captainstar Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Since we have to use a enhancment to fix the KB problem. Why not just put that option in character creation and save us some time and "money"? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyonico Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 what "problem"? 3 What this team needs is more Defenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainstar Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 2 minutes ago, Psyonico said: what "problem"? Like Tankers complaining that KB mess with all mobs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greycat Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Not a problem. If tankers are complaining about it, then whoever's using KB is not using it well. (Or they're just kneejerk complaining, which also happens.) Plus, technically, the option is at character creation. If you don't like or can't use KB properly? Don't pick a set with KB. There. Option at character creation granted. 2 Primarily on Everlasting. Squid afficionado. Former creator of Copypastas. General smartalec. I tried to combine Circle and DE, but all I got were garden variety evil mages. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyonico Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 Honestly, the KB->KD is a trade-off. you have to use a slot to get it, meaning you can't 6 slot. There are advantages to it, but there are also disadvantages. I don't think it's a good idea to just have a global KB->KD without some sort of trade-off. 1 What this team needs is more Defenders Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
captainstar Posted January 10, 2021 Author Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Greycat said: Not a problem. If tankers are complaining about it, then whoever's using KB is not using it well. (Or they're just kneejerk complaining, which also happens.) Plus, technically, the option is at character creation. If you don't like or can't use KB properly? Don't pick a set with KB. There. Option at character creation granted. Not if I want a power with the same animation effect as energy. Radiation get close, but a bit slow in comparation. Edited January 10, 2021 by captainstar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxy Brain Posted January 10, 2021 Share Posted January 10, 2021 (edited) 1 hour ago, Psyonico said: Honestly, the KB->KD is a trade-off. you have to use a slot to get it, meaning you can't 6 slot. There are advantages to it, but there are also disadvantages. I don't think it's a good idea to just have a global KB->KD without some sort of trade-off. Yes and no.... for many powers the conversion to KD is worth far far more. Tbh, I will still campaign that KB is not superheroic enough and should be buffed. Edited January 10, 2021 by Galaxy Brain 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeraphimKensai Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 5 hours ago, Galaxy Brain said: Tbh, I will still campaign that KB is not superheroic enough and should be buffed. I still like my idea on KB, that mobs KB'd take bonus damage based on distance they are tossed and the impact they make with the ground. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxy Brain Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 7 minutes ago, SeraphimKensai said: I still like my idea on KB, that mobs KB'd take bonus damage based on distance they are tossed and the impact they make with the ground. Same here, my OG idea was that they just take damage from being KB'ed near immediately due to the (force), and to prevent yeeting into an immediate wall being "bad" 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wavicle Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 It is ALMOST ALWAYS kneejerk complaining. After ONE fight where absolutely nothing went wrong whatsoever. People who don't like knockback should just not run teams. Or better yet, delete their accounts. 3 Wavicle's Guide To What Really Matters: What Needs To Be Done On Every Toon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Outrider_01 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 Don't group, avoid KB power sets. Problem solved, biggest problem are AoE/Cone...nobody cares if you are bouncing a boss across the warehouse. 2 "Farming is just more fun in my opinion, beating up hordes of angry cosplayers...." - Coyotedancer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AerialAssault Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 My problem with this is that sooner or later, it stops being an 'option' and starts being a 'requirement'. I'd rather we explore making KB more useful before implementing drastic measures like this. Look at what powers are most often slotted for KB->KD and think about why people feel the need to slot that enhancement. I think enemies taking additional damage for being thrown around would be a step in the right direction. 4 Oh? You like City of Heroes? Name every player character. I'll be waiting in my PMs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxy Brain Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 (edited) 5 hours ago, AerialAssault said: Look at what powers are most often slotted for KB->KD and think about why people feel the need to slot that enhancement. I feel this is super relevant. Usually, there is just 1 "big annoying KB power" per set where this not only becomes a minor slot tax, but ends up usually revamping the power into an amazing one (Shockwave in Claws, Hand/Thunder Clap, Bonfire, Umbral Torrent, etc). There are only a few sets that have MULTIPLE big knocks that are also AoE's, which is where the frustration and sort of the "Tax" comes in. Even still, one of those (storm) GREATLY benefits from having Tornado deal KD and drill into opponents. Heck, lets break it down and look at the AoE KB in the game. ST KB is largely OK unless somebody is actively trolling in which case that is a player problem, and the unspoken rule is "ST KB = that guy is your problem". It's the AoEs that cause grief: Archery: Explosive Arrow Assault Rifle: Buckshot, M30 grenade Dark Blast: Umbral Torrent Dual Pistols: Bullet Rain Energy Blast: Energy Torrent, Explosive Blast, Nova Psychic Blast: Psionic Tornado Radiation Blast: Electron Haze (tiny chance but it's there and it's KB) Sonic Attack: Shockwave Devices: Trip Mine, Time Bomb (lol) Electricity Manipulation: Thunder Strike, Force of Thunder Flame Mastery (Various): Bonfire, Rise of the Phoenix Force Mastery: Repulsion Field, Repulsion Bomb Munitions Mastery: LRM Rocket Fire Control: Bonfire Gravity Control: Wormhole, Singularity Illusion Control: Phantom Army / Phantasm can cause KB randomly iirc? Force Field: Repulsion Field, Repulsion Bomb Kinetics: Repel Sonic Resonance: Sonic Repulsion (Extra troll since you cast it on somebody!) Storm Summoning: Gale, Hurricane, Thunder Clap, Tornado, Lightning Storm (On here as it deals KB to a RANDOM single target) Traps: Trip Mine, Time Bomb/Detonator Leviathan Mastery (Various): Water Spout Mace Mastery (Various): Mace Beam Volley, Disruptor Blast Primal Forces/Energy Mastery (Various): Energy Torrent Psionic Mastery: Psionic Tornado Electricity Mastery: Thunder Strike Claws: Shockwave Electrical Melee: Thunder Clap Kinetic Melee: Repulsing Torrent Body Mastery: Energy Torrent Darkness Mastery: Torrent Super Strength: Hand Clap Mercenaries: Commando has several AoE knocks, M30 Grenade Robotics: Assault Bot missiles, Various Bot attacks Thugs: Bruiser Hand Clap Peacebringers: Various I think that about covers it... Yellow highlights are sets where I feel there is a legit "tax" of sorts where you gotta control the KB for multiple powers. Orange + Italics I really have no EXP on. Several areas with multiple KB powers were not highlighted as one of the KB powers is very often skipped (RotP, Force Of Thunder/Thunder Clap, Time Bomb, etc) and is essentially a non-issue. So from this, it seems that sets with AoE KB generally just have 1 power, making the conversion to KD often not that big a deal... and on many of them the conversion is well worth it (Nado/Spout/Claw Shockwave/Bonfire) Edited January 11, 2021 by Galaxy Brain 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doomguide2005 Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 @Galaxy Braina couple small points concerning Storm, afaik there is no KB or KD in Storm's Thunderclap it's purely a Stun (mag 2) effect. And while there is a KB component to Hurricane CoD list it at a 5% chance (I assume that is per target per pulse of the power.) Most of the effect is in the powers Repel portion. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Galaxy Brain Posted January 11, 2021 Share Posted January 11, 2021 36 minutes ago, Doomguide2005 said: @Galaxy Braina couple small points concerning Storm, afaik there is no KB or KD in Storm's Thunderclap it's purely a Stun (mag 2) effect. And while there is a KB component to Hurricane CoD list it at a 5% chance (I assume that is per target per pulse of the power.) Most of the effect is in the powers Repel portion. Gotcha, I did a lot of this via glancing so I may have saw Thunderclap and thought of Elec Melee hah! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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