Homecoming Server Update (May 29th): User Agreement & Policy Updates

[Abraxus]

As I understand it, there is no legal precedent for a company going after players on a "grey area" server.

 

And this is the part that is relevent.

The only one for the end user, really.

 

The end users worried about getting in 'hot water' by 'the man' over playing this game are simply wasting thier own energy.

Stress kills.

 

After 7 years of no game, maybe you could try to understand how some people are anxious that the game could disappear again or they could be banned for some legal loophole?

 

Such is the nature of life my friend.  Things end.  The idea is to enjoy it while you have it, rather than wasting undue worry on how long it could last.  Now that the code is "in the wild", the game will never disappear again.  However, until the legal matters are more clear, anything can happen.  So, play like there is no tomorrow, because sometimes...there isn't.  8)

[jubakumbi]

After 7 years of no game, maybe you could try to understand how some people are anxious that the game could disappear again or they could be banned for some legal loophole?

 

I understand FUD very well, actually.

I am loudly, repeatedly, dragging this FUD out into the light so it can be exterminated.

 

There is no reason to worry as an end user about legal action based on current legel precendents.

 

Understanding they are anxious is the whole reason I post what I post.

 

There is no reason to be anxious.

Anyone spreading reasons is spreading FUD - they have no case law, nothing, to show where there has ever been a 'crackdown' on end users of a game in this state.

 

No legal precendent = no reason for end users to worry.

 

The game _cannot disappear_, the code is in the wild.

[Teikiatsu]

After 7 years of no game, maybe you could try to understand how some people are anxious that the game could disappear again or they could be banned for some legal loophole?

 

No legal precendent = no reason for end users to worry.

 

The game _cannot disappear_, the code is in the wild.

 

The anxiety is not about losing 'the game', so much as losing access to 'the servers'

[justicebeliever]

 

Hypothetically I'm asking an absurd question about an absurd regulation, which seems to assume that I as a parent can't hypothetically keep tabs on what my hypothetical child is doing.

 

Not sure where complying with Federal Law is somehow Homecoming's attempt to parent your child?  Am I missing something?

 

To start with, please bear in mind I'm being sarcastic and facetious.  I'm trying to point out the absurd with absurdity.

 

From what I can tell the whole point of COPPA appears to be preventing kids from sharing their information online and keeping them away from cyber-predators.  What I am trying to point out in my question, and seems to have been lost in the weeds, is that the User Agreement is telling me that by pressing 'Accept' I am supposed to keep any child under my roof who is less than 13 years old from looking at my monitor while I play a video game.

 

I'm trying to point out that there seems to be a disconnect between the lawyer who wrote the UA and the people who play the game who have kids.  It also appears to be an over-reach from what the COPPA is intended for.  My son, playing LEGOs on the floor behind me, is not going to be sharing his personal information through the monitor with people in CoH.

 

That one section you are referring to - I skipped over it earlier...It does seem strangely out of place in this document and overkill for COPPA. 

 

Regardless, this isn't about Homecoming taking legal action against you - it's about them ensuring you don't take legal action against them.  That's what all these protections are for - protecting them from us, not the other way around.

 

Clearly, no one is going to know if your child is watching the game or not.

[jubakumbi]

The anxiety is not about losing 'the game', so much as losing access to 'the servers'

 

Well, I use 'medication' for that kind of anxiety.

 

There is no crystal ball.

 

No one on these forums or the remainder of the planet can give 'anxious' players answers no on has.

 

If people _choose_ to consume large doses of FUD and be anxious, it _is_ thier choice.

 

I get that some people have anxiety, my wife of 25 years has it bad.

There is no cure going to be found on a game board for that.

[justicebeliever]

After 7 years of no game, maybe you could try to understand how some people are anxious that the game could disappear again or they could be banned for some legal loophole?

 

I understand FUD very well, actually.

I am loudly, repeatedly, dragging this FUD out into the light so it can be exterminated.

 

There is no reason to worry as an end user about legal action based on current legel precendents.

 

Understanding they are anxious is the whole reason I post what I post.

 

There is no reason to be anxious.

Anyone spreading reasons is spreading FUD - they have no case law, nothing, to show where there has ever been a 'crackdown' on end users of a game in this state.

 

No legal precendent = no reason for end users to worry.

 

The game _cannot disappear_, the code is in the wild.

 

I know we've been around on this...

 

I agree 99% that there is no legal risk to end users for playing this game.  Lack of precedent is just a temporary thing.  100% of new legal precedents had 1 thing in common - there was no legal precedent before.  So just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't.  As for actual precedent look at music sharing sites and their end users who were sued for downloading MP3's illegally.  Both the end user and the hosting platform were sued, and many of those cases were won.  No one playing this game has any legal leg to stand on - not Homecoming, not end users.

 

Again, I highly doubt that NCSoft is going to go the way of the music industry of the 2000's, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking this is 100% risk free

 

And as for the game disappearing, there is a large portion of the community who is coming to play this specifically because it is out in the open.  Despite being murky legally, it's public, it's supported, and it's huge (relatively speaking).  Knock out those 3 things and it's going to cease to be an option for many (not all) people. 

 

So the code won't disappear, but having a large population on fully supported and relatively cost free servers, with updates, could.  Additionally hosting your own illegal private server does have legal precedent against, and lots of it...

 

I agree there is a lot of FUD - not trying to add to it, but no one should play the game with blinders on...

 

TL;DR - There is extremely little legal risk to end users playing on Homecoming, but it not 100% risk free

[jubakumbi]

I agree there is a lot of FUD - not trying to add to it, but no one should play the game with blinders on...

 

Totally agree.

I simply think that playing with angst is not good playtime. :)

 

The probablity of end users getting hit is so tiny as to be virtually immesurable, IMO, as a 30 year software developer for the finanical sector.

Sure, it is non-zero, just like the chance of an earth killing asteroid hittin in my lifetime.

None of this is without precedent, this is not the first MMO to have this happen, not even the first NCSoft one, I think.

 

I also realize that every ten minutes, a few more people discover these servers and the merry go round restarts again. :)

I have seen people post on reddit that one of the servers was issued a C&D and that never happened, so the FUD is still very thick.

 

What, IMO, many of the posters here and elsewhere don't seem to 'get' is that even mentioning these things terrifies some people.

The thing is, some people are just scared of life and no matter what we talk about, someone will get offended/put out/bummed.

 

Nothing in life is certain, definatly not the fate of characters in a virtual world.

[justicebeliever]

I agree there is a lot of FUD - not trying to add to it, but no one should play the game with blinders on...

 

Totally agree.

I simply think that playing with angst is not good playtime. :)

 

The probablity of end users getting hit is so tiny as to be virtually immesurable, IMO, as a 30 year software developer for the finanical sector.

Sure, it is non-zero, just like the chance of an earth killing asteroid hittin in my lifetime.

None of this is without precedent, this is not the first MMO to have this happen, not even the first NCSoft one, I think.

 

I also realize that every ten minutes, a few more people discover these servers and the merry go round restarts again. :)

I have seen people post on reddit that one of the servers was issued a C&D and that never happened, so the FUD is still very thick.

 

What, IMO, many of the posters here and elsewhere don't seem to 'get' is that even mentioning these things terrifies some people.

The thing is, some people are just scared of life and no matter what we talk about, someone will get offended/put out/bummed.

 

Nothing in life is certain, definatly not the fate of characters in a virtual world.

 

I agree, playing with angst sucks.  Lord knows, I have plenty of it.  And I agree there is a lot of "stir the pot out there" to blow things out of proportion and get everyone spun up. 

 

For me personally, I'd rather know the risks going in, and make my own judgement call, but maybe I am being naive.

 

Anyhow, +1 Inf for the kind reply!

[Teikiatsu]

That one section you are referring to - I skipped over it earlier...It does seem strangely out of place in this document and overkill for COPPA.  [1]

 

Regardless, this isn't about Homecoming taking legal action against you - it's about them ensuring you don't take legal action against them.  That's what all these protections are for - protecting them from us, not the other way around. [3]

 

Clearly, no one is going to know if your child is watching the game or not. [2]

 

1 - I know, right?

 

2 - I dunno man, these days it's hard to tell what is snooping on us...

 

3 - This is what I wanted to read, thanks :)

[justicebeliever]

 

Bluntly, a lot of the calls for "transparency" are to stir drama up and cry how things "aren't being done" just because they are not happening fast enough. No, they're not going to give you daily updates on how every single aspect of the LLC is run. They got better things to do with their time, like actually run the servers.

 

A lot of posters who complain about "transparency" are just trying to hold Homecoming to impossible standards to seed FUD (fear, uncertainty and doubt) on players.

 

If you don't like that Homecoming LLC is running the servers as a professional operation which requires them to comply with applicable laws, there are other servers out there that don't care and will happily violate COPPA in order to avoid having an EULA.

 

Disclaimer: again, I am not part of Homecoming LLC. This is just common sense.

 

I am not asking for each and every transaction that goes on every day.  What I am asking is that they keep their promise to update us as they originally promised.  Each thing that has been done lessens my trust in the team running this server.  You are trying to make something legal while doing something illegal. I don’t want this to be run by NCSoft again and it appears that is exactly where it is headed. I have said my piece. No point arguing with those who can’t see the whole picture.

 

It’s disingenuous for you to claim others aren’t seeing the whole picture if you yourself aren’t willing to see the whole picture either. Things take time regardless of whether you want them to or not. The fact that it has come this far already with a group of volunteers is outstanding. They will update when appropriate.

 

I found the site they formed their LLC on. They COULD have set up the non profit first then wait on tax exemption, but that wasn’t done. They went strait for profit, which seems to me they are trying to profit off a game that was hidden from us for over 7 years.  They could act like a non profit and post their receipts and balances, but they don’t.  I have done research into the server site the posted and the math doesn’t match. I am sure most of you try to make well informed decisions in life, but so many seem blinded by the fact that the game is back. 

 

The most untrustworthy thing, that i cannot understand, besides covering up expenditures, is the fact they have allowed the same person who lied to us for 7 years be allowed to be part of the team running the server in any capacity.  I was waiting to play after the whole BREE nonsense, but the fact he’s here means I won’t play here.

 

Upfront:  I am a big fan of Homecoming and the work they have done to bring us back our city.  I know this is a volunteer operation, and I appreciate that everyone involved:

a.) Has other things going on in their life

b.) Is risking legal exposure just by participating

 

Also, not expecting full transparency.  I don't necessarily want to know how the sausage is made, and full transparency takes time away from maintain and improving the game.

 

I will say however that Whythalie is correct.  For reasons I can't fathom, Homecoming Servers LLC was NOT setup as a non-profit, which is typically done at the same time that you incorporate.  Part of the incorporation process is defining the type of corporation you are, and Homecoming Servers LLC is setup as a general type, which is specifically, not a non-profit.

 

Could be that someone made a mistake in the paperwork, but nonetheless, it is odd.

 

Now what does take time (I've done it twice, and it sucked) is getting tax-exempt status for a non-profit.  But they can't even start on that, because they are not a non-profit to begin with.

 

I'm not crying foul play, but just saying that it is odd, and more-so, since Homecoming has told us they are going in direction that is not reflected in the state where they incorporated.

 

Some transparency would be nice, especially if people are donating their money.

[OmegaX123]

The most untrustworthy thing, that i cannot understand, besides covering up expenditures, is the fact they have allowed the same person who lied to us for 7 years be allowed to be part of the team running the server in any capacity.  I was waiting to play after the whole BREE nonsense, but the fact he’s here means I won’t play here.

Leandro (whom I assume you're referring to) has repeatedly stated, in this very thread, that neither he not any members of the S.C.o.R.E. team (the aforementioned 'person(s) who lied to us for 7 years') are part of the Homecoming LLC (the aforementioned 'team running the servers'). They're either just playing, or in some cases working on backend code stuff, nothing to do with the servers themselves.

[MunkiLord]

I agree 99% that there is no legal risk to end users for playing this game.  Lack of precedent is just a temporary thing.  100% of new legal precedents had 1 thing in common - there was no legal precedent before.  So just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't.  As for actual precedent look at music sharing sites and their end users who were sued for downloading MP3's illegally.  Both the end user and the hosting platform were sued, and many of those cases were won.  No one playing this game has any legal leg to stand on - not Homecoming, not end users.

 

Again, I highly doubt that NCSoft is going to go the way of the music industry of the 2000's, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking this is 100% risk free

 

And as for the game disappearing, there is a large portion of the community who is coming to play this specifically because it is out in the open.  Despite being murky legally, it's public, it's supported, and it's huge (relatively speaking).  Knock out those 3 things and it's going to cease to be an option for many (not all) people. 

 

So the code won't disappear, but having a large population on fully supported and relatively cost free servers, with updates, could.  Additionally hosting your own illegal private server does have legal precedent against, and lots of it...

 

I agree there is a lot of FUD - not trying to add to it, but no one should play the game with blinders on...

 

TL;DR - There is extremely little legal risk to end users playing on Homecoming, but it not 100% risk free

 

Those people that were sued by record labels were participating in file sharing. So the uploading of the content is what got them sued for copyright infringement, not the downloading. It's just that in file sharing they happen to be one in the same.

[Fortuneteller]

This thread contains way way too many knee-jerk reactions and unfounded claims..

[Dr. Gemini]

I agree 99% that there is no legal risk to end users for playing this game.  Lack of precedent is just a temporary thing.  100% of new legal precedents had 1 thing in common - there was no legal precedent before.  So just because something hasn't happened before doesn't mean it can't.  As for actual precedent look at music sharing sites and their end users who were sued for downloading MP3's illegally.  Both the end user and the hosting platform were sued, and many of those cases were won.  No one playing this game has any legal leg to stand on - not Homecoming, not end users.

 

Again, I highly doubt that NCSoft is going to go the way of the music industry of the 2000's, but let's not fool ourselves into thinking this is 100% risk free

 

And as for the game disappearing, there is a large portion of the community who is coming to play this specifically because it is out in the open.  Despite being murky legally, it's public, it's supported, and it's huge (relatively speaking).  Knock out those 3 things and it's going to cease to be an option for many (not all) people. 

 

So the code won't disappear, but having a large population on fully supported and relatively cost free servers, with updates, could.  Additionally hosting your own illegal private server does have legal precedent against, and lots of it...

 

I agree there is a lot of FUD - not trying to add to it, but no one should play the game with blinders on...

 

TL;DR - There is extremely little legal risk to end users playing on Homecoming, but it not 100% risk free

 

Those people that were sued by record labels were participating in file sharing. So the uploading of the content is what got them sued for copyright infringement, not the downloading. It's just that in file sharing they happen to be one in the same.

 

Not to mention that they quit going after people 10 years ago. They lost as many of the suits as they won, and most of the "wins" were actually people who settled rather than going to trial. Not likely that any entity is going to go that route because the expense far outweighs the gain.

[Wild Claw]

 

I will say however that Whythalie is correct.  For reasons I can't fathom, Homecoming Servers LLC was NOT setup as a non-profit, which is typically done at the same time that you incorporate.  Part of the incorporation process is defining the type of corporation you are, and Homecoming Servers LLC is setup as a general type, which is specifically, not a non-profit.

 

Could be that someone made a mistake in the paperwork, but nonetheless, it is odd.

 

Now what does take time (I've done it twice, and it sucked) is getting tax-exempt status for a non-profit.  But they can't even start on that, because they are not a non-profit to begin with.

 

I'm not crying foul play, but just saying that it is odd, and more-so, since Homecoming has told us they are going in direction that is not reflected in the state where they incorporated.

 

Some transparency would be nice, especially if people are donating their money.

 

Having been on the 'board' of a fan-based org that formed a non-profit in Canada, I might be able to shed some light. But since I'm not in this particular group, take it with a large grain of salt.

 

Forming a non-profit isn't straightforward, as different countries/provinces/states all have different rules, many of which are internally contradictory and seemingly deliberately confusing. If you are not of a legal bent, it's easy to get lost and misled on how to go about setting one up as often the directing agency involved will have multiple locations for the rules and those different locations will have different versions. There are sites that will automatically generate the documentation you need to file for LLC and non-profit status, but what they generate is often reams of non-helpful gobbledegook that doesn't actually apply to your specific situation. And getting ahold of actual lawyer with experience in non-profit incorporation that is willing to work on-the-cheap for this kind of operation is going to be... tricky. :)

 

If you're the obsessive type (and let's be honest here, the only people who would go through this amount of effort to set up a public rogue server farm for a 10+year old obsolete MMORG are going to be obsessive types), there are dozens of bizarre rat-holes that you can get caught up in and get lost on.

 

And, of course, once you've done it wrong, it's often very costly to undo.

 

I'm somewhat surprised that they didn't set up the company in Canada, given the majority of the servers are now there, but they probably didn't plan on that move until after they had decided where to incorporate. They wouldn't have needed to worry about COPPA then as well. Of course, the rules I'm familiar with are that the board of directors (or whatever they will be called), has to have at least one person with Canadian residency, and I have no idea where any of the Homecoming people live. Setting up corporations in foreign countries involves a whole lot of additional insane rules.

 

[Leandro]

So...  I get the need for some kind of ToS, but is there a reason we need to accept them on every single login?

 

I'd like to see an answer to this as well.  I've seen other MMOs which required you to re-accept the EULA whenever they pushed a client update or when the text of the EULA changed, but never one which required you to re-accept it every single time you start the client, even if nothing has changed since the last time you accepted it.

 

I literally just re-enabled the EULA handling code that COH had for years. ShouldShowEULA() in uiLogin.c if you want to check the source at OuroDev.

[Lunchmoney]

is this legally binding for us players?

As much as any other EULA.

[MunkiLord]

 

I found the site they formed their LLC on. They COULD have set up the non profit first then wait on tax exemption, but that wasn’t done. They went strait for profit, which seems to me they are trying to profit off a game that was hidden from us for over 7 years.  They could act like a non profit and post their receipts and balances, but they don’t.  I have done research into the server site the posted and the math doesn’t match. I am sure most of you try to make well informed decisions in life, but so many seem blinded by the fact that the game is back. 

 

The most untrustworthy thing, that i cannot understand, besides covering up expenditures, is the fact they have allowed the same person who lied to us for 7 years be allowed to be part of the team running the server in any capacity.  I was waiting to play after the whole BREE nonsense, but the fact he’s here means I won’t play here.

 

I don't care about any of this. I don't think they're being shady, and if they are, I'm good with it. Because the specific dishonest actions you think they might be doing is something I'm willing to overlook since I'm getting something out of it(playing CoH). To summarize, I'm not worried about your FUD.

[nDervish]

So...  I get the need for some kind of ToS, but is there a reason we need to accept them on every single login?

 

I'd like to see an answer to this as well.  I've seen other MMOs which required you to re-accept the EULA whenever they pushed a client update or when the text of the EULA changed, but never one which required you to re-accept it every single time you start the client, even if nothing has changed since the last time you accepted it.

 

I literally just re-enabled the EULA handling code that COH had for years. ShouldShowEULA() in uiLogin.c if you want to check the source at OuroDev.

 

Huh, ok.  Strange.  Maybe my memory's just foggy (it has been some years since the NCSoft days), but I don't remember City giving me the EULA on every login back in the day.

[Healix]

Me either. I remember agreeing to it when I first created my account (or I wouldn't have been able to play) but not every time I logged in.

[Mandrake]

Yes but how do you know that. Their still running under an LLC which is for profit legally. Non-Profit are simple to make in delware. As far as I'm aware you can use an automate process to do so.

 

They've already addressed this several times over. They set it up temporarily as an LLC, because it takes time to then get approved as a 501(c or sub-whatever is best) non-profit. You have to start there. Otherwise you're in limbo for as long as a few months, hopefully just weeks. That at least separates it from one individual just waiting in the wings, which could be taken as much more suspicious than an LLC that has paperwork filed for non-profit.

 

Being a registrar - I don't know who you've been talking to in Delaware, but just look it up on any website if you don't believe me... Delaware doesn’t allow individuals to file the certificate of incorporation online, and it can take several weeks for the state to respond. Delaware is one of only several states that REQUIRE you to use and MAINTAIN a registered agent. Shorthand: Delaware requires you to use a lobbied group of people that want your money first, and on a continuing basis to even get a non-profit going. If you want one setup super fast, well then sure - you can spend an extra $1000.00 the last time I checked, and get it in a few days instead of weeks. Not something I think these people should have to do.

 

Honestly though, can we just play the game? If you are suspicious, don't like something, etc. - then just don't play it. Am I missing something somewhere?

 

 

 

 

 

[Wild Claw]

So...  I get the need for some kind of ToS, but is there a reason we need to accept them on every single login?

 

I'd like to see an answer to this as well.  I've seen other MMOs which required you to re-accept the EULA whenever they pushed a client update or when the text of the EULA changed, but never one which required you to re-accept it every single time you start the client, even if nothing has changed since the last time you accepted it.

 

I literally just re-enabled the EULA handling code that COH had for years. ShouldShowEULA() in uiLogin.c if you want to check the source at OuroDev.

 

Is it possible that tequila is interfering with saving or retrieving the flag that indicates that the EULA has been accepted?

[justicebeliever]

They've already addressed this several times over. They set it up temporarily as an LLC, because it takes time to then get approved as a 501(c or sub-whatever is best) non-profit. You have to start there. Otherwise you're in limbo for as long as a few months, hopefully just weeks. That at least separates it from one individual just waiting in the wings, which could be taken as much more suspicious than an LLC that has paperwork filed for non-profit.

 

Being a registrar - I don't know who you've been talking to in Delaware, but just look it up on any website if you don't believe me... Delaware doesn’t allow individuals to file the certificate of incorporation online, and it can take several weeks for the state to respond. Delaware is one of only several states that REQUIRE you to use and MAINTAIN a registered agent. Shorthand: Delaware requires you to use a lobbied group of people that want your money first, and on a continuing basis to even get a non-profit going. If you want one setup super fast, well then sure - you can spend an extra $1000.00 the last time I checked, and get it in a few days instead of weeks. Not something I think these people should have to do.

 

Honestly though, can we just play the game? If you are suspicious, don't like something, etc. - then just don't play it. Am I missing something somewhere?

 

As I said earlier when I posted on this, I'm not trying to call Homecoming out.  I'm playing everyday on Homecoming's servers, happily accepting the EULA and loving the updates.  I appreciate all the time and risk that the volunteers have put in on this.  After posting this, I will go back to playing today.

 

However, some posters pointed out this anomaly and we shouldn't trash them when they are correct.  (We can trash people for their tone, attitude, etc - but in this case they have their facts straight).

 

• Fact - According to their EULA - https://forums.homecomingservers.com/user-agreement/, they are Homecoming Servers LLC, a Delaware Limited Liability Company (filing number 7407345)
  
• Fact - You an locate their incorporation information online - https://icis.corp.delaware.gov/Ecorp/EntitySearch/NameSearch.aspx - lookup by their name or filing number
  
• Fact - You can see from their registered agent they used an online registration service - https://www.northwestregisteredagent.com/incorporation-service-signup.html
  
• Fact - It costs the same to file as an LLC or Non-Profit on their website.  Either way you are still incorporated.  Either way takes the same amount of time (1-5 days)
  
• Fact - LLC's are mutually exclusive with Non-Profit's in Delaware.  You cannot be both in Delaware.  Other states, yes.  Not Delaware
  
• Fact - You can create non-profit separately and have the director/member of the non-profit be an LLC.  But that would still require incorporating a non-profit in Delaware
  
• Fact - Getting Tax Exempt status (their stated reason for becoming an LLC), does take several months
  
• Fact - Delaware LLC's can't be tax-exempt, since they are non-profits, only a non-profit can be
  
• Fact - Homecoming LLC, which is not, and will never be, a non-profit is collecting funds, which puts both the donor and Homecoming at risk
  

 

Now there are 4 conclusions we can draw-

[*]Mistakes were made - Homecoming may gotten bad information, or may have accidentally applied for the wrong thing.  Regardless - that is not difficult to admit to this group - we would understand, certainly we've all made them and lots of people have offered their support and help with the costs to correct it

[*]We don't have all the information - this doesn't make the facts wrong, just means we aren't privy to some additional knowledge - Maybe they decided against non-profit status for some reason.  Maybe there is a non-profit corp that we don't have name of (but we should, since that is where the donations should flow to)

[*]They are deceiving us.  I can't say how strongly I doubt this to be true, but it is a conclusion one must not discount when they are saying one thing and the facts say another.

[*]Some combination of 1,2, or 3

 

What we cannot conclude is that have been transparent enough in this one area (of how they are set up).  Any as long as they are accepting money from people for any reason, they should be clear about where the money is going and to whom.

 

Hey folks,

 

We have some major news that many of you have been curious about. We’ve been asked time and time again if you’re able to financially contribute to the Homecoming team, and so far the answer has been ‘not yet’ because we wanted to ensure we weren’t putting the server in any unnecessary risk.

 

Today that changes. We’re happy to say that we’ve now set up as an LLC (the first step towards becoming a non-profit) and are in a position to be able to take donations in order to keep the servers online.

 

For full transparency: The money is being handled by a new legal entity, Homecoming Servers LLC (registered in Delaware, file number 7407345), which was set up today. We are currently in the process of transferring all Homecoming-related assets into this new entity.

• $375 filing costs for setting up Homecoming Servers LLC
  

 

Lastly, a few quick points:

• Homecoming Servers LLC is not currently a non-profit as it’s a multi-month process to set one up, but the eventual goal is to convert it into one (as previously mentioned, the entity was set up today)
  
• The primary reason for setting up an LLC is to give us tax protection - if the donations were funneled through an individual, they would be classed as income and as such would be taxable
  
• We will post full receipts of all expenditure at the end of each month

[Mandrake]

What we cannot conclude is that have been transparent enough in this one area (of how they are set up).  Any as long as they are accepting money from people for any reason, they should be clear about where the money is going and to whom.

 

If you aren't going to give them a few weeks to get lined out, I don't know what to tell you. I'm not Trashing anyone for questioning something - I am pointing out when people make ASSUMPTIONS and point them out as a FACT LIST, that they have not researched enough.

 

Fact: You have got your panties in a wad, and you have not researched Delaware well enough.

Fact: You can setup and operate a LLC much faster in Delaware compared to a non-profit. Lookup any number of case histories. It is better to setup a LLC, while you wait for your non-Profit to get setup, approved, and instated. Regardless if you are in a state that you can convert it, or file for a separate entity (which is always better)

Fact: You are conflating the online registration service of an agent-service to the state itself, which does not apply to both types of business models.

Side note: Every single accountant I know, might recommend Delaware for a LLC, but STRONGLY recommend against it for a Non-Profit. for the very reason you must obtain *and retain* a registered agent for the state, and you will pile up costs you would not otherwise have. You should file in the main state of operations. Or a friendly state that does not require an extra Certificate of Authority that costs you more than your initial filing!

Fact: In short - LLC in Delaware for the most part, with a couple of exceptions - great. Non-profits in Delaware - terrible idea compared to a good 20 other states.

Fact: Get over it already. Nobody is trashing anyone - but if you're going to keep on the hype train, other people will point out the factual differences from what you are espousing.

 

I get it, the conspiracy theorists are always worried. They haven't been 1000% as transparent as everyone wants them to be because quite simply, who'da thunk it? While they try to get it all lined out.

 

Anyone who STOPS the donations, rather than let them keep piling in with half-assed promises to keep them for later use? They've got a long way to go for me before I start hanging them up on the conspiracy line. Whatever floats your boat. I'm done with any commentary here. Believe what you want - I've provided way more information here for free than I would during a normal initial consultation. Best of luck!

 

Thanks to the devs and admins who got this going and I'm sorry you have to put up with this stuff while you get it all sorted. I know how much of a pain in the ass it is because I have to setup and dissolve these sorts of small businesses all day every day, and deal with all the different state bologna that goes along with the federal mandates. I rarely even take non-profits because of the hoops. 

 

Take care all,

Mandrake

[OmegaX123]

Anyone who STOPS the donations, rather than let them keep piling in with half-assed promises to keep them for later use? They've got a long way to go for me before I start hanging them up on the conspiracy line.

THIS so much. The fact that they explicitly and deliberately open up donations only for a set amount of time or funds, whichever comes first (as I understand it), and literally shut down the donation link when that is hit, making it literally impossible to donate to them after they hit that point unless you go full stalker-mode and track down the personal PayPal/Patreon/whatever of one of the team members and send them money directly, speaks volumes about their trustworthiness. They're not taking all the money we want to throw at them, they're taking a set amount to cover predicted server-related expenses and a bit for emergency funds, and they're not forcing people to pay in order to play, they're allowing people to help fund the servers if they so choose, and only until a certain funding goal is reached.

EDIT: In short, they're a damn sight better than "Skyrim Together's" team, at the absolute least.