Sexy Lethal (not smash)!

[arthurh35353]

17 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

If I want more damage I can go with Fire or Energy Melee. If I want more defense then I can go with Broadsword/Katana.

 

I always figured that balance was done on purpose by the devs.

No, this was specifically just damage. Note, this is just to make it underperform less not to outperform other sets or increase damage in all situations. Just against Lethal resistances.

[ninja surprise]

On 3/3/2021 at 2:44 PM, arthurh35353 said:

I thought I had cleared up my thought on it. Basically, a small amount of Lethal (but maybe not Smash) damage is marked unresistable. Maybe 10% to 20% to push the damage versus mobs closer to the other types (Energy, Dark, Fire, Cold, etc) in effectiveness. It would still scale versus level and would be (maybe) lower against Elitebosses and higher.

 

This is to improve Lethal damage sets so they compare in effectiveness against non-lethal power sets.

I'd prefer they buffed it by adding more AoE "splash" damage onto every attack that's a big swing without changing anything else about the attack (end/rech/base dam/etc)

Take Battle Axe for instance. You're swinging a big axe, surrounded by enemies, and only manage to hit one critter every time? Add some splash damage to the 2 or 3 critters standing right next to the target.

BAM, doing a little more damage and Battle Axe is cool again.

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

No, this was specifically just damage. Note, this is just to make it underperform less not to outperform other sets or increase damage in all situations. Just against Lethal resistances.

What I'm saying is that I thought that Broadsword and Katana were supposed to do less damage than other sets by design, via the increased prevalence of Lethal Resistance in enemies, and the balancing factor was that they have Parry.

 

And Assault Rifle is just F-ed because the devs hate Assault Rifle. 😄

[arthurh35353]

43 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

What I'm saying is that I thought that Broadsword and Katana were supposed to do less damage than other sets by design, via the increased prevalence of Lethal Resistance in enemies, and the balancing factor was that they have Parry.

 

And Assault Rifle is just F-ed because the devs hate Assault Rifle. 😄

And dual pistols? Claws?

[Alchemystic]

1 minute ago, arthurh35353 said:

And dual pistols? Claws?

dual pistols has ammo swap for a reason

[Monos King]

Besides dull blades, I'm pretty sure all of the pure lethal sets had some indirect dmg buff. Archery, rifle, and most of the weapons have an innate accuracy bonus right? And claws just attacks the fastest out of everything.  They must've known lethal was going to be disadvantaged and tried to give some thematic compensation. Haven't had much issue with lethal, but there is an argument to be made it wasn't enough to even things out.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Monos King

[PeregrineFalcon]

1 hour ago, arthurh35353 said:

And dual pistols? Claws?

What Tyrannical said about Dual Pistols. And Claws supposedly makes up for the lesser damage with all of the AoE.

 

Actually, you might have a point about Claws.

[arthurh35353]

12 minutes ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

What Tyrannical said about Dual Pistols. And Claws supposedly makes up for the lesser damage with all of the AoE.

 

Actually, you might have a point about Claws.

IIRC, dual pistols is considered sub par because of the longer animations and lethal damage, so it could use some love. Ammo swap just adds some other damage on top of its heavily resisted lethal.

 

And I know archery is hurting.

[Alchemystic]

The animation times for Dual Pistols are being looked into I believe.

 

As for Ammo Swap; it isn't just extra damage, there are secondary effects tied to each Ammo type.

 

And even if that wasn't the case, being able to change your damage type on the fly is pretty valuable on it's own.

[Apparition]

2 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

IIRC, dual pistols is considered sub par because of the longer animations and lethal damage, so it could use some love. Ammo swap just adds some other damage on top of its heavily resisted lethal.

 

And I know archery is hurting.

 

Dual Pistols is #2 in AoE damage out of all ranged sets (behind Fire Blast), and I want to think something like #4 total.  It's fine.  A lot of people just see lethal damage and no snipe, and write it off.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Apparition

[SwitchFade]

To answer some debate...

 

Katana is slightly lower damage, in return for faster attacks and defense in parry.

 

DP has swap ammo and tons of AoE

 

Claws has faster attacks and AoE, resulting in high DPS. This one was actually worked on a great deal, back in the major rework they accidentally uptuned it so much by cutting animations and recharge that it was literally a blender, and could solo a pylon back in the days when that was nearly impossible, it was hilarious.

 

Broadsword is legacy, and does need to be refreshed, but it's balance was brutal t9 and stuns

 

AR is also legacy, and just never got refreshed. It's schtick was also stuns and KB.

 

Everything that had lethal as a component was originally designed with the fact is was resisted more and had other aspects as part of it's make-up. Partially it was for theme, partially for variety.

Edited March 5, 2021 by SwitchFade

[Bill Z Bubba]

12 minutes ago, SwitchFade said:

This one was actually worked on a great deal, back in the major rework they accidentally uptuned it so much by cutting animations and recharge that it was literally a blender, and could solo a pylon back in the days when that was nearly impossible, it was hilarious.

That was a fun couple of days.

Edited March 5, 2021 by Bill Z Bubba

[arthurh35353]

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Katana is slightly lower damage, in return for faster attacks and defense in parry.

So a power that basically means you have to spam it (for less damage) for 'safety' even though it's an attack power.

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

DP has swap ammo and tons of AoE

And yet still ended up pretty low in the blaster level (but over all in the middle because it only sucked on 'average'. For blaster sets, it was #7 and solidly in the middle due to slow animation (after they've already been sped up).

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Claws has faster attacks and AoE, resulting in high DPS. This one was actually worked on a great deal, back in the major rework they accidentally uptuned it so much by cutting animations and recharge that it was literally a blender, and could solo a pylon back in the days when that was nearly impossible, it was hilarious.

I think they had to tune it up so it did well, but it does a bit *too* well compared to non-lethal resistant types.

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

Broadsword is legacy, and does need to be refreshed, but it's balance was brutal t9 and stuns

"Sexy Lethal" is technically a way to refresh it...

2 hours ago, SwitchFade said:

AR is also legacy, and just never got refreshed. It's schtick was also stuns and KB.

I didn't mention it, but Assault Rifle would be a pretty good one for this type of mechanic, where it is boosted in damage against lethal resistance without getting a big bump against everything else (though it probably could use some general love anyways.)

 

Edited March 5, 2021 by arthurh35353

[Galaxy Brain]

Yall forget that battle axe is a set too ;_;

 

Anywho, the convo really does rely on both the enemy and player powers, but I believe that spreadsheet is out of date. I need to redo my current one...

[Apparition]

8 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

And yet still ended up pretty low in the blaster level (but over all in the middle because it only sucked on 'average'. For blaster sets, it was #7 and solidly in the middle due to slow animation (after they've already been sped up).

 

When did being in the middle become "sub par?"  And in AoE, Dual Pistols is not in the middle.  It's just behind Fire Blast.

 

Then again, I am biased because Dual Pistols is my favorite ranged attack set, and no, I don't use more than one damage proc per power.

 

[PeregrineFalcon]

9 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

So a power that basically means you have to spam it (for less damage) for 'safety' even though it's an attack power.

Powers aren't balanced individually, they're balanced as part of the entire set.

 

That's why it's ok that most of Energy Melee is sub-par because Energy Transfer hits like speeding truck. Same with Broadsword and Head Splitter.

 

I think most of the smashing/lethal sets are fine. You're probably right about Archery and Assault Rifle though. They definitely need something.

[Alchemystic]

11 hours ago, arthurh35353 said:

And yet still ended up pretty low in the blaster level (but over all in the middle because it only sucked on 'average'. For blaster sets, it was #7 and solidly in the middle due to slow animation (after they've already been sped up).

 

13 hours ago, Apparition said:

Dual Pistols is #2 in AoE damage out of all ranged sets (behind Fire Blast), and I want to think something like #4 total.  It's fine.  A lot of people just see lethal damage and no snipe, and write it off.

🤔

[aethereal]

1 hour ago, PeregrineFalcon said:

That's why it's ok that most of Energy Melee is sub-par because Energy Transfer hits like speeding truck. Same with Broadsword and Head Splitter.

...What in EM is sub-par?  I mean, the AoE, certainly.  But ET is far from the only good ST attack in Energy Melee.