Guide to Cost Effectiveness of IOs vs SOs

[Erydanus]

Introduction

Hello everyone, over the weekend there were some contentious arguments about the value of slotting level 25 IOs and I am here to end this discussion. I have performed a cost analysis comparing using SOs from level 22 to level 42; that IOs are good to use at level 50 (really level 47) does not seem to be in doubt so I only did this on level 25 SOs to level 45 SOs.

 

Base Values

Additionally there seems to be some confusion about at which level an IO is "about as good as" an SO and the answer to that is level 25. A level 25 single attribute SO on schedule A (damage, accuracy, heal, etc) is worth 32% vs an SO worth 33%; with ED, anything 3-slotted would be about 92% with level 25 IOs and about 94% with even rated SOs.  IOs with their enhancement split into 2 or 3 are actually more powerful at level 25 but this discussion is about the value of bare minimum generic IO slotting. (Paragon Wiki details relative enhancement values here: https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Enhancements#Relative_Enhancement_Values).

 

In order to do this analysis I created a model build based on a Broadsword/Dark Armor scrapper with hasten, combat jumping, super jump, and the fire epic pool. I noted what enhancements were put in at each level and used a very typical, generic build. Most attacks were 1 acc, 3 damage, 1 end reduction, and 1 recharge for instance. Shields were typically 1 end reduction and 3 defense/resist. Looking at the numbers of the various enhancements the sample build uses I think it's a good sample to base this off. A defender, for example, would probably swap out some damage enhancements for heals, but those are the exact same cost. In the end this is just a "typical character" and not an attempt to exactly pin down every character's costs. The numbers will clearly show the value in general.

 

Methods

When it came to calculating the enhancement costs I looked up the costs of magic SOs on Paragon Wiki and used the 100% store price costs. (https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Magic_Enhancement_Costs) Some contacts sold SOs for inflated prices in the past so you might have actually paid even more at times for these.  For IO costs I used the cost of purchasing the level 25 recipe from the crafting table, the standard crafting cost, and for salvage added 15,000 cost allowance (which is, bluntly, a pretty serious overcompensation because some of the recipes may only use 2 pieces that cost 100 while others may use 3 pieces that routinely do cost 5,000).  Thus this is a worst-case scenario estimate and sort of assumes the market is pinched and someone wants to craft all their IOs right this second and is paying top price to do so.  Also, level 30 IOs cost approximately 25% more to make than level 25 IOs so the entire analysis can still be applied by just ballpark increasing the cost of IOs and will still yield a similar final answer.

 

Additionally I did also calculate the cost of IOs created by someone with the memorization badges. (https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Memorization_Badges) Memo IOs only cost half the normal crafting cost plus they do still use normal salvage. For example, a level 25 Accuracy IO has a recipe cost of 17,400 and a crafting cost of 34,800; allowing for 15,000 in salvage purchase means that I'm using 67,200 as the cost of a regular level 25 IO. The memo price however is 17,400 crafting fee plus 15,000 in salvage for a cost of 32,400.  (The ACTUAL real world cost of that Memo-IO is probably more like 20,000.) I would also like to point out that the relevant memo badges for level 25 are obtained by crafting both level 25 and 30 IOs, about 8 of one and 9 of another for the major categories like accuracy and damage; for niche things like defense debuff and taunt it can be done in much fewer. Thus it is entirely possible to get most of the way to the memo badges by crafting the level 25 IOs for one character and crafting 30s for their future enhancement slots and thus unlocking the ability to outfit your alts for drastically lower price.

 

Results

After doing the analysis the results are as follows:

 

Typical cost to SO a character at level 22: 896,760

Typical cost to IO a character at level 22: 2,111,250, a short term loss of 1.2 million inf.

 

Typical cost to SO a character again at level 27: 1,357,344

Typical cost to add IOs to a character at level 27: 536,400, which is still a short term net loss of about 393,546. HOWEVER it's a pure win for IOs from there.

 

Typical cost to SO a character again at level 32: 1,896,276

Typical cost to add IOs to a character at level 32: 517,650, which is now a net savings of 985,080 compared to buying SOs again. (This # is lower than before because I was adding more end reduction and recharge compared to damage but obviously it's pretty comparable.)

 

Typical cost to SO a character again at level 37: 2,743776

Typical cost to add IOs to a character at level 37: 835,950 (more slots hence the greater cost).  The net savings of using IOs is now 2,892,906

 

Typical cost to SO a character again at level 42: 3,691,008

Typical cost to add IOs to a character at level 42: 791,700. The net savings of using IOs is now 5,792,214.

 

So in summary, while it will cost you approx 2 million to equip IOs at 25, 2.6 mil by 32, the cost of repurchasing SOs is rapidly increasing as your enhancements go up in price and the number of slots increases. As of level 32 you will be definitively saving; by level 42 when you buy level 45 SOs you'll be saving nearly 6 million influence and that's with jacked up IO costs in this calculation.

It gets better.

 

If you have already made the investment of the memorization badges alone, not even calculating a cheap salvage costs day, the numbers are even more staggeringly in favor of IOs. If you have memorized the level 25/30 IO crafting badges, it will only cost you 156,990 more influence at level 22 to use IOs instead of SOs. At each level the savings mounts up: at 30, you will be 941k ahead, at 32 you will be almost 2.6 million ahead, at level 37 you will be almost 5 million ahead and at level 42 you will be EIGHT MILLION INFLUENCE ahead of buying SOs, 8,217,514 to be precise.

 

So in conclusion: start using IOs at level 22 and use them as much as you can because they are an investment that will save you over five million influence on your character, eight million if you've got the memorization badges. Making at least one of your characters a "crafter" is a solid move.

 

The spreadsheet I used to make these calculations is available here: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/e/2PACX-1vR-U05KM8gVHTEqnKFVpO_8SxkiEjKcdx4c3pK3Ihlj83K5tuAff9axJKqE8Kj1QQj7BxDviTOQBmAW/pubhtml

[_NOPE_]

+1 Inf, we need more things like this on here. SCIENCE!

[Papaschtroumpf]

Very nice.

To make sure I understand, even at level,say 32, you are still equipping lvl25 IOs, not 35s in your new slots right?

I tend to buy IOs of the current level so older powers have lower level IOs, but for the memorization badge and cost, it might make sense to stick with lvl25 and SO equivalent for most powers.

[Erydanus]

Right, I did the analysis using just level 25 IOs throughout for consistency. I think if you do some 30s or higher as you level up you will still save a lot. I personally tend to make whatever I have the recipe and salvage for; but assuming you had to buy everything, these are the numbers. Even if you were one of the people who insists they need level 30 IOs at minimum my ballpark take is you'd still be coming out ahead by about 4 1/2 million inf by the mid 40s.

 

[Mr. Vee]

There's also the added savings from dumping the ios in your base for your next alt when you replace them with 50 stuff

[Mjolnerd]

This is going to cause me to re-think... well, a lot. I've been waiting until 35 (or, y'know, 32) to switch to IOs.

 

Man, planning was so much simpler when I was loaded with more Inf than I knew what to do with from several years of play.

 

Thanks for this!

[Papaschtroumpf]

Currently I do lvl 15 IOs in some powers, plus whatever drops, until lvl 30ish, then I switch to frankenslotting in the 30s, then will looking "end game" slotting after 47.

I should run a similar analysis of whether I should in fact use SOs instead until 30.

[Skyhawke]

Thank you for this write up!  I was just thinking today about how to afford to keep up since (like all of us) starting from ground zero with not a lot of influence to work with.  Slot 25 IOs and let it ride sounds good to me.

[Heraclea]

My supergroups operate as a collective.  All yellow or orange salvage. and a good deal of lowbie white salvage. goes in the base.  What is needed and not found there -- and the cataloging system is somewhat haphazard, and involves visiting all of the salvage racks -- will be bought either with MA tickets or with inf at Wentworth's.  At this stage none of the salvage racks are dedicated to Halloween or Christmas event salvage.

 

My crafters have several lowbie recipes memorized and a few mid level ones.  A level 50 can easily make enough to kit out a level 17 or 22 character with generic IOs in an evening.  (And the difference between 25 and 20 generic IOs is almost negligible; a level 20 IO will at minimum be preferable to an equivalent SO, will not expire, and will be placed in a lowbie power.  You can graze the ED cap with three 20s.  And they don't expire.)  Enhancements are passed by the base as well.  I typically don't worry about recycling generic IOs enough to waste respecs or merits to reclaim them.  Making new ones pays off in the end in the form of more memorized recipes at this stage. 

 

Set IO inventions with small or low priority bonuses are used for frankenslotting, especially since the more valuable the set bonus is, the worse its accuracy rating, and accuracy is always a priority for me.  These may be worth it to waste a merit to unhole them.  Or maybe not.  Some of the most useful enhancements -- your Kinetic Combst, your Karma, your Steadfast Protection -- are capped at 40 or lower anyways.  A proc should be taken at the lowest level it is available.  One of the characters I am currently working on is my lowbie TF farmer, who runs the Freedom Phalanx and Striga TFs for merits which may be useful to other characters.  If I kit her out -- and it isn't really needful -- I will do so with all under-40 sets.

[Saikochoro]

Quick question on the memorization badges. I’m wondering if I’m doing something wrong. I think in the OP it stated the memorization badges kick in around after crafting 8 or 9 of a certain IO (might have totally misread that). I have crafted probably 24 accuracy and 24 damage level 25 IOs on my crafter toon and don’t have the recipes memorized.  Is there something in addition to crafting that I need to do to get the badge?  It would definitely make it cheaper to outfit my alts if I get the memorization badges.

[Shellhead]

Quick question on the memorization badges. I’m wondering if I’m doing something wrong. I think in the OP it stated the memorization badges kick in around after crafting 8 or 9 of a certain IO (might have totally misread that). I have crafted probably 24 accuracy and 24 damage level 25 IOs on my crafter toon and don’t have the recipes memorized.  Is there something in addition to crafting that I need to do to get the badge?  It would definitely make it cheaper to outfit my alts if I get the memorization badges.

 

So the invention badges that grant memorization and discounted crafting costs aren't completed by single IO's being crafted, they're usually paired off, and not always in the combos you would think of. Check out this link for the full listing.

[Mjolnerd]

Quick question on the memorization badges. I’m wondering if I’m doing something wrong. I think in the OP it stated the memorization badges kick in around after crafting 8 or 9 of a certain IO (might have totally misread that). I have crafted probably 24 accuracy and 24 damage level 25 IOs on my crafter toon and don’t have the recipes memorized.  Is there something in addition to crafting that I need to do to get the badge?  It would definitely make it cheaper to outfit my alts if I get the memorization badges.

It's a little more complicated than that. Earning a memorization badge requires that you craft a certain number of a certain type of enhancements at certain levels -- with an S, plural. The badge for level 25 Accuracy enhancements (Colonel), for example, requires you to craft 8 level 25 Accuracy (or ToHit Buff) enhancements, and 8 level 30 Accuracy (or ToHit Buff) enhancements, and one additional enhancement of either of those types.

 

ParagonWiki's page should still be good: https://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Memorization_Badges

 

 

[Erydanus]

Yeah I put the Memorization badges link right in my guide. There's very specific requirements but the key point is that level 25 and 30 IOs are grouped together.  As I wrote, "I would also like to point out that the relevant memo badges for level 25 are obtained by crafting both level 25 and 30 IOs, about 8 of one and 9 of another for the major categories like accuracy and damage;" and that's accurate.

 

For accuracy, it and tohit buffs are one category. You have to craft any mix of accuracy and tohit level 25 IOs, quantity 8 minimum; any mix of accuracy and tohit, quantity 8 minimum, and a 9th IO of one of those two. Damage is similarly paired with knockback and you need 8 & 9 of them.

 

Some of the other categories are less demanding. Defense Debuff, TohitDebuff, Confuse, and Taunt are ALL in one category and you only have to make 2 and 2 badges. That's right, if you make 2 level 25 Confuse and 2 level 30 Confuse you'll unlock the recipes for all 4 of those types of IOs at both 25 and 30. Nice right? As an extra bonus, each 25/30 Memo badge (and ONLY this level of them) grants you +2 salvage storage.

 

 

[Rylas]

+1 Inf, we need more things like this on here. SCIENCE!

 

 

Agreed, love seeing researched input on a post. I was already using generic IOs at 25 and up and *knew* they were saving me inf. Now I have proof!

 

Also, with all the respecs we're given as we level, and with the 7 enhancement trays we have, it's possible to recycle your IOs for even more savings.

[Venture]

I have vague recollections of having seen a comparison graph somewhere... watch this space...

 

Edit:

 

A ha!

 

This chart compares the strengths of available enhancement types. It has a few minor flaws, for instance the player level goes up to 55 (obviously impossible), and the chart suggests that a lvl 1 player can get a training enhancement at -3 levels. It also ignores "dropped" enhancements below the level at which you can purchase them because it's designed as a guide for upgrading.

 

[Rylas]

 

[Rylas]

This is going to cause me to re-think... well, a lot. I've been waiting until 35 (or, y'know, 32) to switch to IOs.

 

Man, planning was so much simpler when I was loaded with more Inf than I knew what to do with from several years of play.

 

Thanks for this!

 

I feel your pain. New me (which is to say the older me) keeps trying to live by old me's (that is to say younger me) standard of living in game. But new me doesn't have the leisure time old me had. Or rather, new me just ended up being more responsible. win/lose?

[Erydanus]

I'm not certain I understand the intent of posting that particular graph, Venture, but I think you're trying to dispute my basic premise that level 25 IOs are about as good as SOs. I've seen this type of pushback before and I thought I had briefly explained why I disagreed but let me go into more specifics.

 

I don't consider that graph to disprove my point, at all. (By the way it's already linked to in my post! It's the very first link).  Yes, the value of +3 SOs at 38% is higher than a level 25 IO at 32%, and it takes a level 40 IO to beat it; but I don't think it's logical, practical, or reasonable to compare +3 SOs to IOs. In order for that comparison to be valid you would have to have +3 SOs CONSTANTLY which would mean literally rebuying a complete set every level and merging them with the old SOs so as to have level augmented SOs at all times. Using the baseline or +0 value of 33% for SOs makes more sense as they would normally cycle between 38% and 23%. In fact, if you take the average of all an SOs values as it cycles from +3 to -3 you get this:

 

(23.33+26.66+30.0+ 33.33+35.0+36.66+38.33) / 7 = 31.90%.

 

So ACTUALLY the average value of an SO over its life cycle is less than 32% but we can round up to 32% here; using the baseline value of 33% for SOs might be too generous! But in all seriousness I believe the original devs set level 25 IOs at 32% because they knew that 32% was the average value of an SO. I hope we have now buried the idea that +3 SOs are a reasonable standard of comparison.

 

I'd also like to point out that 3 of any 32%+ enhancement is going to land you in the 92-97% range after ED. While leveling I don't typically get 3 damage in my attacks until the late 30s because I tend to diversify and add damage as I level, but for those of you who prefer to max out 1 power right away, ED is actually another reason to not go for 38% SOs because it's just mostly going to waste. At least, in the leveling process context; at 50 if you're trying hard to get that last 1% eeked out of a power I completely respect that. But for leveling, and saving money so you can go nuts at 50, again the 25 IO at 32% is good enough.

 

Unrelated to this concern about if 25s are really good enough, a few people have already posted or messaged me separately about the struggle to get the money to start kitting themselves with IOs at 25. Here are some suggestions:

 

• orange rarity salvage typically sells for 1 million inf. Though rare you will probably have a couple pieces by 22. Go to the AH and convert that resource to the cash you need to work with.
  
• if you get any set recipes, particularly damage, healing, defense, or resistance, they typically sell pretty well. Not all, some pieces are less desireable or take too much salvage to make. But your typical "something blast accuracy/damage" type recipe will probably go for some pretty significant money. Sell it! You'll get more.
  
• you don't necessarily need a full IO set at 22 but you could start with accuracy in your attacks, a little damage, and fill in the rest of your slots as you make more money. It's been a long time but in Ye Olde Days many of us did not fully SO ourselves at 22 unless we had a bankrolling 50 and we got through ok.
  
• the costs in these calculations include the opportunity costs; that is, if a piece of salvage would sell for 5,000 on the AH and you have it already, I'm still saying it "cost" you that 5,000 to make an IO because you could have sold it. But in terms of the actual influence you need to buy resources and perform the crafting, if you have some items on hand it'll be lower.
  
• you can get generic IO recipes as drops quite commonly and they're often sold on the AH for cheaper than the table cost (but sometimes MORE than the table cost) so be an informed shopper and look up the cost of recipes and hunt for a deal.
  
• remember that time, money, and convenience are interrelated. If you set low bids on the AH well in advance of when you need them you will probably be able to build up a bank of the materials you need before you need them. Though if there's a sudden rush on level 25 IO recipes this week, sorry. ^_^;;;