deny
That when there's lots of words in your face
And lots of texts without much space
You get sprung, want to pull up tough
'Cause you notice that post was stuffed
Deep in the forums I'm swearin'
I'm hooked and I can't stop staring
Oh baby, I want to read wit'cha
And make a mental picture
My Homecoming boys tried to warn me
But that big post you got makes (me so h*rny)…

Edited October 11, 2020 by Force Redux

[Force Redux]

1 hour ago, kelika2 said:

able=/=willing

Just because they took the time does not mean everyone is willing to take the time.

Note, the book of world records does not record the worlds largest/longest turd because they are just flat out not interested

 

Above statement may or may not be relevant in the 10 or so years since that South Park episode aired.  I try to edit my posts to be strait and to the point as I can for others.  While you may go through my history to find an abnormality, many people forget the readers in favor of themselves.

 

However, in the spirit of goodness and the original poster, i still stand by my original post on his help to be the strongest mastermind available to the Homecoming servers status.  And if you disagree, please keep your posts to a readable length to the average reader.

 

No one can motivate you to excel in life. Or to build a better Mastermind. Ignorance is not a virtue,  but it is a right. 

 

The only turd in this topic is the "build" you  posted to the OP. If the OP wants a "strongest mastermind" following your advice would not be a part of it. Go, open Mids, read the forums, understand what the powers do, how they benefit from the IO system, and what you can do to capitalize on it. Because as things stand, you haven't, and should.  

 

/less chars than your post.

[Force Redux]

9 hours ago, Yomo Kimyata said:

This alt is actually a leveling alt that uses what I’m calling “early blooming” techniques, which means I slot IOs early and often (kismet and panacea+ at level 7, ATOs at level 10, etc.). I’m currently at level 22 and running solo mission content at +2/x3 and it’s challenging but satisfying, especially since I don’t have any specialized macros yet.

 

Early blooming makes things a lot easier.  Right now I’ve got ?Mark of Supremacy? 2 slotted in both minions and Gang War, some spot ATOs from the other set, etc.

 

One thing I wanted to sanity check.  I’ve got the Achilles heel proc in call enforcer and it seems to trigger a fair amount.  Why don’t I see this in other builds (or am I just not looking hard enough)?

 

 

I used Achilles and Lady Gray both in my Enforcers. Yes, a second damage proc would be handy, but I build for teams, too, and increasing everyone else's damage is my goal, so its a trade-off. You can't go wrong either way, if you don't wish to use Achilles Heel, but it is part of my strategy as a force multiplier in my Thugs/Time (yes, I know I have Time's constraint, but I like stacking -Res).