Concealment - confused on the differences in stealth and invisibility

[malleable1]

Can anyone explain the difference between stealth and invisibility.  Stealth says it grants invisibility (at least on the wiki).

Is there a reason to take both Stealth and Infiltration?  Both Misdirection and Phase Shift sound nice, but I don't need Grant Invisibility.  What do people think of these two powers?

 

Thanks,

Mal

[Psyonico]

Stealth grants you enough +Stealth to not be seen by (most) enemies

Infiltration is a Movement power akin to Athletic Run/Ninja Run, however, it also grants some stealth (about half of what Stealth gives)

Grant Invisibility is a click power that grants a teammate enough +Stealth to not be seen by (most) enemies.

[malleable1]

Thanks Psyonico.  Nicely explained.

 

Mal

[brasilgringo]

I'm going to guess that Stealth + a stealth IO in a sprint gives you (near) total invisibility to enemies?

[Psyonico]

As far as I know, the stealth IO would be superfluous, as anything with enough perception to see through stealth will also see through the IO.

 

Basically, stealth alone now gives what stealth+IO used to give.

[siolfir]

11 minutes ago, brasilgringo said:

I'm going to guess that Stealth + a stealth IO in a sprint gives you (near) total invisibility to enemies?

With the change to Stealth in page 2, you don't really need the stealth IO, although you might still want it for Infiltration because the stealth doesn't stack with other sources like Super Speed's 35' PvE stealth does.

 

Old Stealth and current Infiltration was 35', the stealth IO adds another 30' to that for 65'. The new Stealth power has 55' of stealth, which is what the old Invisibility power had. Unless a mob has a +perception power or has a special classification, they have a perception radius between 45' and 54'. Note that Stalkers' Hide is 150' and Superior Invisibility is 200' to deal with snipers and their 149' of perception, and some mobs just ignore any level of stealth entirely (Rikti drones and Knives of Artemis, for example).

 

So just running Stealth, you can walk up to a most mobs and not be seen, and adding the IO doesn't change classifications since it's not enough to get past the 100' threshold for turrets and GMs: it just starts canceling +perception powers for the mobs with a 54' perception radius.

 

Edit: and @Psyonico had a shorter reply while I was writing mine. Oh well, at least I provided some numbers a link to look mob perception numbers up.

Edited May 11, 2021 by siolfir

[Luminara]

9 minutes ago, siolfir said:

some mobs just ignore any level of stealth entirely (Rikti drones and Knives of Artemis, for example)

 

I just finished sneaking through a mission filled with Rikti drones, using stacked Stealth IO (in Sprint) with Infiltration and capping it off with Flash Arrow.  Same thing works on Nemesis snipers (finishing up the Division: Line arc on my Grav/TA, so i had the displeasure of dealing with both kinds of I SEE YOU AND I'M TELLING EVERYONE critter).  So they do have perception limits.

[Doomguide2005]

11 minutes ago, Luminara said:

 

I just finished sneaking through a mission filled with Rikti drones, using stacked Stealth IO (in Sprint) with Infiltration and capping it off with Flash Arrow.  Same thing works on Nemesis snipers (finishing up the Division: Line arc on my Grav/TA, so i had the displeasure of dealing with both kinds of I SEE YOU AND I'M TELLING EVERYONE critter).  So they do have perception limits.

     This^

     As far as I know Drones have standard Perception distance.  That is Minion=45ft, Lt=50ft and Boss, EB, AV/Hero all at 54ft.  That perception can be debuffed.  In @Luminara's case Flash Arrow has a base range of 80ft more than enough to stand openly outside their perception and use Flash Arrow.  Flash Arrow carries a -450ft debuff to perception.  Purple patch applies but it is unresistable if I'm reading CoD v2.0 correctly.  Either way it's more than enough for the target to have trouble seeing their hand in front of their face.  Now Sniper's base perception is 149ft. but Lumi's stealth is, I believe, 30 (IO) + 36 (Infil) leaving our Sniper at 83ft perception.  This tells me Luminara most likely has at least something boosting her range on Flash Arrow as she needs a bit more range to safely stand outside their perception and hit them with Flash Arrow ... and game over.

 

[siolfir]

13 hours ago, Luminara said:

So they do have perception limits.

They do, yes - but the -perception is what allowed you to sneak by them. As @Doomguide2005 said, you just need to be able to get close enough to apply the -perception. But even being at the PvE stealth cap won't let you sneak by them without the -perception, which is why I specifically said they ignore stealth.

 

Snipers don't have any particular ability to bypass stealth, they just have a really high perception radius.

[Lockpick]

I usually get SS and a Stealth IO to get 65' stealth.  I was looking to replace SS with infiltration for non-super characters, but stealth and infiltration do not stack, so it limits my willingness to take the concealment pool.  That just seems weird to me. 

[arcane]

If you’re going to open up the Concealment pool, you might as well take all 3 of the first 3 powers unless you’re already to 5 LotG procs. Greatest concentration of LotG’s per pool in the game 😉

[Ironblade]

3 hours ago, arcane said:

If you’re going to open up the Concealment pool, you might as well take all 3 of the first 3 powers unless you’re already to 5 LotG procs. Greatest concentration of LotG’s per pool in the game 😉

I'll second that.  On characters where I'm trying to max out recharge I'll get the Concealment pool and Maneuvers in Leadership.